Pattern Play of the Day

CreeDo said:
Hmm~ I'll admit I am one of those guys who would probably get down on the 7 and see it as an inside english shot. It's one of those angles I'm so comfortable with, I can usually hit either the thin or full side of the pocket at will. So I'd probably try a full hit, a little inside, mostly top. That sounds complicated but unless I'm wearing Wei Goggles, it looks like pure top and a fat hit should miss the 8. But you'd want a little inside anyway just to be safe.

I do get what you're saying about wrapping around the ball as a position play. That's a good concept. Sometimes we put on our position blinders and ignore perfectly easy routes. That might be what I'm doing when I choose the softish inside english with the 7 rather than the natural stun routes. I'll set it up next time I'm at the pool hall.

Here's another position play that I think overlooked. I think when you're a beginner you see it right away and don't even think of the other options. As you get more advanced you become Fancy Dan™ and zigzag across the table or go 3 rails. Or you settle for one of those angled shots into the far corner, which can be a little scary. Then later you realize there was nothing wrong with the "beginner" option really. Stun to A, low right to B, and even though it's not as straight as some would like you're not gonna miss it. Or at least I'd feel better shooting in this pocket than the opposite corner.

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Nothing wrong with that shot but you could hit the 8 to thick and clip the 9 and end up straight on with the 9 and have no shot but maybe a bank in the side if it doesn't double kiss.

I would be much more comfortable drawing back a bit then going 3 rails with inside english going to centre of table, HUGE area to land in. You could also not draw the 8 enough or stun it by accident and be really screwed again with a bank in the side.

I just try to eliminate the problems that could occur. If I did 3 rails a 100 times I would get out more than I would with just drawing it out.

Blue would be area you could get into with 3 rails inside english. Red would be drawing it out. Way smaller area for red.

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CreeDo said:
Hmm~ I'll admit I am one of those guys who would probably get down on the 7 and see it as an inside english shot. It's one of those angles I'm so comfortable with, I can usually hit either the thin or full side of the pocket at will. So I'd probably try a full hit, a little inside, mostly top. That sounds complicated but unless I'm wearing Wei Goggles, it looks like pure top and a fat hit should miss the 8. But you'd want a little inside anyway just to be safe.
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I play a lot of inside english shots. Over time I've come to realize that it's important to be able to pull them off when you have to, but it's not a good idea to make it a preferred shot.

A friend who is pro level saw me shooting a lot of inside and said "Chris, you're pretty good at that, but there are better ways to get around the table." Over time, missing enough of them on tight tables, I thought I should have made, costing me close matches, I figured he was right. In close matches, the difference between winning and losing might be a couple of unforced errors.

I'm trying to incorporate more natural position routes into my game. That way if I'm not playing great or I'm under a lot of pressure or nervous, I can still get around the table. Under pressure, to me there's nothing more difficult than 1) shooting off the rail 2) shooting jacked up over a ball and 3) shooting small angle cut shots with inside english.

Chris
 
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I like to hit that last 8-ball shot in Gatz's post with plain ol' draw. I've toyed around with how to bring the cue back up the table and found that plain draw works very well.
 
I like the new 3d version of cuetable. Looking at it from this angle, I like the inside english route much better.
inside.png


I feel good about making the shot number one, but mostly, I can both come up short or over run 8 and still be able to get on the 9 without a problem. I also don't think it would take too much inside english to have a decent shot on the 8. I guess the more the better, but at 11:00, I think you are good. I also like inside english shots, but I understand a lot of people dont.

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Gatz: haha I figured that response was coming. Here's why I like mine better, tell me if it makes sense. First, I know clipping the other ball is a disaster so I just make sure that whatever draw or spin I use won't do that.

Let's say for a second you have the control to never clip the ball. Do you really feel safer going 3 rails? With 3 rails you need a lot of force and inside english... tate was just pointing out to me that it shouldn't be a preferred shot. It's not very natural.

You can easily enlarge the playable triangle you drew for me to be as big as the one you gave for inside english. You could extend the upper edge of the triangle all the way to the head spot.

But the reason you don't need to do that is my shot only moves the cue ball 2.5 feet. You'd have to hit it awfully bad to end up on the head spot. So I have a smaller zone (not really) but I also have much less force and distance to achieve that zone. Your 3 rail route moves it... what, 10 feet? And the zigzag's not much better.

I've played routes like that before and sometimes your angle is wider than you want (you end kind of long) or shorter (scratch or unusually sharp angle if your speed's off).

I DO like just holding and shooting it in the far corner instead, if you can hold the ball pretty close to the rail. You can definitely talk me into that.

Make you a deal, I'll try 3 rails with inside 10 times if you try drawing out 10 times. Or maybe we should try both 10 times each. I think you'll like drawing out once you're at the table better than you like it "on paper".
 
I just don't like the shot because I've played enough to see enough people and myself just slightly hit the 9 and screw yourself lol. I also don't want to leave myself a big steep cut angle down the rail or not even get a chance to cut it by under hitting it. I dunno I guess I just see more bad than good with that shot. Atleast insides or buttoms (across the table) or holding it I'm not touching that damn 9ball :grin:. Really so many options you can do on that shot, it's more of a personal preference really.
 
you know I never registered there to try out the 3D cue table but it looks like the bomb. No wonder my laptop was chugging trying to bring it up.

Neil: what if pure top with no inside will beat hitting the 8? And doesn't your short side path look like it can easily end up with no angle (just 3 inches more travel) or even the dreaded slight downhill angle (6-8 inches more)? To make your plan B shot for overrunning, you have to overhit a full foot. But overhitting a little is a very awkward angle that will need a big stroke to move the CB.

also I dunno how perfectly you hit these but it looks sorta like a draw drag, and maybe some outside, rather than strictly stun. What if the hit on the first rail is closer to the OB and you play with the intended speed? You end up very close to the side rail. If you stun a little further away from the line shown you are going uncomfortably near the side and need to get lucky with your speed to fall nicely on the 8.

I guess the short version is: I don't like your shot, at least not as much as Chris' original idea. Both his path and the high inside path look like they end up about parallel to the side rail with the OB. But as masayoshi diagrammed, that just means a fairly natural two rail route that leaves a good (not perfect) 9 ball.
 
Cornerman said:

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Simple, standard pattern.

Hope this helps,

Fred
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I like how you think! :grin:

I think the 2 rail vs 1 rail is dependent on what kind of tables you play on. The tables I play on are all fast 9 foot gold crowns. trying to go 2 rails on that shot would most likely be a drag draw rather than a normal stun shot. A normal stun shot would most definitely overrun the short side. To get an optimal angle going around the 8 to the top left corner, you would have to use a soft draw shot with a lot of outside. I don't like that shot at all. With the 1 rail inside english shot, you have a large margin of error for the shot and it doesn't require much english to get it there. Plus, you can hit it at a fairly decent speed without going too far.
 
TX Poolnut said:
Without looking at anyone's submissions, this is what I think of doing as a 3-ball runout.

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This is the way I'd go, or something close to it. Those of you that are trying to get on that right side of the 8 to shoot it into the same corner as the 7 are taking the risk on the out. Your control has to be spot on. I can guarantee you that no pro would choose that route. Hitting the 7 with the speed it would take to stop the cue ball over there is pretty much asking to miss it. I want to hit that firm enough that there is zero chance for roll off and I'm not going into a shot thinking "If I over run it I still have this other corner" What if you under shoot it? Then you're screwed. Nope, this is the best shot hands down. You're not going to undershoot it and unless you have zero control you surely won't over shoot it. It's natural. And whoever diagrammed the 7 in the corner with inside english coming straight back up table, I want to play you. I know people like to try to show off their "skills" but the inside english shot on this one is just dead wrong.
 
Masayoshi said:
I like how you think! :grin:

I think the 2 rail vs 1 rail is dependent on what kind of tables you play on. The tables I play on are all fast 9 foot gold crowns. trying to go 2 rails on that shot would most likely be a drag draw rather than a normal stun shot. A normal stun shot would most definitely overrun the short side. To get an optimal angle going around the 8 to the top left corner, you would have to use a soft draw shot with a lot of outside. I don't like that shot at all. With the 1 rail inside english shot, you have a large margin of error for the shot and it doesn't require much english to get it there. Plus, you can hit it at a fairly decent speed without going too far.
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You think there is a large margin of error using the 1 rail inside spin shot from this distance and that angle? I'm sorry, I think there is a large margin *FOR* error on that choice.
 
CreeDo...This is jmo, but the way you have this shot diagrammed (with the 8ball 1/2 ball off the rail, and what appears to be a 1/2 ball aim on the 8, from your A position, shooting with low right spin), the CB will more likely scratch in the side, than draw to your "B" position. The close proximity to the rail, with the 8, is what causes this, and I believe that more players would be more successful going cross table, as Gatz diagrammed. The margin of error is much greater. On top of that, you're leaving a much thinner cut necessary on the 9, and many players, shooting the thin cut softly, will miss the 9, due to CIT. If the 8 were a full ball off the rail, I'd go with your plan in a NY second!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

CreeDo said:
Hmm~ I'll admit I am one of those guys who would probably get down on the 7 and see it as an inside english shot. It's one of those angles I'm so comfortable with, I can usually hit either the thin or full side of the pocket at will. So I'd probably try a full hit, a little inside, mostly top. That sounds complicated but unless I'm wearing Wei Goggles, it looks like pure top and a fat hit should miss the 8. But you'd want a little inside anyway just to be safe.

I do get what you're saying about wrapping around the ball as a position play. That's a good concept. Sometimes we put on our position blinders and ignore perfectly easy routes. That might be what I'm doing when I choose the softish inside english with the 7 rather than the natural stun routes. I'll set it up next time I'm at the pool hall.

Here's another position play that I think overlooked. I think when you're a beginner you see it right away and don't even think of the other options. As you get more advanced you become Fancy Dan™ and zigzag across the table or go 3 rails. Or you settle for one of those angled shots into the far corner, which can be a little scary. Then later you realize there was nothing wrong with the "beginner" option really. Stun to A, low right to B, and even though it's not as straight as some would like you're not gonna miss it. Or at least I'd feel better shooting in this pocket than the opposite corner.

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TATE said:
Using the WEI table to diagram you preferred pattern play, what routes would you use to get out here in 9 ball?

What english (if any) would you use?

It may look simple, but getting out here poses it's challenges and there are more than a few options available.

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Chris
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JDB said:
Here was my initial thought prior to looking at the rest of the posts.

First shot, use high, inside english on the 7 to come back on the 8. Use inside english on the 8 to go two rails to the 9.

I couldn't get the WEI table to work, but I think most people will get the idea.
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JDB said:
From a C player perspective, here is what I would try:

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Yep, and that is why you are still a C player. I don't mean that to be offensive either, just a general comment. If you're truly a C player you probably think that loading the ball up with spin is the way to approach shots like this. You would have a higher percentage of getting out from here if you take the angles that the table is giving you. Put a little low outside on this to pocket the 7, go naturally around 2 rails for the 8 in the other corner and then just make the 8 and come straight back up table for the 9. I don't think you will find a pro player on this planet that will tell you that you don't increase your chances of missing the ball using inside. I'm not saying the shot can't be done the way you diagrammed it, it surely can, but it's the lower percentage of the choices available to you.
 
All of you are wrong, there is only one way to do this. You gotta have vision, and determination to win. Not just to win but to humiliate your opponent *and* possibly get laid by every chick in the place. So, take it from Uncle MULLY, this is the only shot.

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You need to use a smidge of outside spin on each shot.....and don't forget to chalk up.
MULLY
 
I'm a little slow on the Wei Wei these days. :o Sorry

I like the KISS method here on shot #1. Keep It Simple Stupid! I would roll in the seven ball with a little high right english. Medium soft stroke will work. All I'm trying to do is get on the far side of the eight ball. I don't really care too much if I'm a little high on it or low, or even straight in. It isn't hard to get from the eight to the nine. I just want to make sure I make the seven and roll up for the eight. All downhill after that. The nine is a big ball to play shape on. Even if you are straight in on the eight, a medium draw shot with right english spins you up table for the nine. Pretty easy draw shot, especially if you're close to the eight.

I like to get out the easiest way possible. Watching Don Watson and Lassiter left a lasting impression on me. Simple pool to the max! No extra effort required.
 
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mullyman said:
All of you are wrong, there is only one way to do this. You gotta have vision, and determination to win. Not just to win but to humiliate your opponent *and* possibly get laid by every chick in the place. So, take it from Uncle MULLY, this is the only shot.

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You need to use a smidge of outside spin on each shot.....and don't forget to chalk up.
MULLY
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You forgot the part of getting your butt kicked for humiliating him.
 
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