Did you really give this alot of thought b4 you posted it ? 5' pockets would accept two balls easily...Really not trying to call u out but we got to keep it real.
Pics of the "Fatboy" Rails and Pockets for TAR 21. Yeah they are a wee bit tight.
- Thread starter JCIN
- Start date
Did you really give this alot of thought b4 you posted it ? 5' pockets would accept two balls easily...Really not trying to call u out but we got to keep it real.
The IPT qualifier I watched at Hard Times was some of the best pool I have ever watched. Maybe even the best. Yes Sigel was there and no he did not win. He even lost several challenge matches. The Ortmann/Orcullo match was superb! Conditions were difficult which made the number of run outs even more astonishing.
It's hard to tell with the angle of the pic and the tape so far from where it should be, but they are over 4.5" minimum, they could be closer to 5 because the angles are cut so wide and it's hard to tell in the pic where the edge of the nipples actually are.
Either way it's a big funnel shaped opening compared to a modern pro cut pocket like you're comparing to in this thread and closer to 5" than the 4" claimed.
I agree, playing on this kind of table is just frustrating tbh
Yes. The WPA (World Pool-Billiard Association) has "WPA Tournament Table & Equipment Specifications." I am ignorant as to whether all WPA-blessed events do, in fact, adhere to these specifications. Here is the portion relevant to this thread.
9. Pocket Openings and Measurements
Only rubber facings of minimum 1/16 [1.5875 mm] to maximum ¼ inch [6.35 mm] thick may be used at pocket jaws. The WPA-preferred maximum thickness for facings is 1/8 inch [3.175 mm]. The facings on both sides of the pockets must be of the same thickness. Facings must be of hard re-enforced rubber glued with strong bond to the cushion and the rail, and adequately fastened to the wood rail liner to prevent shifting. The rubber of the facings should be somewhat harder than that of the cushions.
The pocket openings for pool tables are measured between opposing cushion noses where the direction changes into the pocket (from pointed lip to pointed lip). This is called mouth.
Corner Pocket Mouth: between 4.5 [11.43 cm] and 4.625 inches [11.75 cm]
Side Pocket Mouth: between 5 [12.7 cm] and 5.125 inches [13.0175 cm]
*The mouth of the side pocket is traditionally ½ inch [1.27 cm] wider than
the mouth of the corner pocket.
Vertical Pocket Angle (Back Draft): 12 degrees minimum to15 degrees maximum.
Horizontal Pocket Cut Angle: The angle must be the same on both sides of a pocket entrance. The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the corner pocket entrance must be 142 degrees (+1). The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the side pocket entrance must be 104 degrees (+1).
Shelf: The shelf is measured from the center of the imaginary line that goes from one side of the mouth to the other - where the nose of the cushion changes direction - to the vertical cut of the slate pocket cut. Shelf includes bevel.
Corner Pocket Shelf: between 1 [2.54 cm] and 2 ¼ inches [5.715 cm]
Side Pocket Shelf: between 0 and .375 inches [.9525 cm]
Only rubber facings of minimum 1/16 [1.5875 mm] to maximum ¼ inch [6.35 mm] thick may be used at pocket jaws. The WPA-preferred maximum thickness for facings is 1/8 inch [3.175 mm]. The facings on both sides of the pockets must be of the same thickness. Facings must be of hard re-enforced rubber glued with strong bond to the cushion and the rail, and adequately fastened to the wood rail liner to prevent shifting. The rubber of the facings should be somewhat harder than that of the cushions.
The pocket openings for pool tables are measured between opposing cushion noses where the direction changes into the pocket (from pointed lip to pointed lip). This is called mouth.
Corner Pocket Mouth: between 4.5 [11.43 cm] and 4.625 inches [11.75 cm]
Side Pocket Mouth: between 5 [12.7 cm] and 5.125 inches [13.0175 cm]
*The mouth of the side pocket is traditionally ½ inch [1.27 cm] wider than
the mouth of the corner pocket.
Vertical Pocket Angle (Back Draft): 12 degrees minimum to15 degrees maximum.
Horizontal Pocket Cut Angle: The angle must be the same on both sides of a pocket entrance. The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the corner pocket entrance must be 142 degrees (+1). The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the side pocket entrance must be 104 degrees (+1).
Shelf: The shelf is measured from the center of the imaginary line that goes from one side of the mouth to the other - where the nose of the cushion changes direction - to the vertical cut of the slate pocket cut. Shelf includes bevel.
Corner Pocket Shelf: between 1 [2.54 cm] and 2 ¼ inches [5.715 cm]
Side Pocket Shelf: between 0 and .375 inches [.9525 cm]
this is my 8 foot table with 4 inch pockets, Erics setup looks to be even tighter
Something is very wrong here.
..either your tape measure is wrong....
..or the balls shown here are -one & seven/eighth inches diameter
two regulation pool balls are -four & one/half diameter
are you sure this table is on the right planet?
That is odd isn't it? It's the weird angle... I think.
Either that or it's so cold his balls shrank. :grin:
I tend to think there are psedo standards just because there are two main pro tables most places use, gold crowns and diamonds. Or gold crown knock off's.
It's pretty rare to see a room with other than brunswicks or diamonds these days isn't it? I realize different manufacturers get their tables into some tournaments
but that's got more to do with marketing than anything else being a standard. They should have to come within that range of the most popular tables.
Gold crowns come with either standard or tournament edition pocket sizes, tournament edition fits the WPBA specs above.
Not sure if diamond tables offer larger than tournament pocket sizes, but those two or in that range would be standard, according to most people anyway...
The thing I find odd on those WPBA specs is the variance in shelf depth from 1" to 2.25"? So you could either have more than half a ball sticking out minimum to shoot at or no
ball you can even reach in the corner and both would be acceptable? Man wouldn't that piss off most players if you couldn't even catch a edge of a ball off a cushion?
That would drive me nuts if rail first wasn't even possible on some, but so easily possible on others.
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I talked with Fatboy and we decided it made sense to use his rails for this match since they were ready to go. I want to thank him for letting us use them for this match. One of Alex's stipulations was he wanted TIGHT pockets. These are that but will take a ball down the rail. I have no doubt we will soon hear from the dude who made them and why they are the best rails ever in the history of pool or rails.
Here are a couple pics. Thanks for the loan Eric.
Will this change the line?
About 4.25" pockets. I've played on this this table and it may be the toughest Diamond table in America. IMO perfect for this match between two of the best players in America.
P.S. Look how deep the shelves are! You could hide a ball in there.
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I talked with Fatboy and we decided it made sense to use his rails for this match since they were ready to go. I want to thank him for letting us use them for this match. One of Alex's stipulations was he wanted TIGHT pockets. These are that but will take a ball down the rail. I have no doubt we will soon hear from the dude who made them and why they are the best rails ever in the history of pool or rails.
Here are a couple pics. Thanks for the loan Eric.
Will this change the line?
"Dude", the rails and pockets don't take away anything from what you're promoting, get over yourself. If anything, they ADD to the excitment of this matchup between Alex & Shane, because everyone will actually be able to watch two great players battling it out against each other...and NOT the gaffy table....like when Shane played Earl. One other thing "Dude"...I don't need any help in promoting my skills as a table mechanic, I already have all the work I can handle for the rest of my life.
Glen
And the king of all things pool table has spoken.
4 things come to mind in this thread
1. can people STOP posting the original way oversize pic with the ruler? If you feel the need to post it, save it to your pc, resize it to under 1000 pixels wide, then insert it in your post
2. why does "earl's antics" ©® always get discussed in EVERY thread?
3. if realkingcobra's comment is true (I already have all the work I can handle for the rest of my life), then wouldn't that mean there is no valid reason to need to ever brag again about himself?
4. This is going to be a great matchup!!!
:thumbup:
1. can people STOP posting the original way oversize pic with the ruler? If you feel the need to post it, save it to your pc, resize it to under 1000 pixels wide, then insert it in your post
2. why does "earl's antics" ©® always get discussed in EVERY thread?
3. if realkingcobra's comment is true (I already have all the work I can handle for the rest of my life), then wouldn't that mean there is no valid reason to need to ever brag again about himself?
4. This is going to be a great matchup!!!
:thumbup:
Take your own advice.
If educating the public as to the difference between good work, and bad, between right work, and wrong work, in the efforts of trying to help improve this industry...one customer at a time, is by you as well as others "bragging"...then so be it. But at least there's more people aware today of what's right and wrong about working on pool tables, in homes and pool rooms across this country, as well as some other countries. Nothing thrills me more than when someone asks a table mechanic getting ready to take a customers money for a job they're about to do...."Do you know WHAT you're doing"? How are you going to tighten my pockets, are you going to extend the rails....or just add more facings? What kind of cushions are you going to install on my rails, I want the RIGHT cushions for my table. And, if you "can't do the job right, I'll wait for someone that can"!
Thank you "Red" for all your understanding, and support of this industry, and your willingness to try and make it better for everyone.
By the way, what have YOU done lately to try and help change this industry for the better...get out of bed?
Glen
That pic looks like a Valley bar table with almost no pocket shelf. Not that tuff of a table, sorry :embarrassed2:
That pic looks like a Valley bar table with almost no pocket shelf. Not that tuff of a table, sorry :embarrassed2:
It is a valley and i didn't say it was tuff.
That pic looks like a Valley bar table with almost no pocket shelf. Not that tuff of a table, sorry :embarrassed2:
Totally agree. That 9ball looks like its hanging on for dear life.
Ten years ago I would have thought it wasn't possible, but within the last 5 years I have on 3 occasions played on tables with ~4" pockets that played fabulous. I think two of those were set up by Ernesto, and I don't know who did the work on the third one. The last one I played on had 3 7/8" pockets and I put it to the test by playing 15-ball rotation on it. I was able to run a handful of racks on that table in my practice session, which to me was proof positive that a good mechanic can make a table very tight without taking away a bunch of shots. For those who are concerned that these rails are going to make the table play gaffy, I don't think you have anything to worry about. The guys will have to hit their shots very pure, but that's how the game should be IMO.
Aaron
Aaron
The shelf is what is going to make these pockets tough.
While the average player may complain about pockets like this, I bet Shane and Alex will be pleased. There will be more innings,
but it shouldn't slow them down too much. These guys are just too good to be playing on a sloppy table.
Chris
While the average player may complain about pockets like this, I bet Shane and Alex will be pleased. There will be more innings,
but it shouldn't slow them down too much. These guys are just too good to be playing on a sloppy table.
Chris
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