Poll- All-around....John Schmidt vs Alex Pagulayan

All-around....John Schmidt vs Alex Pagulayan

  • John Schmidt

    Votes: 50 23.8%

  • Alex Pagulayan

    Votes: 160 76.2%
  • Total voters
    210
Problem with John's challenge is not many play both 1 pocket and 14-1. I don't think John would pick 9 ball against Efren, it would be 14.1. Most Euro's it would be 1 pocket. John should offer real games that are played like 8, 9 and 10 ball, even 14.1.

That post would be like Ronnie O'Sullivan saying, I will play anyone in the world 9 ball, 1 pocket or snooker... I pick. Do you think he is the best all around player cause no one would take the bet?

or

Charlie Bryant, I will play anyone 9 ball, 1 pocket, Hardest break or arm wrestling... I pick

In fact, I might put out a challenge here, I will play anyone here, 9 ball, building cabinets, oil painting or darts... I pick... Anyone? Also, I want to be able to set the bet and must see pictures of cabinets you built and pictures painted.
 
Celtic said:
The math in poker is not that demanding. It was harder for the MIT blackjack team to keep track of the odds in each shoe then to convert that level of attention to poker odds. Poker is a relatively simple game, and even when you play proper odds you are also going to have to get lucky because going into alot of 55/45 draws is going to burn you more times then not over the long run.

Part of the reason poker is so popular and has so many people playing it is that anyone actually has a chance to win. Complete morons can go deep in the World Series of Poker if the cards run them right over. Guys who simply play locally and have no real competition experience in poker actually have an outside chance of winning the WSOP main event.

That is the problem this sport has, the top guy in a local league who actually is relatively decent at pool is gonna get drilled in the US-Open against Lee Van Corteza or any of the top pro's that are there, every single time.

Alex can do just fine in poker. Cripe, there are programs you can download and run alongside your poker program that will tell you exactly what the odds of winning a pot are based on your hole cards and the flop, the program will tell you exactly which hands are beating yours and the odds on your hand overtaking those hands on the turn or the river. You basically need to know nothing about the game to play a simple and effective game based on only your cards. The only thing then is to track betting patterns and start changing up your game based on how others play, but TBH that is not really effective online because you cannot read people based on pretty much anything. The time they take to make a bet might be because they are thinking hard about folding, or maybe they were making a bet on another of their 8 tables currently running, or they might have been up getting a coke. This is why most people playing online for their living play alot of tables and simply play their cards, playing tight as hell and hoping that when they hit a good opener they catch the flop and get paid. Over the long run that works and you make money.
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I'd like to touch this subject and I hope I'm not going too far off topic.

I've heard more than a few stories about pool players turning to poker but I've always thought of that like the Hollywood people taking up poker. You know like Shannon Elizabeth and Don Cheadle. I mean does someone honestly think there's a smooth transition from pool to poker? It might be a couple of steps from one table to another but it's a whole different world.

If professional poker was as easy as Celtics post makes it sound my grandmother would be a winning player. Even online poker is very hard. Physically and mentally. Sure you get a theoretical edge with all the gadgets and gimmicks around but when everybody uses them the who's got the edge then?

The math in poker isn't tough. Especially when you get to put some numbers on paper at home and maybe use a calculator. And sure you get a feel for some basic situations so you don't need to calculate anymore. But that's not nearly enough. When you need to do the math in poker you have to actually be able to put your opponent on a range of hands and then execute accurately under pressure as fast as possible without giving anything away. Sounds like you need some talent for that one.

To be able to get away with only playing your cards you would need a rock solid basic strategy tailored for a specific game. Like a 6 player tourney. And play like 20+ of them at the same time. Some people can do it but it's pretty sick.

Seems to me like pool players could benefit from being able to concentrate on the task at hand for extended periods of time. And maybe understanding the long run. But that's just a start.

I have to say I don't have the facts on this AP turning to poker thingie, but I'd suppose he wouldn't settle on being a low stakes online grinder. That's like working at the grocery store. Nothing exciting, nothing fancy. Just a very lonely way to make a hard living. I don't know Pagulayan but the way he seems that's not for him.

Sorry for the long rant. And hello everyone, I'm new here. Pretty messed up my first real post isn't pool related at all.
 
easy-e said:
I don't know what to say to this...
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I agree with that post... just ask my hand, computer and the wall. Mentally I wasn't prepared to lose with pocket A's against pocket A's... Not after just losing to a higher full house and a guy beating my pocket 6's flopping 669... he had pocket 9's and 9 on river.

I didn't have a LCD monitor, I punched it, drove it back into the wall to the point you could almost read serial numbers in the drywall. That glass is real thick! Thats the last online money tournament I played. It physically and mentally beat me.
 
Jason Robichaud said:
I agree with that post... just ask my hand, computer and the wall. Mentally I wasn't prepared to lose with pocket A's against pocket A's... Not after just losing to a higher full house and a guy beating my pocket 6's flopping 669... he had pocket 9's and 9 on river.

I didn't have a LCD monitor, I punched it, drove it back into the wall to the point you could almost read serial numbers in the drywall. That glass is real thick! Thats the last online money tournament I played. It physically and mentally beat me.
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lol...I didn't look at it that way:D.
 
actually

Jason Robichaud said:
Problem with John's challenge is not many play both 1 pocket and 14-1. I don't think John would pick 9 ball against Efren, it would be 14.1. Most Euro's it would be 1 pocket. John should offer real games that are played like 8, 9 and 10 ball, even 14.1.

That post would be like Ronnie O'Sullivan saying, I will play anyone in the world 9 ball, 1 pocket or snooker... I pick. Do you think he is the best all around player cause no one would take the bet?

or

Charlie Bryant, I will play anyone 9 ball, 1 pocket, Hardest break or arm wrestling... I pick

In fact, I might put out a challenge here, I will play anyone here, 9 ball, building cabinets, oil painting or darts... I pick... Anyone? Also, I want to be able to set the bet and must see pictures of cabinets you built and pictures painted.
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my challenge would actually be like you saying you would try anybody in the world at 1 of 3 things at woodworking.


you will build cabinets or tables or wooden sculptures.

they can get anybody in the world and you will try them at one of those things.

the thing you said about darts etc was silly and is nothing like my challenge.
im not really even making a challenge just a statement that i think i can back up.
i met you at usopen ,you seemed cool etc. .

if ive done something to insult you i apologize.
 
john schmidt said:
my challenge would actually be like you saying you would try anybody in the world at 1 of 3 things at woodworking.


you will build cabinets or tables or wooden sculptures.

they can get anybody in the world and you will try them at one of those things.

the thing you said about darts etc was silly and is nothing like my challenge.
im not really even making a challenge just a statement that i think i can back up.
i met you at usopen ,you seemed cool etc. .

if ive done something to insult you i apologize.
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I understand your challenge John. I think it takes a lot of balls to say that, and I am surte you would back it up.
 
hi

SJDinPHX said:
Terry,

I don't post a lot here, cause everything seems to turn flamable, anyways...here goes !

I also don't think I need to elaborate, on how much I respect your opinion. And I certainly think John has played well enough to earn his stripes in the pool world.

But as we all know...tournaments, with ultra short races, do not determine the best player...they only determine who to give the trophy, and the $$$ to.
Even John admitted he caught lightning in a jug at 1P.. (going undefeated at the '09 DCC, in 1P)

I think that there may be a few 14.1 player's that John could be a slight underdog in a long race for the cash.

There are probably half a dozen or so player's, he could be an underdog playing 9/10 ball, and even more at one pocket.

I don't mean this as a slam to John, I just think it is a little presumtious of him, to make a challenge the way he worded it.

Of course he would play Archer one pocket, of course he would play Scott Frost 14.1, and I'm sure he would choose 9/10 ball, or 14.1..as his game of choice for John Brumback, or maybe Shannon Daulton.

The original challenge presented to him, was long races at an "all-around"... for serious $$$$.

I'm sorry, but he lost a little credibility with me, when he turned it into an "I'll pick the game contest"....JMHO

PS I'll play the Beard some one pocket...but not banks. LOL :eek:

SJD
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i lost credibility with you.

well how about ive said ill play all around with any american and 1 guy got up and i played him twice for 15000 each time.

there is probably only a couple guys in usa that could play me those 3 games. as far as the world goes maybe another 5 . im sorry if what i said was cowardly and lost credibilty with you.

actually you lost credibilty with me when you make all the comments about how 14.1 is basically a joke.


14.1, 1hole and rotation games are all equally tough to play.


also when you say tourneys only determine who to give trophy too ,that it doesnt determine anything. well to me thats obviously coming from someone who has never won major tourneys.


i played you 1hole 100 a game 8 years ago.maybe your holding a grudge still.
i barely knew how to play 1hole then
i won 1300 easy ,you were a gentleman and seemed like a nice guy.

you do get annoying though with all your comments on how inferior 14.1 is to 1hole.

they are both great games and if 14.1 was too tough for you to run hundreds at then i understand your disdain for the game.

dont feel bad that 14.1 is too tough for many pros too thats why they wont play me.


for the record i like 1hole as much as other games.
 
BWTadpole said:
I thought I was going to hear some bantering, maybe some intelligent discussion on these two great players of our time. Here's what I've learned from this thread so far...

- 14.1 is a practice game
- 9-Ball is a practice game
- Bashing a pro is all the rage

All sarcasm aside...

- Bartram is all class
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thanks for the nice comment.
 
JS - Good to see you posting.

Good luck on defending your TITLE next month at the DCC. Only a handful of players lay claim to one of those as well.

And like I tell em all - Don't F With The Pinoys
 
bartrum is cool

i got to tell a little story about bartrum.
in coreys tourney in innisbrook chris came up to me and said. john if you dont mind me telling you ive been watching you break dry many times this tourney and heres what i see.

he explained to me that my bad breaking was a result of racking bad and hitting them wrong.

i though that was super cool of chris to try and help me.
i still break like crap but im trying and for him to try and help me speaks volumes about him.


normally when i play somebody for money its because i dont favor the person etc, or they are not my friend.

in his case im going to play him again sometime because hes super polite to play win or lose.

if i lose again to him it will suck but not as bad as it would suck if i lost to a ***** which he is far from.



matter of a fact i think from now on im going to play guys i like for money instead of guys i dont like because its a much nicer experience win or lose.

you chris are a great player and i think when your career is over people including myself will have alot of respect for you.

see you at derby champ
 
thanks bud

watchez said:
JS - Good to see you posting.

Good luck on defending your TITLE next month at the DCC. Only a handful of players lay claim to one of those as well.

And like I tell em all - Don't F With The Pinoys
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ill try my best ,hpefully the pinoys still think its at the other hotel and dont show up lol. later pal
 
john schmidt said:
well how about ive said ill play all around with any american and 1 guy got up and i played him twice for 15000 each time.
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Uh, only 1 guy played the all-around that YOU want to play. You've been offered a chance to play an all-around consisting of one-pocket, 9 or 10-ball and 8-ball and you came up with an excuse to not play. If you're so great then you should be willing to play something that doesn't include 14.1.

john schmidt said:
also when you say tourneys only determine who to give trophy too ,that it doesnt determine anything. well to me thats obviously coming from someone who has never won major tourneys.
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On any given day, anyone can win a tournament. That doesn't take anything away from tournament wins, but it's the truth. Do you honestly believe that because you won the one-pocket event at DCC that you are the, or even one of the, best one-pocket players out there? Here's a list of guys you can play one-pocket against in a good length race or ahead set and see where you stand:

Reyes
Nevel
SVB
Frost
Joyner
Deuel
Daulton
Chohan
Owen
Parica

IN MY OPINION those are the 10 best one-pocket players out there. If I didn't have to worry about supporting a family I would bet my own money on any of those guys against you. I'm sure they can all find backers with deep enough pockets to keep you satisfied though.

john schmidt said:
dont feel bad that 14.1 is too tough for many pros too thats why they wont play me.
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No, John, they won't play because the majority of them realize that 14.1 IS JUST A PRACTICE GAME and nobody wants to play it, that doesn't mean they can't play it. Open a challenge like Nevel and Hatch did for ANY AMERICAN to play you an ahead set of 9 or 10-ball and see what kind of reaction you get.

Now go ahead everyone, rip into me again for stating my opinions.
 
easy-e said:
I don't think they rip into you for your opinion, but for the way you state your opinion.
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Maybe. I'm honest, brutally honest I guess. I refuse to sugarcoat anything just so people will like me or I'll get a little more rep. That's just the way I am and the way I'll always be.
 
john schmidt said:
my challenge would actually be like you saying you would try anybody in the world at 1 of 3 things at woodworking.


you will build cabinets or tables or wooden sculptures.

they can get anybody in the world and you will try them at one of those things.

the thing you said about darts etc was silly and is nothing like my challenge.
im not really even making a challenge just a statement that i think i can back up.
i met you at usopen ,you seemed cool etc. .

if ive done something to insult you i apologize.
Click to expand...

You have done nothing, I'm just real dry on the postings. My point is, I think your challenge eliminates many great players. In the pool world you have a unique set of skills that can be played at a high level. By you challenging anyone in the world, you know how unique it is for someone to be able to play those games at pro speed.

I'm not a kiss ass and say what I mean on here. Sometimes, it is funny other times not so much. I don't step over the line often, when I do, I send a PM and green rep to the person. A few weeks ago I got red rep for posting a link I thought was funny, I sent a PM and some green for crossing the line.

I am no different face to face thats why I use my real name. If you are taking offense shoot over a PM.
 
suprnva said:
If I didn't have to worry about supporting a family I would bet my own money on any of those guys against you. I'm sure they can all find backers with deep enough pockets to keep you satisfied though.
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I've read several posts already where you state this. If you're so sure John would lose, then why don't you bet few grand against him and then take your family on a nice vacation with your winnings.
 
Winston846 said:
I've read several posts already where you state this. If you're so sure John would lose, then why don't you bet few grand against him and then take your family on a nice vacation with your winnings.
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Because it's just my opinion that he will lose. Nothing in this world is a lock. If it was then it wouldn't be GAMBLING. Like I've also said before, if someone I've mentioned plays John or someone accepts his challenge and he doesn't pick 14.1 as the game I will be the first to admit I'm wrong. I bet within my means. If John wants to play and bet a couple hundred a set I would be more then happy to put my own money up as that's what I can afford and still know that my family will have food on the table and a roof over their heads.
 
ok

suprnva said:
Uh, only 1 guy played the all-around that YOU want to play. You've been offered a chance to play an all-around consisting of one-pocket, 9 or 10-ball and 8-ball and you came up with an excuse to not play. If you're so great then you should be willing to play something that doesn't include 14.1.



On any given day, anyone can win a tournament. That doesn't take anything away from tournament wins, but it's the truth. Do you honestly believe that because you won the one-pocket event at DCC that you are the, or even one of the, best one-pocket players out there? Here's a list of guys you can play one-pocket against in a good length race or ahead set and see where you stand:

Reyes
Nevel
SVB
Frost
Joyner
Deuel
Daulton
Chohan
Owen
Parica

IN MY OPINION those are the 10 best one-pocket players out there. If I didn't have to worry about supporting a family I would bet my own money on any of those guys against you. I'm sure they can all find backers with deep enough pockets to keep you satisfied though.



No, John, they won't play because the majority of them realize that 14.1 IS JUST A PRACTICE GAME and nobody wants to play it, that doesn't mean they can't play it. Open a challenge like Nevel and Hatch did for ANY AMERICAN to play you an ahead set of 9 or 10-ball and see what kind of reaction you get.

Now go ahead everyone, rip into me again for stating my opinions.
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larry is a great player and im sure your not a bad guy either.

maybe ill meet you someday supernova and buy you a beer and you will see im just another poolplayer trying to make it in pool. im not the best in the world never said i was,im just trying to make games no biggie.


take care and see you at derby maybe

p.s. ive played many on that list 1hole even for huge money .
 
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