Larry can run in the hundreds. He won the Wisconsin Straight Pool Championships a few times running 100-and-out to win a lot of his matches. He can play 14.1, he just doesn't because IT'S A PRACTICE GAME.
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Poll- All-around....John Schmidt vs Alex Pagulayan
- Thread starter Terry Ardeno
- Start date
Larry can run in the hundreds. He won the Wisconsin Straight Pool Championships a few times running 100-and-out to win a lot of his matches. He can play 14.1, he just doesn't because IT'S A PRACTICE GAME.
The air is cleared
Suprnva,
I appreciate your honest answer. We all respect your right to voice your opinion and yes, you are entitled to that. When you stick something way out there like that, you can expect responses of the same ilk. I disagree with you, you disagree with me. Far as I'm concerned, the air is cleared and back to the forums we head.
For the most part, I do like your posts.
Larry Nevel is very under-rated as a 14.1 player. I remember him winning those Wisconsin State 14.1 championships a decade or more ago, which is not meant as a cut. I wanted to see him step up to the next level and I wish he had entered more major 14.1 championships. I think he would have done good.
His 1 pocket game is exceptional also. He has a great all-around game. Still, it's hard to see John ducking him. Maybe some day they'll hook up.
Suprnva,
I appreciate your honest answer. We all respect your right to voice your opinion and yes, you are entitled to that. When you stick something way out there like that, you can expect responses of the same ilk. I disagree with you, you disagree with me. Far as I'm concerned, the air is cleared and back to the forums we head.
For the most part, I do like your posts.
Larry Nevel is very under-rated as a 14.1 player. I remember him winning those Wisconsin State 14.1 championships a decade or more ago, which is not meant as a cut. I wanted to see him step up to the next level and I wish he had entered more major 14.1 championships. I think he would have done good.
His 1 pocket game is exceptional also. He has a great all-around game. Still, it's hard to see John ducking him. Maybe some day they'll hook up.
The last time the offer was made to John to play Larry an all-around he said that his backer would only let him play big matches in California. The very next month John was playing Kirkwood in MISSIOURI. If John doesn't want to play him because of his temper that's fine, but just say so and doesn't make up other shit. I've asked Bartram a couple times about playing Larry and he's said straight out that he won't play because of Larry's temper. All I had to say to that was fair enough, no worries. Chris was honest and that's what gets respect if you ask me.
I hope I didn't come of as being hostel towards you with my post easy as I'm not trying to, I was just making a point.
I understand. For me, 9-ball is a practice game, serving nothing more than a diversion as a short rack money game. If it were the only game played, I'd take up knitting. :smile:
Agreed Terry. We are cool as far as I'm concerned.
I honestly can't stand 14.1 or 9-ball. 10-ball and one-pocket are my games of choice. Sadly I live in Wisconsin and barbox 9-ball and 8-ball are all we have.
The math in poker is not that demanding. It was harder for the MIT blackjack team to keep track of the odds in each shoe then to convert that level of attention to poker odds. Poker is a relatively simple game, and even when you play proper odds you are also going to have to get lucky because going into alot of 55/45 draws is going to burn you more times then not over the long run.
Part of the reason poker is so popular and has so many people playing it is that anyone actually has a chance to win. Complete morons can go deep in the World Series of Poker if the cards run them right over. Guys who simply play locally and have no real competition experience in poker actually have an outside chance of winning the WSOP main event.
That is the problem this sport has, the top guy in a local league who actually is relatively decent at pool is gonna get drilled in the US-Open against Lee Van Corteza or any of the top pro's that are there, every single time.
Alex can do just fine in poker. Cripe, there are programs you can download and run alongside your poker program that will tell you exactly what the odds of winning a pot are based on your hole cards and the flop, the program will tell you exactly which hands are beating yours and the odds on your hand overtaking those hands on the turn or the river. You basically need to know nothing about the game to play a simple and effective game based on only your cards. The only thing then is to track betting patterns and start changing up your game based on how others play, but TBH that is not really effective online because you cannot read people based on pretty much anything. The time they take to make a bet might be because they are thinking hard about folding, or maybe they were making a bet on another of their 8 tables currently running, or they might have been up getting a coke. This is why most people playing online for their living play alot of tables and simply play their cards, playing tight as hell and hoping that when they hit a good opener they catch the flop and get paid. Over the long run that works and you make money.
I honestly can't stand 14.1 or 9-ball. 10-ball and one-pocket are my games of choice. Sadly I live in Wisconsin and barbox 9-ball and 8-ball are all we have.
Well, we can certainly have a beer over one pocket then. I like that game to.
Umm, I agree with him, does that make me ignorant?
Straight pool was once upon a time THE game. When Greenleaf played, Mosconi's era with Caras, Ponzi, Crane, ect...
Even into the 1970's and early 80's with the Miz, Sigel, Rempe, Varner, ect... I would say the game was still a quasi-important competition game.
Lately? Who plays it? Europeans and Schmidt. Hohmann, Ortmann, Engert, afew of those guys play the game. How much do they play it? I doubt alot because seriously past the World Straight Pool Championship what the heck tournaments are there to compete in? Even those guys are more focused on rotational pool because there are flat out more opportunities to compete in that game, WAY more.
Even Schmidt I am sure would admit this. Most of his straight pool is practice. You cannot get action playing the game, hardly anyone plays it and for those few players that do don't get played. So you get no matches for the cash. Tournaments? One a year. So with no gambling and no tournaments if you are playing the game you are playing it for practice. Maybe setting up a camera and shooting to see if you can string together a high run.
The game is a GREAT practice game. It is pure shooting, relatively fast paced, yet it demands concentration. But it is little more then that in this day and age of pool. You cannot compete in the game, there are no real avenues for it.
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Shuffle up and deal
Alex has been a sophisticated gambler at many games since he was 11.
I don't want pool to lose his talent and sunny disposition but he can make
a million playing poker much quicker than playing pool.He's always pushing the envelope (hence he was known as PaguALLIN ) but a conservative
player never finds where the go/don't go line is.I think this double-sharp
person just might come back to the pool world with a bank-roll.
Ivey,Dwan et al just might recognize a new sheriff.
A philosopher said"empirical knowledge is the only knowledge".
Alex has been a sophisticated gambler at many games since he was 11.
I don't want pool to lose his talent and sunny disposition but he can make
a million playing poker much quicker than playing pool.He's always pushing the envelope (hence he was known as PaguALLIN ) but a conservative
player never finds where the go/don't go line is.I think this double-sharp
person just might come back to the pool world with a bank-roll.
Ivey,Dwan et al just might recognize a new sheriff.
I guess we are both ignorant, because, like I said earlier, I think 9 ball is just a practice game. I spend a great deal of time practicing rotation, but don't care to compete in it.
I get it, and I don't take your post bad at all. Maybe he is afraid Larry will beat him up if he calls him a hot head!
Looks to me like that is laying it on the table
John,
I don't think there are too many on this forum willing to say that they'll play anybody in the world, doesn't matter if they can choose the game or not!
Hu
John,
I don't think there are too many on this forum willing to say that they'll play anybody in the world, doesn't matter if they can choose the game or not!
Hu
Its a credit to Johns overall game that his proposition is so hard to find a worthy contender.
The Efren of 10 years ago might of been a good candidate, obviously he can play one pocket and nine ball pretty good, and he did play some damn good 14.1 in a tourney or two (nice little 141 thrown in there).
None of the Euros have a strong enough one pocket game, none of the Filipinos probably want to play him a long race of 14.1, and no other all-round players from the US can hang with him if he can pick.
Give Alex a month of 14.1 practice and a backer for big dough and this might happen.
How do you feel you match up with Alex in 10-ball or one pocket John?
The Efren of 10 years ago might of been a good candidate, obviously he can play one pocket and nine ball pretty good, and he did play some damn good 14.1 in a tourney or two (nice little 141 thrown in there).
None of the Euros have a strong enough one pocket game, none of the Filipinos probably want to play him a long race of 14.1, and no other all-round players from the US can hang with him if he can pick.
Give Alex a month of 14.1 practice and a backer for big dough and this might happen.
How do you feel you match up with Alex in 10-ball or one pocket John?
Terry,
I'm sure you're right. In fact, John, - my apologies. I was thinking why Alex is tough and went too far.
(btw Im not spoiled either)
A voice from the past...
Terry,
I don't post a lot here, cause everything seems to turn flamable, anyways...here goes !
I also don't think I need to elaborate, on how much I respect your opinion. And I certainly think John has played well enough to earn his stripes in the pool world.
But as we all know...tournaments, with ultra short races, do not determine the best player...they only determine who to give the trophy, and the $$$ to.
Even John admitted he caught lightning in a jug at 1P.. (going undefeated at the '09 DCC, in 1P)
I think that there may be a few 14.1 player's that John could be a slight underdog in a long race for the cash.
There are probably half a dozen or so player's, he could be an underdog playing 9/10 ball, and even more at one pocket.
I don't mean this as a slam to John, I just think it is a little disingenious of him, to make a challenge the way he worded it.
Of course he would play Archer one pocket, of course he would play Scott Frost 14.1, and I'm sure he would choose 9/10 ball, or 14.1..as his game of choice for John Brumback, or maybe Shannon Daulton.
The original challenge presented to him, was long races at an "all-around"... for serious $$$$.
I'm sorry, but he lost a little credibility with me, when he turned it into an "I'll pick the game contest"....JMHO
PS I'll play the Beard some one pocket...but not banks. LOL
SJD
Terry,
I don't post a lot here, cause everything seems to turn flamable, anyways...here goes !
I also don't think I need to elaborate, on how much I respect your opinion. And I certainly think John has played well enough to earn his stripes in the pool world.
But as we all know...tournaments, with ultra short races, do not determine the best player...they only determine who to give the trophy, and the $$$ to.
Even John admitted he caught lightning in a jug at 1P.. (going undefeated at the '09 DCC, in 1P)
I think that there may be a few 14.1 player's that John could be a slight underdog in a long race for the cash.
There are probably half a dozen or so player's, he could be an underdog playing 9/10 ball, and even more at one pocket.
I don't mean this as a slam to John, I just think it is a little disingenious of him, to make a challenge the way he worded it.
Of course he would play Archer one pocket, of course he would play Scott Frost 14.1, and I'm sure he would choose 9/10 ball, or 14.1..as his game of choice for John Brumback, or maybe Shannon Daulton.
The original challenge presented to him, was long races at an "all-around"... for serious $$$$.
I'm sorry, but he lost a little credibility with me, when he turned it into an "I'll pick the game contest"....JMHO
PS I'll play the Beard some one pocket...but not banks. LOL
SJD
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I thought I was going to hear some bantering, maybe some intelligent discussion on these two great players of our time. Here's what I've learned from this thread so far...
- 14.1 is a practice game
- 9-Ball is a practice game
- Bashing a pro is all the rage
All sarcasm aside...
- Bartram is all class
- 14.1 is a practice game
- 9-Ball is a practice game
- Bashing a pro is all the rage
All sarcasm aside...
- Bartram is all class