Pool is dead.

Pool has died

I'm 21 and have been playing pool for 15 yrs. I was just telling myself the other day, hey, I want to figure out what I can do to bring the sport back to life in my town. It's so hard to do it because the game of pool has been associated with drinking as it is in a bar usually. I also live in a relatively small town. The closest pool hall is a hour away or further. I have to drive 30 min. just to play on good equipment. 20 bars in the county and do not have simonis on 1 table. And $0.75 a game isn't worth it. Parents don't want there kids around the pool table because it has been given such a bad rep.
 
I must admit that I've spent my share of time playing video games, and have found some of them to be immensely entertaining. The first time I heard the term "cheat code", though, I became somewhat disenchanted with it all.

There is no "iddqd" in a game of 10-ball. :wink:

Aaron
 
I was there

JAM,

I was there. The older pool players then didn't think it was anything like as good as "the good old days." Twenty, thirty years from now if pool is still around the old players will be talking about the good times and good old days of the early 2000's when the DCC was strong and you could see twenty thousand dollar match-ups between the top players every weekend on the internet. I know the last is an exaggeration but it will be "fact" in twenty of thirty years. For many in the future, these are the good ol' days.

You had to risk life and limb to make it as a road player back then. Although you are more likely to get busted and it revealed who you are, I think overall it is a lot safer to be a road player today. All the danger and risks are a lot more romantic and appealing looking back on them. I remember some being highly entertaining at the time and some stinking pretty bad.

Hu


JAM said:
Pool is dead for most.

Pool is alive for some.

Pool will always a passion for a minute few.

I am reminded of the adage: In the pool world, we've all known a few of them. They're the "Road Players." These are the traveling gunfighters, who know no other way of life than betting it all and hanging on the edge. Most of the greats of today started out this way, but for every one who made it, there are at least a hundred who did not survive.

I am also reminded of one of the great road players, Shake and Bake, who smiled when asked about the old days and spoke warmly of players like Luther Lassiter, Irving Crane, and Jimmy Caras: "I've got a lot of good friends and good memories of a lifestyle that few people are fortunate enough to experience," he says. "I had the luck to know the old greats as well as the new crop of superstars the sport has cultivated."

It may be hard for younger folk to comprehend, but it's the truth. In fact, they will NEVER know what pool was like when it shined brightly in all its glory. They can only read about it on pool forums and imagine, while playing their video games. Sorry, younger folk, if I offended you. LOL.
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poolsnark said:
The bottom line is that sponsor money goes where there is interest. Videogame players get big purses and big sponsorships because they have companies backing them like Dr. Pepper, Intel, AMD, Dell, Microsoft, etc. Pool players get what comes from an industry that relies on small companies for support. Go to the Major League Gaming homepage and you'll see what I mean. Presented by Gamestop, a $3.6 billion dollar company, Powered by XBox (Microsoft), a $177 billion dollar company.

The real issue here is the goal of the industry. For Microsoft, their goal is to get an XBox in every home. They price it competitively (currently 199 bucks) and make it affordable for all income levels. When was the last time you saw anyone in the billiards industry come up with a goal of getting a pool table in every home?

Then there's the elitist attitude of the "players" vs. the "bangers". The casual players are the future of the industry. The more bangers come to play, the bigger the reach of the industry gets. Get a critical mass of people playing pool and homes with pool tables and the sponsors will come. No offense to any of the current sponsors, but the industry isn't going to grow by relying on cuemakers, table makers, online stores and such as title sponsors.

Next time you're in a pool hall and some banger is flailing away, instead of hustling him and making him hate the game and the industry, try playing with him and <gasp> helping him with his game. Next time you see someone playing with an import cue, be happy that they're playing pool instead of crapping on them and their gear. The market for the $100 import cue is way bigger than the market for the $2500 custom cue.

/rant off
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VERY BIG REP TO YOU FOR THIS POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
poolsnark said:
The bottom line is that sponsor money goes where there is interest. Videogame players get big purses and big sponsorships because they have companies backing them like Dr. Pepper, Intel, AMD, Dell, Microsoft, etc. Pool players get what comes from an industry that relies on small companies for support. Go to the Major League Gaming homepage and you'll see what I mean. Presented by Gamestop, a $3.6 billion dollar company, Powered by XBox (Microsoft), a $177 billion dollar company.

The real issue here is the goal of the industry. For Microsoft, their goal is to get an XBox in every home. They price it competitively (currently 199 bucks) and make it affordable for all income levels. When was the last time you saw anyone in the billiards industry come up with a goal of getting a pool table in every home?

Then there's the elitist attitude of the "players" vs. the "bangers". The casual players are the future of the industry. The more bangers come to play, the bigger the reach of the industry gets. Get a critical mass of people playing pool and homes with pool tables and the sponsors will come. No offense to any of the current sponsors, but the industry isn't going to grow by relying on cuemakers, table makers, online stores and such as title sponsors.

Next time you're in a pool hall and some banger is flailing away, instead of hustling him and making him hate the game and the industry, try playing with him and <gasp> helping him with his game. Next time you see someone playing with an import cue, be happy that they're playing pool instead of crapping on them and their gear. The market for the $100 import cue is way bigger than the market for the $2500 custom cue.

/rant off
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Very good point.
 
Hierovision said:
I play computer games. They take extreme skill to be on top and I respect them immensely just like I respect other professionals. It's similar to billiards or table tennis or bowling. You don't have to be in exceptional condition to excel but your brain has to be capable of inhuman reaction and calculation based on years of training and instincts.
It may be hard for the older crowd to comprehend but that's the truth. Sorry older crowd, if I offended you lol :p
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You aren't offending anyone. :) When I was much younger I played very competitive pinball and it took exceptional reaction time and calculation to beat the machines.

Like any game or sport that requires excellent eye-hand coordination, fast twitch muscles, great eyesight and a passion for playing the same game over and over and over will help you to excel at it. :D

Pool, pinball and video games, aren't going to stretch your intelligence but you can still have a lot fun along the way. :D

JoeyA
 
poolsnark said:
The bottom line is that sponsor money goes where there is interest. Videogame players get big purses and big sponsorships because they have companies backing them like Dr. Pepper, Intel, AMD, Dell, Microsoft, etc. Pool players get what comes from an industry that relies on small companies for support. Go to the Major League Gaming homepage and you'll see what I mean. Presented by Gamestop, a $3.6 billion dollar company, Powered by XBox (Microsoft), a $177 billion dollar company.

The real issue here is the goal of the industry. For Microsoft, their goal is to get an XBox in every home. They price it competitively (currently 199 bucks) and make it affordable for all income levels. When was the last time you saw anyone in the billiards industry come up with a goal of getting a pool table in every home?

Then there's the elitist attitude of the "players" vs. the "bangers". The casual players are the future of the industry. The more bangers come to play, the bigger the reach of the industry gets. Get a critical mass of people playing pool and homes with pool tables and the sponsors will come. No offense to any of the current sponsors, but the industry isn't going to grow by relying on cuemakers, table makers, online stores and such as title sponsors.

Next time you're in a pool hall and some banger is flailing away, instead of hustling him and making him hate the game and the industry, try playing with him and <gasp> helping him with his game. Next time you see someone playing with an import cue, be happy that they're playing pool instead of crapping on them and their gear. The market for the $100 import cue is way bigger than the market for the $2500 custom cue.

/rant off
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Rant on, Shill. You are right on the money!

I really like your post.

JoeyA
 
JoeyA said:
You aren't offending anyone. :) When I was much younger I played very competitive pinball and it took exceptional reaction time and calculation to beat the machines.

Like any game or sport that requires excellent eye-hand coordination, fast twitch muscles, great eyesight and a passion for playing the same game over and over and over will help you to excel at it. :D

Pool, pinball and video games, aren't going to stretch your intelligence but you can still have a lot fun along the way. :D

JoeyA
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Why does the damn ball always roll down the geometric center of the alley? How do you beat that? Or, is that the point--- tilting without "TILTING."

I always loved pinball, but my games don't last long at all. Am I missing something?
 
JAM said:
Your generation's world won't ever get it.

When you reach my age, then we'll talk.

I live in the present too, which is why I find your opinions so amusing. Typical of a young whippersnappker who's never experienced pool in its glory, and never will, I might add. Read on, my young AzBilliards member, and keep pulling your joy stick.
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With all due respect, what makes your "old" world so much better than what today is? You may have enjoyed it more than you are enjoying the world today. There's no reason to make it sound like your good old days is the sole standard where every other time in pool should be measured against.

Some might consider today better than times in pool because of the availability of superior equipment, or the globalization of pool in other countries. Some might say it is better when pool is blossoming in the states, or for those purists who think LD shafts are for the weak. IT's fine to have those opinions I guess as long as you're not condescending about it.

30 years from now I'm gonna talk about the "good old days" (which is the present) to younger guys but I will never shut them down and say to them "you make me laugh if you think your world is the shit!" Rather I would tell them a recount about *My Glory days of pool* compared to their days. because really that's what it is. If we play pool for the love of it and for the fun of it, then the glory days is what we make of it, not just a specific period that a single cohort claims it to be.

When it comes down to it, people are just looking to have fun and to have some form of hobby. Back then, perhaps not much else was available but poolhalls so people flock them. Now video games are available and are more convenient to play with than pool so why not?
 
JB Cases said:
Well not really but this is how I felt when I saw this in the New York Times.

I guess Vincent was right.

"DR PEPPER plans to announce on Wednesday that, for the first time, it is promoting a professional athlete on bottles that it will distribute nationally. But the shaggy-haired athlete on the label is not a traditional sports star: he?s a 21-year-old who has a three-year, $250,000 contract to play video games."

When did playing video games become a professional "sport" and when did the players become athletes? I guess it was when ESPN started broadcasting video game tournaments. ESPN, where the Spelling Bee is a sport as well.

Full article: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/business/media/19adco.html?th&emc=th

Just wait.

In 2013 Barry Behrman will only promote the Virtual Pool US Open and first prize will be $500,000 and there will be 20,000 players and since it will be the internet kids under six will be allowed to play.
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Today, Video Games top the Movies (Hollywood) in dollars brought it. Gaming is big business!
 
teedotaj said:
With all due respect, what makes your "old" world so much better than what today is? You may have enjoyed it more than you are enjoying the world today. There's no reason to make it sound like your good old days is the sole standard where every other time in pool should be measured against.

Some might consider today better than times in pool because of the availability of superior equipment, or the globalization of pool in other countries. Some might say it is better when pool is blossoming in the states, or for those purists who think LD shafts are for the weak. IT's fine to have those opinions I guess as long as you're not condescending about it.

30 years from now I'm gonna talk about the "good old days" (which is the present) to younger guys but I will never shut them down and say to them "you make me laugh if you think your world is the shit!" Rather I would tell them a recount about *My Glory days of pool* compared to their days. because really that's what it is. If we play pool for the love of it and for the fun of it, then the glory days is what we make of it, not just a specific period that a single cohort claims it to be.

When it comes down to it, people are just looking to have fun and to have some form of hobby. Back then, perhaps not much else was available but poolhalls so people flock them. Now video games are available and are more convenient to play with than pool so why not?
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I understand your opinion and appreciate you taking the time to respond to me.

I did express my thoughts on this topic to a member of this forum that I have exchanged colloquy with in the past, one who has expressed his opinion about topics that have a similar subject matter as this thread, and so I decided I would respond in kind to that same entity on the public forum in this thread.

That said, I was winning blue keys in Pac-Man before some of the readers of this thread were even born. Do you actually think old people don't understand video games, gamers, and online games?

Online games are not like pool, IMHO. Yes, both are games, so to speak, but I believe there is a difference when it comes to skills set needed to achieve a high level in each.

Personally, if I was to invest my time in online games, I'd be doing it in poker where I could win a little chunk of change. :grin:

Do you think there are more skills needed to play online poker than online games? Are they similar? Are they different? Is playing pool at a high level harder to do than those two, or easier?

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and responding to my words.
 
ShootingArts said:
JAM,

I was there. The older pool players then didn't think it was anything like as good as "the good old days." Twenty, thirty years from now if pool is still around the old players will be talking about the good times and good old days of the early 2000's when the DCC was strong and you could see twenty thousand dollar match-ups between the top players every weekend on the internet. I know the last is an exaggeration but it will be "fact" in twenty of thirty years. For many in the future, these are the good ol' days.

You had to risk life and limb to make it as a road player back then. Although you are more likely to get busted and it revealed who you are, I think overall it is a lot safer to be a road player today. All the danger and risks are a lot more romantic and appealing looking back on them. I remember some being highly entertaining at the time and some stinking pretty bad.

Hu
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this, a million times, this.

The good old days sound pretty romantic when I hear the stories, but the reality is different. I'm not talking about just pool's good old days, this applies to anything. People get older and watch as the world they knew starts to transform into something that is something harder to identify with. So now they go back to when they were younger (their glory days) and how this or that was so much better/easier. All of the bitterness and anger of hard times have dimmed with the passage of years, and all that remains is this sweet romantic story.

Think about high school.

There is nothing wrong with this, I think it is a natural reaction. I am not saying that somebody isn't keeping up with the times, just that memories can be deceptive.

All that being said, in thirty years, I'll be talking about the good old days too.

Pool is not dead, it will get popular again. Publicity will blow up and everybody will be racing out to wherever to play. A strong billiards organization, with a head for appealling to the masses, would be a step in the right direction.

I wonder how the game is going to evolve, will it be like star trek chess? That would be sweet.
 
JAM said:
Wanna bet? :grin:

In China maybe, not in the U.S. :(
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I would stake my life on it.

I don't believe it will be as popular as more mainstream sports, but then again, it probably never was. When virtual pool came out, I got interested in pool. I would play off and on. I played more when virtual pool 3 came out. Those games sparked my interest in the sport. I've played off and on for the past three years, and now I don't ever want to put my stick down.

As long as you have people who enjoy puzzles or challenges you'll have pool players.

ATM, pool is not as big as it used to be in the US, but it will happen again.
 
JAM said:
I understand your opinion and appreciate you taking the time to respond to me.

I did express my thoughts on this topic to a member of this forum that I have exchanged colloquy with in the past, one who has expressed his opinion about topics that have a similar subject matter as this thread, and so I decided I would respond in kind to that same entity on the public forum in this thread.

...

Online games are not like pool, IMHO. Yes, both are games, so to speak, but I believe there is a difference when it comes to skills set needed to achieve a high level in each.

...
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and responding to my words.
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:D In that context, I guess I see the humor in it haha.

However, not that I'm a huge gamer myself, I was actually a deprived child :frown: but there are really complicated video games out there that require extreme micromanagement skills and use of resources. I'm referring specifically to Real Time Strategy games (a previous poster mentioned starcraft). You are right, pool and these games require different skills. The simpler video games would perhaps require less level of skills. But As mentioned, more complex games would require a great deal of experience, resourcefulness and mastery of resources. .

I would compare them (complicated video games) to the game of CHESS matches. Very different in nature to pool. But I would hardly claim the level of skill is different or any more or less than that required in pool.
 
shamrockhoax said:
...ATM, pool is not as big as it used to be in the US, but it will happen again.
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Okay, okay. I must admit, this oldster does not know what "ATM" means, other than it's a place I go when I need money. :o

However, the words you wrote after it seem to express EXACTLY my thoughts. Pool did used to be BIG in the U.S., didn't it? That's why they all flocked to our shores from every country in the world to experience pool, American style.

Today, it is quite a different matter. Pool tournaments are not as prevalent as they used to be in the U.S. Gone is the Windy City Open, Glass City Open, and BCA "Invitational" Open. Pool tournaments are being held overseas on a more frequent basis today, than in yesteryear.

These kinds of happenings should help illuminate, at least to most Americans, that it will take some news-breaking happening to put pool back on the American map, not to mention that the existing lot of American pros is currently dwindling.

There are not as many Americans pros today in 2008 as there were in 1988, as one example. :sorry:
 
I didn't mean to denigrate the skill it takes to master video games - especially if they are mastered on the square without cheat codes.

I don't really conisder them a sport though. A highly challenging and competitive activity certainly.

Just the other day here in China I was in a brand new pool room. One of the nicest I have ever seen - around 60-80 tables. I wandered through it all the way to the back where I went into the second part of the building which is going to be an internet hall (can't be called a cafe) where there were hundreds of seats, every one a plush chair with a 20" screen and rocking headphones, camera, the whole bit. There were private rooms with three or four giant screens on three walls.

I have seen similar places here FILLED to capacity with hundreds playing World of Warcraft, watching movies, playing other games and whatever.

I just found it to be interesting that pro gamers are now going mainstream.

And honestly, there will always be more gamers and poker players than there will be pool players. Why? Because poker only requires one deck of cards and several willing people and gaming just requires the console and the game and the connection. Pool requires a special table, a special implement, some element of talent, and a large enough space. In gaming you will always be able to find people at your level willing to play. In both gaming and online poker the barrier to entry is really low so the mass of players is really high.

You can't play competive pool in your underwear. You could conceivably win huge amounts of money through online gaming in your underwear. That's why gaming does now and will continue to dwarf pool.

In my lifetime I am going to see a world where people are hardwired to the machine similar to The Matrix, Snow Crash, and Hyperion.

Anyway, I hope to always be able to find a pool table. As someone said, there are no cheat codes or shortcuts to mastery of that game.
 
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