Pool Losing some really good players

[APA BRIAN]

It probably is more along the lines of, retiring from the idea and struggle of pool being your sole income. Not quitting the game or tournaments or making money from pool now or at some point in the future.
Just as many professional athletes want to say hell with it after a bad season, or after a league collapse...

 

[justadub]

Let's see, Mike just won the big tourney this weekend, and Zion came in 5/6.

Not long after announcing their "retirement."

Methinks "retirement" is too strong a word. To me, someone who has "retired" doesn't participate any more.

I'm not knocking the guys or their decisions, I get it. And actually wonder why more guys haven't taken this route before. I just find this current trend of announcing "retirements" to be a tad dramatic, is all.

Good luck to all of them.

 

[ScottyDzntKnow]

Offense taken,

That is a pretty cold statement about two good guys who have given more to pool and achieved more in pool than you ever will

Give the cutting edge a break... It gets old

Your saying that to a guy who does a lot for pool. All he said was that pool was'nt losing 2 world champions he didn't say they dont represent pool well. The fact is spectators won't quit coming because there not there.

 

[Island Drive]

Normal

Over the past 40 yrs this has been the normal course of action for MANY top players. These people are generally pretty sharp and realize this game is a dead end street. If it wasn't there would be tons of gorgeous women sitting on the sidelines just Hoping to get a chance to talk to a top player. There's NO real Life payout unless your #1 or #2 in the world, and the NUT is huge nowadays, and most people don't have much funny money anymore. Stroud was a great player, but chose to work his whole life. I don't think if he played his whole life he'd be in the Smithsonian.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Yikes...Mike Davis, Zion Zvi and Scott Frost all hanging it up recently. Hope it stops. These were all class players and gentleman at the table!!!

Only time will tell if they are done with Pool.






But one of the reason for Pool Player to call it quits is not that Pool is not a great game. Pool offers none of the guarantees, or perk other professional athletes in other sports get.

Honestly if I had had a son, or grandson with sports talent I would not encourage them to be come a Pro Pool Player.

I would point them to:

NASCAR

PGA

NBA

MLB

NFL

NHRA Drag Racing

or some other sport where they could make some real money, and if they were not stupid like some of the Pro Athletes who homes are featured on MTV's Cribs,

They could put some away money to start a business, or life off of later in life.

Heck even Profession Sport Entertainers in the WWF make a fine living, and many retire rich.

 

[CJ Wiley]

this is the barometer of professional sports in many cases.

Over the past 40 yrs this has been the normal course of action for MANY top players. These people are generally pretty sharp and realize this game is a dead end street. If it wasn't there would be tons of gorgeous women sitting on the sidelines just Hoping to get a chance to talk to a top player. There's NO real Life payout unless your #1 or #2 in the world, and the NUT is huge nowadays, and most people don't have much funny money anymore. Stroud was a great player, but chose to work his whole life. I don't think if he played his whole life he'd be in the Smithsonian.

Yes, this is the barometer of professional sports in many cases....when the "gorgeous women" stop paying attention it's just a matter of time before the money dries up.

 

[bdorman]

I hope recent losses are temporary and just frustration or growing pains.

Sorry, but these are Shrinking Pains...not growing pains. It's like when a company is losing business and needs to layoff workers. The pool industry just can't support the number of pros it has.

But pool isn't alone. There are 100-times as many starving musicians, dancers, artists, etal as there are pool players. And they resort to the same things: teaching/lessons, day jobs and living off their girlfriend. Chess players have it just as bad, but at least they can gamble like pool players to earn some cash.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Sorry, but these are Shrinking Pains...not growing pains. It's like when a company is losing business and needs to layoff workers. The pool industry just can't support the number of pros it has.

But pool isn't alone. There are 100-times as many starving musicians, dancers, artists, etal as there are pool players. And they resort to the same things: teaching/lessons, day jobs and living off their girlfriend. Chess players have it just as bad, but at least they can gamble like pool players to earn some cash.

Pool is in competition with things that did not exist during the days when Pool was doing well.

Disneyland, Video games, Country Clubs, Tennis Clubs, and CABLE TV keep lots of people home, or get their money before Pool.

Add to the mix a country in recession, and people just do not have the extra income to blow on an evening of pool, or much else.

 

[westcoast]

I've always been amazed by how great Mike Davis plays considering how terrible his stroke looks. I feel the same way about Allen Hopkins too

 

[RunoutJJ]

This whole Retirement Announcement crap from players is just that... Crap!! You know who is truly retired? Danny Basavich and McCready. They don't play anymore and that is retiring. I would feel better if players would just say.

"I will continue to play in tournaments when I can but life beckons different paths for me right now..."

That sound more like it! Hell if they find a decent paying job (house pro maybe??) at a pool hall working the bar or giving lessons or running tournaments they would do just fine. Plus the owner would be thrilled and wouldn't charge them a dime to practice and they could stay sharp. Find a cheap place to live and save some money. Then when the DCC or the Open comes around they can go on their own dime like the rest of us. There are plenty of ways to make money in pool or in life in general. You don't have to quit completely and Ill tell you this.. They will never quit completely because of how good they are and the burning question they will ask themselves in later years... "What if....."

Its a bunch of crap this retiring bit... I guess they should call it Semi-Retired because that is what it's gonna be.

 

[richiebalto]

In regards to Mike and Zion....

No offense but what exactly are they retiring from?

How many points events have they won? Where are they on the money list?

Just because someone stops paying entries to events doesnt really constitute a retirement to me. They are just not going to play for awhile. But that doesnt sound as dramatic.

I understand where they are coming from though.

I understand what you mean and i agree, its not like any of these guys were making a steady living from pool, or a decent one at that!

Pool could possible be a 2nd or 3rd income for some of these guys, excepted for Busti , svb ,efren, well you know who i mean.

Now if any of the very few elite pool players were to retire, then they would really be retiring from a good source of income.

Cause i wouldnt believe the elite players could make as much money working else where then what they earned while working as a pro pool player, unless they bought into some kind of bussiness.

They sure wouldnt earn as much money working for someone else as they did or could playing pool (now thats just a hand full of players iam talking about).

 

[poolguy4u]

I've always been amazed by how great Mike Davis plays considering how terrible his stroke looks. I feel the same way about Allen Hopkins too

You should see Shawn Toni from Maryland. He looks like a beginner but doesn't miss on a bar box. He really plays great and is fun to watch.

I'd love to take him on the road.

 

[VIProfessor]

You should see Shawn Toni from Maryland. He looks like a beginner but doesn't miss on a bar box. He really plays great and is fun to watch.

I'd love to take him on the road.

Well, I gotta tell you...putting his name out on AZB isn't going to help him in that venture.

 

[Lonestar_jim]

Pool is in competition with things that did not exist during the days when Pool was doing well.

Disneyland, Video games, Country Clubs, Tennis Clubs, and CABLE TV keep lots of people home, or get their money before Pool.

Add to the mix a country in recession, and people just do not have the extra income to blow on an evening of pool, or much else.

I think the decline of putt-putt golf has been worse than that of pool.

Pinball... don't even go there.

Sent from my SCH-M828C using Tapatalk 2

 

[JAM]

This whole Retirement Announcement crap from players is just that... Crap!! You know who is truly retired? Danny Basavich and McCready. They don't play anymore and that is retiring. I would feel better if players would just say.

Just so you know, retiring from pool was not Keith's idea at all.

In fact, he's chomping at the bit to get out there and compete again, the sooner the better.

He has played in a couple local pool tournaments just to strut his stuff.

The reality of the expenses *and* lifestyle can be a deterrent if you like a roof over your head.

Keith reads this forum every day on his computer, and he won't like what I am writing, but the truth of the matter is, pool for some players is a rich man's high. It is intoxicating and addictive. The player's priorities in life go out the window, and sometimes they don't even have any priorities. The majority of the male pros engage in hiring prostitutes at many pool events, even the married ones. Sadly, they don't understand the value of a dollar because, in the pool world, it's easy come and easy go. You can be broke today and be pumped up by nightfall in the pool world if you know how to get action. Keith is an action man, not a tournament player, and the golden years of pool when action was prevalent are dead.

Danny "Kid Delicious" Basavich and Keith McCready are two fortunate players who left the pool scene but for different reasons. The reason Danny is fortunate is that he does indeed have a loving and supportive family. When pool failed Danny, Danny was able to bounce back because of his loving family. Keith has the security of having a roof over his head, not having to sweat where he's going to sleep or eat the next night, but more importantly, Keith today is healthy. Pool definitely has occupational hazards for some players.

In conclusion, I truly hope Mike Davis takes his winnings from the Ginky Memorial and secures a permanent place to live, one where he can find a permanent job. In the D.C. area, which Mike is familiar with, we were not hit by the recent recession. There is no shortage of jobs here. If a man wants to work, he can find a job in D.C., and I mean a good job, one with benefits and a decent wage.

American professional pool is circling the drain. The existing lot of American pro players is dwindling. In my opinion, this is the result of the abhorrent disregard by the Billiard Congress of America to the very players they are supposed to support and represent. Shame on the BCA organization for creating this mess. If they had been doing their job, professional pool would be alive and well. Industry members support industry members and look at pro players as if they're panhandlers or a gnat in their collective ears. Shame on them! Shame on them! Shame on them!

 

[thewhiffer]

Just so you know, retiring from pool was not Keith's idea at all.

In fact, he's chomping at the bit to get out there and compete again, the sooner the better.

He has played in a couple local pool tournaments just to strut his stuff.

The reality of the expenses *and* lifestyle can be a deterrent if you like a roof over your head.

Keith reads this forum every day on his computer, and he won't like what I am writing, but the truth of the matter is, pool for some players is a rich man's high. It is intoxicating and addictive. The player's priorities in life go out the window, and sometimes they don't even have any priorities. The majority of the male pros engage in hiring prostitutes at many pool events, even the married ones. Sadly, they don't understand the value of a dollar because, in the pool world, it's easy come and easy go. You can be broke today and be pumped up by nightfall in the pool world if you know how to get action. Keith is an action man, not a tournament player, and the golden years of pool when action was prevalent are dead.

Danny "Kid Delicious" Basavich and Keith McCready are two fortunate players who left the pool scene but for different reasons. The reason Danny is fortunate is that he does indeed have a loving and supportive family. When pool failed Danny, Danny was able to bounce back because of his loving family. Keith has the security of having a roof over his head, not having to sweat where he's going to sleep or eat the next night, but more importantly, Keith today is healthy. Pool definitely has occupational hazards for some players.

In conclusion, I truly hope Mike Davis takes his winnings from the Ginky Memorial and secures a permanent place to live, one where he can find a permanent job. In the D.C. area, which Mike is familiar with, we were not hit by the recent recession. There is no shortage of jobs here. If a man wants to work, he can find a job in D.C., and I mean a good job, one with benefits and a decent wage.

American professional pool is circling the drain. The existing lot of American pro players is dwindling. In my opinion, this is the result of the abhorrent disregard by the Billiard Congress of America to the very players they are supposed to support and represent. Shame on the BCA organization for creating this mess. If they had been doing their job, professional pool would be alive and well. Industry members support industry members and look at pro players as if they're panhandlers or a gnat in their collective ears. Shame on them! Shame on them! Shame on them!

You show some poignant insight, make some valid points and give some good advice. I cannot, however, follow your line of reasoning in respect of saying that the BCA organization creating this mess. I would appreciate if you could back this statement up with sound argument. I have a reason to want to understand their, the BCA, role.

It would be nice to see Keith compete from time to time. I feel that our sport is lacking in terms of players with “star power”.

To elaborate, my background is the music business. Over the years I met and worked with numerous talented people. I know of many that had the talent, the voice the music ability but did not have the “presence” or star power if you will to get the major label publicity machine behind them. This is true today more than ever in that industry.

The golden days of pool were fueled by larger than life characters. The original Hustler movie spawned the character of Minnesota Fats and Rudolf Wanderone Jr. took on that role and played it larger than life in real life. It is interesting to note that he never won a major pool tournament. One might also ask the question if Willie Mosconi would have gained the widespread fame that he did without having Fats as a foil. The Color of Money added to the cache and mystique of the road player. Pool had a brief moment in the spotlight and then the spotlight dimmed again.

I would argue that we have the most talented and skilled practioners of the art today than ever before. What we do not have, with rare exception, is true star power. Fans want STARS! Without stars, and the publicity machine of a major organization behind them, the fan base remains a small, knowledgeable, eclectic group of purists.

The IPT wanted to create stars and showcase them in a showbiz style setting. Whatever money was there in the beginning it was too little and too impatient, looking to fuel itself with the proceeds gathered from a house of cards built on selling the dream of the qualifier. It was not sustainable. What the IPT had right was to use both the legends along with the current best players, both male and female to create the buzz they were looking for. They clearly underestimated the reception that they would receive from mainstream broadcasters and sponsors.

I have watched, with interest, as some of the current top tier players have taken to social media in an attempt to garner a wider audience; in particular Earl Strickland.

Earl, along with Dennis Hatch, Mike Dechaine and Shane Van Boening all have the potential to reach a wider audience. The battles between Earl and Shane have already generated more interest than almost any other match up. With all due respect there are great players who no one, other than the niche market of pool purists, would pay to watch.

Pool needs characters and we should be celebrating and promoting them. They are the key to a larger, more mainstream market. It will take organizations such as the BCA to get behind a few of these potential stars and use them to create a larger market.

I know that there will be push back from the status quo group of pool snobs in respect of my comments but I would point out that I have written is merely my opinion based on a lifetime of experience in the music industry and a love of pool that was found later in life.

Once more, please elaborate on your comments about the BCA.

 

[Island Drive]

In my opinion, this is the result of the abhorrent disregard by the Billiard Congress of America to the very players they are supposed to support and represent. Shame on the BCA organization for creating this mess. If they had been doing their job, professional pool would be alive and well. Industry members support industry members and look at pro players as if they're panhandlers or a gnat in their collective ears. Shame on them! Shame on them! Shame on them!

Have spent a few yrs working in office @ the BCA, my perspective is a little different. Working side by side with John Lewis during that time, we had 6 employee that worked directly with ''Player Programs''. Since the initial move from IA to Colorado Spgs. the Ex Director (via the board) ended all BCA player programs, and the junior scholarship funds went away (lack of usage) Looking back, something went on behind closed doors that caused this to happen, and it didn't feel like the board president at the time was steering the ship. The ex director worked for the military running sports of some kind for decades, he didn't even know how to hold a cue. Something caused this, if I were to guess, the ex director saw ways of building up the bank account during his tenure by cutting back on programs and employess all the while making himself and the biz model look great. He had no long term plans to hang with our game.
Ironically, years ago when the USTA (tennis assoc) saw their player numbers dropping off they immediately addressed this. But since pool is still perceived as a ''game'' the BCA saw no reason to do much more than embrace the Instructor program. Ironically, we've have an academy board member that has his own academy for yrs in Rockford IL, wonder why?????

 

[JAM]

You show some poignant insight, make some valid points and give some good advice. I cannot, however, follow your line of reasoning in respect of saying that the BCA organization creating this mess. I would appreciate if you could back this statement up with sound argument. I have a reason to want to understand their, the BCA, role.

It would be nice to see Keith compete from time to time. I feel that our sport is lacking in terms of players with “star power”.

To elaborate, my background is the music business. Over the years I met and worked with numerous talented people. I know of many that had the talent, the voice the music ability but did not have the “presence” or star power if you will to get the major label publicity machine behind them. This is true today more than ever in that industry.

The golden days of pool were fueled by larger than life characters. The original Hustler movie spawned the character of Minnesota Fats and Rudolf Wanderone Jr. took on that role and played it larger than life in real life. It is interesting to note that he never won a major pool tournament. One might also ask the question if Willie Mosconi would have gained the widespread fame that he did without having Fats as a foil. The Color of Money added to the cache and mystique of the road player. Pool had a brief moment in the spotlight and then the spotlight dimmed again.

I would argue that we have the most talented and skilled practioners of the art today than ever before. What we do not have, with rare exception, is true star power. Fans want STARS! Without stars, and the publicity machine of a major organization behind them, the fan base remains a small, knowledgeable, eclectic group of purists.

The IPT wanted to create stars and showcase them in a showbiz style setting. Whatever money was there in the beginning it was too little and too impatient, looking to fuel itself with the proceeds gathered from a house of cards built on selling the dream of the qualifier. It was not sustainable. What the IPT had right was to use both the legends along with the current best players, both male and female to create the buzz they were looking for. They clearly underestimated the reception that they would receive from mainstream broadcasters and sponsors.

I have watched, with interest, as some of the current top tier players have taken to social media in an attempt to garner a wider audience; in particular Earl Strickland.

Earl, along with Dennis Hatch, Mike Dechaine and Shane Van Boening all have the potential to reach a wider audience. The battles between Earl and Shane have already generated more interest than almost any other match up. With all due respect there are great players who no one, other than the niche market of pool purists, would pay to watch.

Pool needs characters and we should be celebrating and promoting them. They are the key to a larger, more mainstream market. It will take organizations such as the BCA to get behind a few of these potential stars and use them to create a larger market.

I know that there will be push back from the status quo group of pool snobs in respect of my comments but I would point out that I have written is merely my opinion based on a lifetime of experience in the music industry and a love of pool that was found later in life.

Once more, please elaborate on your comments about the BCA.

Read the post from Island Drive. :smile:

 

[JAM]

Have spent a few yrs working in office @ the BCA, my perspective is a little different. Working side by side with John Lewis during that time, we had 6 employee that worked directly with ''Player Programs''. Since the initial move from IA to Colorado Spgs. the Ex Director (via the board) ended all BCA player programs, and the junior scholarship funds went away (lack of usage) Looking back, something went on behind closed doors that caused this to happen, and it didn't feel like the board president at the time was steering the ship. The ex director worked for the military running sports of some kind for decades, he didn't even know how to hold a cue. Something caused this, if I were to guess, the ex director saw ways of building up the bank account during his tenure by cutting back on programs and employess all the while making himself and the biz model look great. He had no long term plans to hang with our game.
Ironically, years ago when the USTA (tennis assoc) saw their player numbers dropping off they immediately addressed this. But since pool is still perceived as a ''game'' the BCA saw no reason to do much more than embrace the Instructor program. Ironically, we've have an academy board member that has his own academy for yrs in Rockford IL, wonder why?????

The Billiard Congress of America is supposed to be the governmental organization for North American professional pool, which includes the United States.

The WPA is above them.

The WPA doesn't give a damn about industry members, yet the BCA seems to center their entire existence around its membership consisting of industry members.

The once-a-year BCA Open, which really wasn't an open since it was an invitational, with half of its player roster coming from abroad, outside of the BCA jurisdiction, folded like a lawn chair a few years ago. That was the little bone with not much meat on it that the BCA "gave" to professional pool. They decided that wasn't worth it anymore.

If the BCA wants to look out for its membership consisting of industry members, then they should relinquish their position representing North America. I say give it to Mark Griffin or some other entity that really does care about pool players. Industry members care about industry members getting fat while professional pool players go to two, three, and four tournaments a month and cannot ever break even.

The BCA with its fat industry members should have created a pro tour with funds coming from the fat industry members. If there were a pro tour, pool might have a chance in mainstream America on TV.

Instead, we have American dancing monkeys for pro players who sell their services like prostitutes to the highest bidder. The pool player ends up with a sliver of pie.

The industry members aka BCA in this regard have created the demise of professional pool with their shameful disregard to the players themselves. That's my story, and I'm sticking with it.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

I think the decline of putt-putt golf has been worse than that of pool.

Pinball... don't even go there.

Sent from my SCH-M828C using Tapatalk 2

Two more thing that have gone bye bye because they no long made a profit, like places where you could go jump on a trampoline in the 50's, and 60's for a half buck, or so an hour.