poolhall smoking

Hey guys, I'm sorry. I didn't realize that not wanting to smell like a cigarette would lead to the end of the American Dream.

I guess I'm glad that I live in the socialist State of Maine (for once) where we don't have these issues. (It's pretty cold here, by the way. Life hasn't stopped, and the bars are all still open, and people still smoke, and people still play pool, and people still dance...)

This is really far too complex for a little old moron like me. Carry on. :rolleyes:
 
justadub said:
Hey guys, I'm sorry. I didn't realize that not wanting to smell like a cigarette would lead to the end of the American Dream.

I guess I'm glad that I live in the socialist State of Maine (for once) where we don't have these issues. (It's pretty cold here, by the way. Life hasn't stopped, and the bars are all still open, and people still smoke, and people still play pool, and people still dance...)

This is really far too complex for a little old moron like me. Carry on. :rolleyes:
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No sweat. Not wanting to smell like a cigarette is not the end of the American Dream. It is in fact THE American dream. You can choose. Go into a smoking establishment or not. But then, the Peoples Republic of Maine has made that choice for you now haven't they? (by the way, after I posted this I felt bad that is seemed I was taking a shot at you or Maine- that was not my intent. I mean no malice since I am from one of the biggest nanny states- The People Republic of Massachusetts... and oh, by the way Deval- we are still waiting for our property tax relief!)

Bob
 
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doitforthegame said:
That's ok. But here is the deal. Just because you do not get your own way does not make something unfair or unjust. It just makes it the way that it is.


Bob
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Fortunately, us nonsmokers ARE getting our own way. SWEET!

Look on the bright side. The anti-smoking stigma will eventually lead to a huge reduction in smoking, which is good for everybody's quality of life.

I really don't put a lot of store in the "pro-liberty" argument, because the same argument could be directly applied to crack cocaine.

It is addictive.

If one continues to smoke it, they will suffer long term health problems.

People don't want to be around you if you smoke it.

Crack cocaine and nicotine are basically mirror images of each other. Highly addictive substances that hurt the user. One is legal, one is not. It is unfortunate that tobacco has enjoyed a "free pass" the way it has for a few hundred years.

For all those that make the argument that the government is using this anti-smoking thing to "gian control" of you, please think about this:

Tobacco companies spent many millions of dollars in political contributions (aka "bribes") to keep a large percentage of the world's population addicted to a drug.

You are asking that they be allowed to continue to do so, in essence.

It is just a matter of WHO is controlling you? :D

Russ
 
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No offense taken here. And you can take as many shots as you'd like at The Peoples Republic of Maine. I do, often. As many strange or difficult state-mandated issues that you have there in Massachusetts, we have probably just as many, with a fraction of the population to pay for them.

That would be another thread entirely. :wink:
 
I hate smoking, glad my girl quit. It smells horrible, irritates your eyes an is just bad for your health. I just cant stand cigarettes period, glad that smoking bans are in place, I can see and breathe now when I go out to a bar or poolroom. :smile:
 
Every bar or place with a bar in the entire country feel the sting at the beginning of the ban. The bans are too new to see the long term impact. It's like anything else if you can give someone all their entertainment in one spot they won't leave and will do more of it. If you could smoke, shoot pool, and have a drink in the same spot life would be......like it used to be!
 
It seems simple enough to have a sign at the entrance stating whether the pool room is a smoking or non-smoking facility. Then it's an informed choice. If that isn't good enough, then second-hand smoke isn't really the extent of the issue.

I'm stunned by the argument that the existence of smoking pool rooms prevents non-smokers from being able to match up with smokers. One doesn't get to legislate other players into being available for a game. It's a moot point though, because any serious player would agree to a worthwhile game in a non-smoking venue. Smoking in pool rooms is about the casual patrons who are just using the place as one of many options for a night out.

I smoke 2~3 cigars a month. When I lived overseas, I took advantage of the lax smoking attitude by having a smoke while practicing. I certainly don't need that, so non-smoking pool rooms wouldn't be a problem for me in that sense. My concern is with the government saying that informed choice isn't good enough.
 
LC3 said:
I smoke 2~3 cigars a month. When I lived overseas, I took advantage of the lax smoking attitude by having a smoke while practicing.
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I absolutely, 100% guarantee that some players ended up leaving the hall over your expression of your freedom of choice as pertains to cigars. At least until you finished your practice session.

Cigarettes are bad enough, but can be endured, by cigar smoke actually makes a LOT of no smokers physically feel ill when exposed to it in an enclosed space with insufficient ventilation.

Russ
 
Russ Chewning said:
I absolutely, 100% guarantee that some players ended up leaving the hall over your expression of your freedom of choice as pertains to cigars. At least until you finished your practice session.

Cigarettes are bad enough, but can be endured, by cigar smoke actually makes a LOT of no smokers physically feel ill when exposed to it in an enclosed space with insufficient ventilation.

Russ
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I am a cancer survivor; pacemaker wearing old guy. I am a non smoker except for the 2-3 cigars I cherish each month. But as much as I rail against having a ban shoved down my throat, when I owned the pool room it was great. It was cleaner, smelled a lot better and everyone had enough room to shoot without interference because almost half my customers went away! My problem with the ban was that my city was one of the first in the state to pass a ban. Customers could go two towns over and smoke and play pool. When the state eventually went non smoking, even that pool room closed. But times change. And it is sweet for you liberty-squashing nanny state favoring, free choice canceling non smokers. But there was a time that spittoons were in every restaurant and bar. Times are different and times have changed.

And- to one of your earlier posts....it is in fact all about liberty. Having the choice to enter a pool room with smoking is in fact the definition of liberty. The condition of being free from restriction or control.
(n.) Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.

Bob
 
doitforthegame said:
I am a cancer survivor; pacemaker wearing old guy. I am a non smoker except for the 2-3 cigars I cherish each month. But as much as I rail against having a ban shoved down my throat, when I owned the pool room it was great. It was cleaner, smelled a lot better and everyone had enough room to shoot without interference because almost half my customers went away! My problem with the ban was that my city was one of the first in the state to pass a ban. Customers could go two towns over and smoke and play pool. When the state eventually went non smoking, even that pool room closed. But times change. And it is sweet for you liberty-squashing nanny state favoring, free choice canceling non smokers. But there was a time that spittoons were in every restaurant and bar. Times are different and times have changed.

And- to one of your earlier posts....it is in fact all about liberty. Having the choice to enter a pool room with smoking is in fact the definition of liberty. The condition of being free from restriction or control.
(n.) Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.

Bob
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I have no problem with you cherishing your cigars.

I just wish you'd cherish them:

A. In your own home

B. In your own car

or

C. Somewhere outside in the 200 gajillion square feet of land we have on planet earth that does not have an enclosed space sitting on top of it.

:D

Russ
 
I have no problem with you cherishing your cigars.
I just wish you'd cherish them:
A. In your own home
B. In your own car
or
C. Somewhere outside in the 200 gajillion square feet of land we have on planet earth that does not have an enclosed space sitting on top of it.

Russ

A- I can't smoke em in the house because my wife would kick my arse!
B- I can't smoke em in the car because my kids would kick my arse!
C- which is why I had one yesterday, out in the freezing cold, snow and dark!

And I'm a C player too so you get no weight from me! :wink:

Bob
 
Cameron Smith said:
At the end of the day, roughly 24.7% of US residents smoke. Why should they dictate where the 75.3% go?
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Seems that an awful lot of not-so-smart pool room owners missed a golden opportunity to go smokeless on their own and appeal to that 75.3%.

I wonder why. Maybe they didn't see any real demand????????

Steve
 
technicality

chefjeff said:
I stopped reading right there....

Those two statements are the current LIE being spread by the statists. Those are NOT true.

The banking mess was NOT created by business. It was created by businesses buying govt power for both parties, i.e., fascism.

Here are the real causes of the banking/mortgage mess...

Before the House Financial Services Committee, Humphrey Hawkins Hearing, February 25, 2008

Mr. Chairman,

We find ourselves mired in the deepest economic crisis to afflict this country since the Great Depression. Yet, despite the failure of all the interventionist efforts to date to do anything to improve the economy, each week seems to bring new proposals for yet more bailouts, more funding facilities, and more of the same discredited Keynesian ideas. There are still relatively few policymakers who understand the roots of the current crisis in the Federal Reserve's monetary policy. No one in government is willing to take the blame; instead we transfer it onto others. We blame the crisis on greedy bankers and mortgage lenders, on the Chinese for being too thrifty and providing us with capital, or on consumers who aren't spending as much as the government thinks they should.

One aspect that needs to come to the fore once again is that of moral hazard. When the government acts as a backstop to insure losses that come about from making poor decisions, such poor decision-making is rewarded, and thereby further encouraged in the future. Such backstopping took place through the implicit government guarantee of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, it takes place through FDIC deposit insurance that encourages deposits in the fundamentally unsound fractional-reserve banking system, and it has reached its zenith in the TARP program and its related bailouts.

When banking giants are reimbursed for their losses through redistribution of taxpayer money, what lesson do we expect them to learn? Can anyone in Washington say with a straight face that these banks will shape up their business practices when they are almost guaranteed billions of dollars in taxpayer funds? Even if this does provide a temporary lifeline, it only delays the inevitable collapse of a banking system built on an unsustainable model. Fractional-reserve banking is completely dependent on faith in the banks' abilities to repay depositors, and when that ability is thrown into doubt, the house of cards comes crashing down. The Federal Reserve may be able to manage public confidence, but confidence only goes so far. When banks are required to hold a maximum of ten percent of their deposits on reserve, the system is fundamentally insolvent. Such a system cannot be propped up or bailed out, except at the cost of massive creation of money and credit, which would result in a hyperinflation that would completely destroy our economy.

Chairman Bernanke and others in positions of authority seem to gloss over these systemic instabilities and assume an excessively rosy outlook on the economy. I believe we are at another major economic crossroad, where the global financial system will have to be fundamentally rethought. The post–Bretton Woods dollar-standard system has proven remarkably resilient, lasting longer than the gold-exchange system which preceded it, but the current economic crisis has illustrated the unsustainability of the current dollar-based system. To think that the economy will begin to recover by the end of this year is absurd. The dollar's supposed strength exists only because of the weakness of other currencies. The Fed's increase of the monetary base and establishment of "temporary" funding facilities has set the stage for hyperinflation, and it remains to be seen what results.

If banks begin to lend their increased reserves, we will see the first steps towards hyperinflation. Now that the Fed has increased the monetary base, it finds itself under pressure to withdraw these funds at some point. The question, however, is when? If it withdraws too soon, banks' balance sheets collapse, if too late, massive inflation will ensue. As in previous crises, the Fed's inflationary actions leave it compelled to take action that will severely harm the economy through either deflation or hyperinflation. Had the Fed not begun interfering 18 months ago, we might have already seen a recovery in the economy by now. Bad debts would have been liquidated, inefficient firms sold off and their resources put to better use elsewhere. As it is, I believe any temporary uptick in economic indicators nowadays will likely be misinterpreted as economic recovery rather than the result of Federal Reserve credit creation. Until we learn the lesson that government intervention cannot heal the economy, and can only do harm, we will never stabilize the economy or get on the road to true recovery.


---Ron Paul, Representative from Texas​



Jeff Livingston
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The mortgage and banking mess is a complex issue that involves incompetant government oversight, poor laws, inept government, and the democratic belief that everybody should own a home. But the mortgage companies that were offering subprime and other bad mortgages knew all of this would come to a head and the smart ones got out at the right time. I think it takes a limited view of the world not to see that corporate greed is complicit in the problem. Think about the banks gambling the countries' wealth on bad mortgages. That being said, the argument that businesses cannot regulate themselves is valid. If you don't agree, buy toys and dog food from China where they are not regulated (the same way US businesses weren't regulated). In some ways regulation is good for the honest business owners. Honest business owners are not competing against dis-honest or inept businesses that don't follow health and safety laws. Smoking is a public health issue. If i am standing outside waiting for a bus, I chose not to stand next to a smoker. I also chose to play pool in a smoke filled bar because I love to play pool. I'd also prefer to play league in a smoke-free poolhall all else being equal. I chose to hang out with friends that smoke. Business establishments do not have the right to chose to operate in a way that violates public health laws. If they did, they'd dump their sewer out on the back alley to save money or carry all of the garbage out through the public areas.
 
doitforthegame said:
No one is dictating where the 75.3% should go. All I'm saying is the 24.7% AND the 75.3% have the right to CHOOSE where they go.

Bob
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Your right, the minority aren't consciously saying screw all non-smokers. But when they expect that they should be allowed to smoke anywhere, it doesn't take very many people smoking in a bar to drive non-smokers away. Furthermore non-smoking areas are a joke all it means is that no one is blowing it close to you. The prevailing arguement whether it is explicitly stated or not is, if non-smokers don't like it they can go elsewhere, hence minority dictating the majority.

To bring this back to pool, before the smoking ban in Ontario my family and friends were very concerned about me spending hours upon hours in a smokey pool room so many days a week. I have to imagine that this has driven more than a few people away from taking the sport seriously. No matter how much you like the game not many want to spend that much time in a smoke filled room. I used to come home with my clothes smelling of smoke. Now, no one has any concerns with my playing.
 
pooltchr said:
Seems that an awful lot of not-so-smart pool room owners missed a golden opportunity to go smokeless on their own and appeal to that 75.3%.

I wonder why. Maybe they didn't see any real demand????????

Steve
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Possibly, but I think it's easier and safer to continue pandering to your current clientelle than to try and reach out to new ones all the while potentially alienating the former. It's a tough road to go on your own, many of the pool room and bar patrons are smokers because of the stigma surrounding both establishments. Hopefully this will change in the near future.
 
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They would have to quit playing................

donny mills said:
I know this has been covered before but I thought of something new. I've managed to out run the nuts for the last 3 years and not catch a cold until yesterday. So I wanna go practice but I can't because smokey poolhalls make the cold worse and last longer.

Anyways I was dating a girl that runs marathons and she has asthma a little. So she wouldn't go inside a smokey poolhall because it messed her lungs up.

My question is this. What if 10 top pros couldn't go inside a smoking poolhall due to medical reasons? What if the pro couldn't afford a table at home or couldn't fit one at home to practice on?

Let's hear a logical explanation from the people that think smoking indoors is ok?
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Hi there donny,

This is a huge problem for someone like myself. I'm diabetic and my son has asthma. Many people have some sort of auto immune disease also. Maybe these or something alse. I know these two things are pretty common among many people.

I smoked for 13 years. From 1971 to around 1984. I was the greediest, most self-centered person you ever wanted to meet when it came to my addiction to my nasty little habit.

Try to take away someones cocaine or their heroin or their pain medication that they are addicted to and you would get the same reaction that you get from some smokers that think they are defending their rights when in all reality it never should have been allowed in the first place if the cig companies wouldn't have lied for years and brainwashed everyone into thinking it was so great and glamourous.

They even had doctors doing commercials for them. I remember all these stupid commercials and I can still sing the jingles for all of them. How strong is this 20 years later. I'd call that brainwashing.

The government banned the commercials and the first thing that was said was the cig companies do all this advertising. Now where's the money going to come from.

When Camel sponsored the Pro Tour there for awhile were we supposed to all pick up a cig and start smoking. Even the people that are sick already. These companies that are selling these little killing sticks don't give a rats ass about you or me. That has been proving itself for many years now.

But don't worry, the tax money is still there. the addiction for smoking is just barely under addiction for cocaine. I just watched one of my best friends die from cancer. He smoked right up to the day he died even though he could hardly breath. Nose,throat,sinuses,brain tumor,lymph nodes, it was everywhere taking over his body. The doc gave Denny 6 to 8 months to live. He told denny he might as well keep smoking because it wouldn't matter. But i kind of wonder if maybe his quality of life might have been a little bit better without. But Denny was addicted as all smokers are. He was a victim as all smokers are. We have been mislead for years into learning to love something that is killing more people everyday than all the deaths in all the wars since the beginning of this huge lie.

I feel sorry for all the people that smoke and feel even worse for the few that feel like they are defending their right. The right to make other people sick just because we were brainwashed into thinking it was OK and acceptable for years and years.

I live in Eau Claire wi. I take my pool serious and try to play as good as I possibly can. I travel and give lessons with Perfect Aim. Right now I've been back in Wisconsin for about 2 months and my game has kind of went to crap. There is no poolhall mainly because the one that was open went broke because the city made a smoking ban for just the City of Eau Claire. Many bars and pool halls have been put out of business by this selective process. They didn't want to wait for the government to fight all the smoking advocates

All the little townships that are connected to the city can smoke still because technically they are not considered part of Eau Claire. It's kind of funny. When they did the ban there is one bar almost right next to each other. About a block away. When they did this ban the one bar was full and the other was empty.

I play pool league in a bar to qualify for all the tournys. BCA,VNEA,ACS. These are fun events and when you go to these tournys it is non smoking. They smoke in this bar. I played for 4 hours in there wed to get 2 more weeks of league in to qualify but I'm starting to think it ain't worth it.

It's 6 days later and my nose is still like I got cement in it in the morning. My eyes don't seem to focus right and I don't feel real great. I feel like i have a hangover when i wake up.

I went to a tournament this last weekend and I'm going in the front door of this fabulous poolhall and I got a great big breath of smoke as I walked in the front door. I know the smokers are supposed to be so far from the entrance but they don't seem to understand how bad it is especially for people that are sick already.

I drive up to Minneapolis to play pool. It's smoke free and they have a whole bunch of great players and weekly tournaments. I am like a prisoner here in Wisconsin. I cannot play in the smoke. Right now I can't even go to Minnesota because I feel so worn out still from being in the smoke last wed to get 2 weeks in of league.

There are a whole bunch of players around the country that are capable of playing on a professional level right now. But I don't know of anyone that could be a professional anything and be in that smoke all the time.

How stupid would it be to have a marathon runner do a cig commercial. Well a pool player has to be in great shape just to get through a tournament or an 8 hour session.

I got to the US Open 3 weeks early because I wanted to practice and give some lessons there. I played some with Ronnie Wiseman at Q-masters for about 3 hours. I had to get out of there.

I traveled to Baltimore,Maryland so I could practice for the next 3 weeks. And instead of getting ready for the US Open I spent the first 7 days recovering from 3 hours of smoke.

Until they do this smoking ban everywhere it is tough for a pool player to stay out of it all together.

If the top 10 players in the world had to play in the smoke all the time. When they practice and they play they would no longer be in the top 10 soon. The physical problems would overcome some of them quickly while others would hang in there for awhile. But the endurance would be a big problem for most of them in the long run.

The younger you are the more your body can handle the smoke. The older you get the less you can endure.

I got a good idea Donny. Talk to the top 10 players and ask them if they had to practice all the time in the smoke and then play in the smoke if they would continue to play. Or if they think they would want to continue.

Good Luck out there. Great thread..........:happydance:..
 
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