Pool's not in the dumps because of bad behaving players...(Long)

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
I keep hearing people say that pool doesn't have corporate multi-million dollar sponsorships because of players acting up and or getting into trouble etc...

Then I hear the counter arguments that other sports have just as many people acting up and that golfers are fined for acting up etc...

Then counter arguments that the other sports that have bad players or poor sports etc... is different because there's millions or billions of dollars involved...

One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

There is ONE reason and one reason ONLY that pool doesn't have huge corporate sponsorship and only limited sponsorship from corporations directly involved in the billiards industry.

It's that there's no money in it. If there was money to be made from professional billiards all the antics in the world wouldn't stop them from being involved.

Then you can argue that the reason there is not more public interest in professional billiards is the public perception of billiards, this is a misnomer...

It's the disinterest in professional billiards that maintains the negative public perception. If people were interested in professional billiards, then it wouldn't matter.

Now the crux of the issue. How do you induce interest in professional billiards???

No easy answer to that one. It's difficult to compare pool to a lot of the other successful sports with large corporate sponsorships to know how to properly market professional billiards. Golf is the most oft cited sport when comparing billiards to other sports but it really isn't valid.

You can't really compare team sports because as of now (might soon change) pool isn't really a team sport; however, Leagues are typically a team sport and for all of the people stating that we need more league involvement in supporting a professional tour, this can create more comraderie and interest. Also when you look at one of the most successful billiards events (Mosconi Cup) It is a team based sport.

I think that one of two marketing strategies could possibly work; however, either strategy would require substantial capital outlay which increases the risk.reward ratio making it difficult to get someone involved.

The idea that getting billiards televised is the answer is ridiculous. No other sport has gone to TV and been successful when so little physical interest in coming to see it live was there.

Whichever marketing strategy works will require successfully marketing billiards to a live audience before televised billiards can ever be successful.

Now on to the possible marketing strategies. You can do it one of two ways, both requiring capital injection, one requiring more capital injection with a bigger risk than the other.

The first (and the most likely to succeed IMO) is setting up city based teams with team names and emblems similar to baseball, basketball and football. Pilot programs of this to test their viability would cost far less than the second option. Having a team designated to a specific city with proper print, radio and word of mouth advertising can go a long way toward increasing public interest.

Many people root for their home team solely because they are from their city and have an emotional connection to the team. Create that with billiards and you might be surprised what may develop.

The second option is to mass market and promote a boxing style arrangment. This has been popular of late with the matchups between Shane and Earl, JOhnny and Earl, and Earl with just about anyone....

Notice a theme there. People want to see Earl. Some because of his talent, some because of his antics and some because they want to see a world class player fall. To have success in this style of arrangment requires one of two things.

1) Mass Marketing and promotion (requires a HUGE capital investment)
2) Name recognition ( Ain't gonna happen with pool anytime soon without major changes first)

I personally feel that both of the above marketing strategies are potentially capable of restoring success to professional pool and if I gain the means to pilot a program I will. I think that if a team based organization is started and becomes successful, then the name recognition for the second becomes more viable.

If you can get a nationwide team structure that is profitable built up, (the same way that these other successful sports did it by the way, gradually over time), then the networks will be chomping at the bit to get the rights to it and corporations will be fighting to become involved as well.

The bottom line is that people are people and some people will always act up in ways that turn some people off and creates more interest and controversy for others. It doesn't hurt the sport or prevent a sport from being successful, the only thing that does that is a lack of a customer base and the lack of profitibility in being involved and outlaying capital.

Kevin Trudeau proved that putting it on TV without proper marketing or anything to create interest is a losing proposition and this has made it that much harder to generate corporate interest but the market is definitely out there if the proper strategy is utilized.

Just my two cents worth....

Jaden
 
Funny I was just reading this article on worldsnooker.com and thinking why is there not a business man like Barry Hearn in the US, of all places.
If Hearn can get this kind of unlikeley sponsorship why not pool?
Oh of course you are also correct in assuming money is everything, wanna put pool back on the map, offer big $. Build it and they will come.

"Hearn met with dignitaries including Suwat Liptapanlop (pictured to his left), the former Deputy Prime Minister of Thailand and Chairman of the PTT-EGAT Snooker World Cup 2011 organising committee, to discuss plans for the event.

The tournament will be sponsored by PTT, Thailand's state-owned energy company, and EGAT, the Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand.
It will run from July 11 to 17 at the World Trade Centre in Bangkok.

There will be 20 two-man teams from around the world, making it a truly global event. Eight teams are seeded into the event based on the position of players in the world rankings, and as the host nation, Thailand will have two teams. Details on the other teams will follow.

▪ A FURTHER ANNOUNCEMENT on another new event is expected within the next few weeks. We are in advanced discussions about a new overseas ranking tournament to take place in late July. We intend to reissue the 2011/12 calendar, including rankings cut-off points, during the Betfred.com World Championship."
 
I agree in part with you analysis here. You right on point for the most part. I totally agree that pool will NEVER have the multimillion dollar sponsorship because there is absolutely no return on their investment. Where I disagree is I believe that there is still some investment dollars that could be poured into pool. On a much much smaller scale mind you, but still a pretty decent shot in the arm for pool professionals. No matter how you slice it, there is a negative conatation when you tell the common non pool player that you play pool. The almost immediate response is "oh your a pool hustler huh". I think they truly mean nothing by that statement, but without realizing it that type of feeling about pool players comes out. To the average Joe out there they have no idea what a craft these guys have perfected. They put in just as much time and dedication as any top golfer or any other athlete for that matter. On the subject of antic, behavior and professionalism, I still say and will always say you have to reform those who dont act like the talented professionals that they are. The sad fact of the matter is we like the seediness of the action, the gamble. We love the smokey dim lit downstairs pool room, with the great history of high dollar action. We love to repeat the stories of the greatest moves performed by the greats. We love the seediness of pool! Myself included. But I think for me is I would love to see these men and women start getting paid a little more for their skill. I would like to see more sponsorships to cover some of their expenses. But unfortunately in order for this to happen the action will have to stop unless its a challenge match. Great rant!

FC
 
I don't think the sponsorship will never come...

I agree in part with you analysis here. You right on point for the most part. I totally agree that pool will NEVER have the multimillion dollar sponsorship because there is absolutely no return on their investment. Where I disagree is I believe that there is still some investment dollars that could be poured into pool. On a much much smaller scale mind you, but still a pretty decent shot in the arm for pool professionals. No matter how you slice it, there is a negative conatation when you tell the common non pool player that you play pool. The almost immediate response is "oh your a pool hustler huh". I think they truly mean nothing by that statement, but without realizing it that type of feeling about pool players comes out. To the average Joe out there they have no idea what a craft these guys have perfected. They put in just as much time and dedication as any top golfer or any other athlete for that matter. On the subject of antic, behavior and professionalism, I still say and will always say you have to reform those who dont act like the talented professionals that they are. The sad fact of the matter is we like the seediness of the action, the gamble. We love the smokey dim lit downstairs pool room, with the great history of high dollar action. We love to repeat the stories of the greatest moves performed by the greats. We love the seediness of pool! Myself included. But I think for me is I would love to see these men and women start getting paid a little more for their skill. I would like to see more sponsorships to cover some of their expenses. But unfortunately in order for this to happen the action will have to stop unless its a challenge match. Great rant!

FC

I'm working a lot of different angles in life right now. Some may end up putting me in a position to try some things. Fingers crossed and lots of work being done...

I'd like to try a pilot program with five man teams from San Diego and LA and do proper print and radio advertising and try to show a potential profitibility in it. I'll need between $25-35K for my pilot program and if successful I will move forward with it.

I've been working on a strategy for this for a while now, I'm just trying to get some other things in my life on track so that I have the ability to pursue this and not put my livlihood in jeopardy. It is a big risk, but with big risk comes the potential for big reward. We'll see in the next few years if I can move forward with it. I really wasn't planning on talking about it much but I guess it doesn't hurt to put a few feelers out there and see what some of you think.

Jaden
 
Why in the hell would anyone want to pay to see professional pool. Hell, first tell me what constitutes the term "professional". I can pay an entry fee and actually go head-to-head with one (or more) of these so-called "professionals in many tournaments. Now I gotta ask, can you pay $$$ and put on a set of pads and get into an NFL game? Nope. Can you pay $$$ and suit up and get into an NBA game? Nope. Hockey? Nope. Baseball? Nope. NASCAR? Nope (at least not without going through certain "qualifications" via stock car/sprint/dirt track-type racing first). This is why many people pay to see the best of other sports. It's the only way to see it live. Why would I want to pay to watch a pool tournament when I could pay an entry fee and not only see it up close and personal, I could actually be INVOLVED in the show!!! Most serious pool players had rather be actually playing than watching.

Weird thing is, many times a virtual "nobody" will take down a seasoned "professional" in the type of tournaments where less-skilled players are allowed to enter and try their hand with the pros. Seen it many times on live streams. Now, do you think an amateur could hack it in the NFL, NBA, NHL, etc.??? Most definitely they COULD NOT. But in pool, sometimes it happens. Do you think a paying fan wants to see "Joe Average" take down a crowd favorite? Naw, probably not (though I myself think it's cool-as-hell when it happens). The problem with pool is, on any given day anybody can best anybody else and there is NEVER a clear cut "best player" that people can follow (like the Tiger Woods of yesteryear, Michael Jordan in the day, etc.). And once again I must say that poolplayers had rather play than watch!!!

Just my opinions. Not trying to start an argument.

Maniac
 
I was at a pro poker tournament in Reno a couple weeks ago and watching it live bored me to death.

But on television it is fascinating.

Pool needs to find a successful formula to make it interesting on TV.
 
we've already got serious pool players don't need them....

Why in the hell would anyone want to pay to see professional pool. Hell, first tell me what constitutes the term "professional". I can pay an entry fee and actually go head-to-head with one (or more) of these so-called "professionals in many tournaments. Now I gotta ask, can you pay $$$ and put on a set of pads and get into an NFL game? Nope. Can you pay $$$ and suit up and get into an NBA game? Nope. Hockey? Nope. Baseball? Nope. NASCAR? Nope (at least not without going through certain "qualifications" via stock car/sprint/dirt track-type racing first). This is why many people pay to see the best of other sports. It's the only way to see it live. Why would I want to pay to watch a pool tournament when I could pay an entry fee and not only see it up close and personal, I could actually be INVOLVED in the show!!! Most serious pool players had rather be actually playing than watching.

Weird thing is, many times a virtual "nobody" will take down a seasoned "professional" in the type of tournaments where less-skilled players are allowed to enter and try their hand with the pros. Seen it many times on live streams. Now, do you think an amateur could hack it in the NFL, NBA, NHL, etc.??? Most definitely they COULD NOT. But in pool, sometimes it happens. Do you think a paying fan wants to see "Joe Average" take down a crowd favorite? Naw, probably not (though I myself think it's cool-as-hell when it happens). The problem with pool is, on any given day anybody can best anybody else and there is NEVER a clear cut "best player" that people can follow (like the Tiger Woods of yesteryear, Michael Jordan in the day, etc.). And once again I must say that poolplayers had rather play than watch!!!

Just my opinions. Not trying to start an argument.

Maniac

The market isn't serious pool players, it's average joes...

We want bangers or even non players to come sit in seats...

How many football watchers EVER play football? Baseball? Basketball maybe 10% and that would be the highest....

TRying to cater and garner the attention of pool players will NEVER make pool successful. You want to garner the attention of the general public who might've picked up a cue in college to bang around with some friends...

Jaden
 
Bad antics certainly do not harm the game or any other. Alex Higgins was a huge reason why snooker became so big in the UK and he was much worse than Earl. As far as I remember Earl has never thrown his cue at the crowd or punched an official.

People will tune in to see controversial subject matter, it's that train wreck fascination. It's the reason why traffic slows to crawl when there is an accident and it isn't even impeding any of the lanes.

Reality tv sells because people tune in to see people act like idiots. The best selling ppv fights are often when both guys have been trash talking for weeks and especially if something like a fight at the weigh in occured. Controversy sells.

It seems as an industry Pool sweeps these things under the rug and pretend it doesn't happen. You can't buy the Alex vs. Darren 14.1 match from accu-stats. That match would probably get better ratings than a 200 and out.

Finally, we have to remember that people watch the players not the sport. Very few people in a group of fans are actually fans of the sport they are watching. In so far as a Golf fan isn't as likely to watch the Hooters pro tour on television as they are to tune in when Tiger is playing on PGA tour. The ratings prove this to be true. Boxing events with little known professionals are poorly attended. Same can be said for low ranking Tennis players.

We need to sell the players in order to get people to watch the sport.
 
TRying to cater and garner the attention of pool players will NEVER make pool successful. You want to garner the attention of the general public who might've picked up a cue in college to bang around with some friends...Jaden

This is such a great point. Not one but two poolrooms closed here in the Denver area over the last year.

Celebrities that play may be of some help to get attention. Paul Sorvino or Keifer Sutherland might be good people to try and contact in SoCal to possibly get your idea more exposure.
 
The market isn't serious pool players, it's average joes...

We want bangers or even non players to come sit in seats...

How many football watchers EVER play football? Baseball? Basketball maybe 10% and that would be the highest....

TRying to cater and garner the attention of pool players will NEVER make pool successful. You want to garner the attention of the general public who might've picked up a cue in college to bang around with some friends...

Jaden

On that note, a majority of hard core players are nits and would not spend the money to sit and watch anyway.
Most want everything for free and get mad when they have to fork over a dollar like everyone else.
 
Pool needs to find a successful formula to make it interesting on TV.

This is so true.

Like many on here, I enjoy watching pool on TV. I am a serious pool player and appreciate watching it. For the "not-so-serious" poolplayer, watching pool today may not be so exciting for them. And for the casual player or non-player, watching it on TV is just boring to them. Unfortunately, TV networks should not use our demographic of serious PP'ers to find answers to popularize "Pool". Sure... we can all tell the TV folks that we want Pool. But what do the TV networks want? Numbers, large numbers of viewers. This large number of viewers is not us. It's everyone else other than the serious PP'er.

So what's the formula to make pool exciting and interesting? I wish I had the answer. Maybe the answer lies not within our own community of serious poolplayers but within the general public around us who could care less (right now).

I think we should all start asking our "not-so-serious" poolplaying friends...

What would make watching pool on TV more exciting for you?

If we got enough people to answer this question, then maybe a successful formula could be developed to make pool exciting and interesting for ALL.

My 2 cents.

-Abe - i4pool
 
I keep hearing people say that pool doesn't have corporate multi-million dollar sponsorships because of players acting up and or getting into trouble etc...

I think the reason Corporate America is not sponsoring Pool is sponsoring either Amateur, or Pro Pool is a matter of Dollar & Cents.

The bean counters who tell the Executive of Corporate America where to spend their advertising dollars do a lot of research on groups of people they wish to spend their advertising dollars on.

Let talk about Pool Players, not the AZB Member with made a 1/4 or 1/2 Million Dollar Cue Collection, but the Average Pool Player who is a working stiff, has a low or average credit score, is in debt up to his or her eye balls, and let be diplomatic & say not on the fast track to own a home in the best neighborhood in your town.

Or as someone recently said to me, you have 12 Million Bucks to invest, GM has granted you a NEW Cadillas Dealership in the State of Georgia, and you only have two location to build you Dealership on.

Location #1 Across from the street from the Front Gate of the Augusta National Golf Club, in Augusta Georgia

Location # 2 Across from the street from the most successful Pool Room in America located in Downtown Atlanta Georgia.

If it were me I would build across from the Augusta National Golf Club, as Average Golfer, and those who follow Golf have more expendable income then the Average Pool Player.

 
Would players dumping so a 17-1 underdog wins the tournament qualify as bad behaviour ?
 
The market isn't serious pool players, it's average joes...

We want bangers or even non players to come sit in seats...

How many football watchers EVER play football? Baseball? Basketball maybe 10% and that would be the highest....

TRying to cater and garner the attention of pool players will NEVER make pool successful. You want to garner the attention of the general public who might've picked up a cue in college to bang around with some friends...

Jaden

Exactly what I was thinking Jaden. I couldn't get it down fast enough. I type slow. :embarrassed2:
 
I noticed in the up coming Blood Bath Strickland v/s Archer, "BUDWEISER" appears on the promo material, and I know at a recent Pool Torny in PHX AREA, at Main Street in Mesa.

"BUDWEISER" was on the promo material, and PROVIDED TROPHIES, so "BUDWEISER" is kind of in the loop.
 

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Part of the problem with pool on tv is that when done at the highest levels it looks too easy. While pool players can understand the skills involved a casual viewer never would. What gets more attention in a football game the 3 yard run up the middle or the "circus catch". In pool there are virtually no "circus catches". Just my opinion
 
How to fix pool?

I think of pool as a niche sport, and becoming more obscure by the year. People look at me funny when I say I'm an avid amateur player, like, "Do they still exist?"

What's needed is to first maintain what we have and slowly grow pool. I don't care if pool is ever televised again, though I love watching it. What I want is to be able to attend decent tournaments locally, other bigger events to travel to and have players to match up with. So many of the players I used to play are no longer playing. Advanced players who for one reason or another no longer play.

I really believe that there needs to be more for advanced amateurs to play for. Regional and national titles, ect. A system to foster players so there are milestones other than banger, shortstop and pro. We all know there's more levels than that.

Look at how well the APA is growing, certainly around here it is. Why not something for more advanced players that works? Not everyone can develop to the level of the pool elites, that is a falacy.
 
The APA is a good example of a market that hasn't been tapped properly yet.

Go to a room where APA is being played and ask everyone if they saw (or even heard about) the Earl/SVB match. A great majority of them will say Earl who? Who is SVB?

(I was pleasantly surprised to hear a couple of guys talking about the Earl/SVB match at league this week. As I was keeping score I didn't get a chance to go over and join the conversation, but it was cool to see that at least SOME of the people in my league division had some idea about it.)

I can say this without the slightest trace of APA bashing, because I am an APAer, and have had this discussion, or one similar, many times. Sometimes the people that reply with no clue amaze me. They are avid league players. They are INTO pool, the playing it part. They buy equipment. They know the basics (and often more) of the game, quite well.

APA is almost 300,00 people, all with an interest in pool. BCApl has another large group of people playing, as does TAP and VNEA, and the rest of the alphabet soup. There are A LOT of people playing, and an amazing number of them are not being actively marketed to. At least not by the people trying to promote the highest level of pool, looking for an audience. I truly believe it as a vast untapped resource.
 
"Pool's not in the dumps because of bad behaving players"

No sh!t, Earlock. Us hardcores are the only one's even talking about it. I didn't hear one peep on Sports Central or the Sunday Sports Final. Haven't heard Jim Rome talking about it either.

Maybe when pool has some popularity and success on television this debate could be meaningful. I'm not holding my breath.
 
Very Percptive, what about this????

Hey Jaden,
The no interest thing is 20/20 perception=crystal clear, (IMHO)
dig this;
I keep hearing people say that pool doesn't have corporate multi-million dollar sponsorships because of players acting up and or getting into trouble etc...
There is ONE reason and one reason ONLY that pool doesn't have huge corporate sponsorship and only limited sponsorship from corporations directly involved in the billiards industry.
It's that there's no money in it. If there was money to be made from professional billiards all the antics in the world wouldn't stop them from being involved

It's the disinterest in professional billiards that maintains the negative public perception. If people were interested in professional billiards, then it wouldn't matter.

Now the crux of the issue. How do you induce interest in professional billiards???

The idea that getting billiards televised is the answer is ridiculous. No other sport has gone to TV and been successful when so little physical interest in coming to see it live was there.

Whichever marketing strategy works will require successfully marketing billiards to a live audience before televised billiards can ever be successful.

Notice a theme there. People want to see Earl. Some because of his talent, some because of his antics and some because they want to see a world class player fall. It doesn't hurt the sport or prevent a sport from being successful, the only thing that does that is a lack of a customer base and the lack of profitibility in being involved and outlaying capital.



Jaden

No interest=No money! Answer, PERIOD!
Amateurs won't watch the pro's, studying their every move and perceptively learning to speak their language,
learning to think like them=PLAYING like them!

BUT WHO REALLY DOES THAT= A POOL NUT; someone:
(1) HOPELESSLY IN LOVE WITH MOVING THE BALLS ON THE FELT,
(2) ENDLESSLY PLAYING AND PRACTICING,,,,,,,
WAITING FOR THAT ALL IMPORTANT DAY, WHEN SOMEONE WILL MAKE A SPECIAL PLACE ON THE PLANET "SOFTER" FOR THEM,
TO LIVE IN COMFORT AND MAKE ALL THEIR DREAMS COME TRUE!
Symptoms of a poolnut,
the Disease, in it's most rabid form.

No REAL interest in POOL?????
If the definition of success in pool is anything beyond that of being,
"A POOL NUT," with MAD LOVE FOR THE GAME,"
In other words, "NOT" judged by the worlds standards (that which makes the most MONEY)
I'm afraid ALL IS LOST IN THIS SPORT!
But, You and JAM seem to agree on one thing,
the public likes Strickland=give more of the EARL SHOW!!!
Who knows, maybe there is a way to take this sport to another level, with challenge matches!:withstupid::rolleyes:
 
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