Post dated checks for final 8 at Master's

[JAM]

...To all the pool players that got post dated checks, call Barry's bank and verify funds before cashing. This way you won't get hit with any fees if they bounce.

In Virginia, if somebody takes you to court for a bounced check, the law dictates that you could be required to pay double the amount of the original check.

Truly, though, I do not believe Barry would do that to anyone, much less himself. If he wrote the check, he's going to follow through. That's what I believe, anyway.

 

[Zbotiman]

READ Jay's Post!

This post gets my award for the Lamest post in this thread. You say he pays out of his own pocket like he is doing everyone a big favor. Dude, if he said he is going to pay out a certain amount of money, then he better pay that money. Be it from his own pocket or whatever. He is not doing anyone a favor here. He is a business man, just like all other business men.

Before you talk trash you should get your facts straight. Since you do not seem capable, I will help you out a little here.
The galveston world classic advertised big added money, and then screwed everyone who went there and did not do what they said they would. They did not pay the amounts advertised.
The Masters and Open not only do not pay on time, but they change the payout on the spot and give post dated checks. Again, not doing what they advertised.
Now lets take the tourney that CSI put on. The cue olympics or something like that. CSI lost out BIG , but still paid cash as advertised and took the loss. No post dated checks and no bs. That is how it should be done. That is Mark putting his money where his mouth is.

I have to ask, wtf do you do for pool?. You are very quick to nut ride barry and trash mark. It is like everything in life. The TRUE good guys always get shitted on.

....I just came from the event where I worked all week for very little pay, my choice, my gift to pool! Listing the rest of my contributions, I'll leave that to those in the sport, who know me. As for the rest of "YOUR ass-----umptions," read Jay's post!

Griffin is buying the sport on the cheap, piece by piece, paying fair market value for it, NOTHING, and TALKING a big game about what he's gonna do, with the U.S.A. pool leagues.

BEHRMAN IS DOING IT NOW!

 

[JCIN]

Ironically, I have spoke to some players (active and retired), authors, and industry members who read this forum on an almost-daily basis but do not post.

I have no doubt of that. How many of them played the Masters? Your statement doesnt change the fact that the guys I know who played the event do not keep up with AZ. I do not see any irony.

 

[JustRackem]

....I just came from the event where I worked all week for very little pay, my choice, my gift to pool! Listing the rest of my contributions, I'll leave that to those in the sport, who know me. As for the rest of "YOUR ass-----umptions," read Jay's post!

Griffin is buying the sport on the cheap, piece by piece, paying fair market value for it, NOTHING, and TALKING a big game about what he's gonna do, with the U.S.A. pool leagues.

BEHRMAN IS DOING IT NOW!

You still don't get the point. Barry is a good guy and he does a lot for pool. I get that. But if you say you are going to pay then why should you get a pat on the back for doing it. Even if it is out of your own pocket. So what..just pay up like you said you would. It is very simple.

I have read all of the posts on this and I have never seen Mark attack anyone. I am sure he has more inside info on all of the drama than most of us. He is an insider and we are all just outsiders looking in. One thing that seems to get lost is that Mark is a pool player and loves the game. So I am going to assume that when he makes his posts, they come from a pool player who does not like to see other pool players taken advantage of.

You seem to like taking shots at Mark. Not only in your first post in this thread but also with the second post. Just remember this, you will not find one player who has ever played in a CSI event that has not been paid as advertised. I am sure that list is a very short one of promoters who can say that. I know that Barry is not on that list.

 

[Jesters]

....I just came from the event where I worked all week for very little pay, my choice, my gift to pool! Listing the rest of my contributions, I'll leave that to those in the sport, who know me. As for the rest of "YOUR ass-----umptions," read Jay's post!

Griffin is buying the sport on the cheap, piece by piece, paying fair market value for it, NOTHING, and TALKING a big game about what he's gonna do, with the U.S.A. pool leagues.

BEHRMAN IS DOING IT NOW!

Who are you? I ask because if you are going to leave it up to people who know you to blow your trumpet for you then we need to know who you are so the people can.

Barry has ran the Open for many years and the Open is a fixture on some peoples bucket list. He has done a great job of making his event one of the best in the world that all player would like to attend, play in or win. So I am not slamming him here, but Really the way you talk about him Vs Mark Griffin does not make sense. Lets face it What does Barry actually do? one event per year until the Masters and both of them are always paid late. So how many does Griffin do per year? how many are paid late? Yes the added money may be less but overall with all the events pay more than the US Open and the Masters combined. Again, I'm not knocking Barry B, I'm knocking you for trying to knock Griffin saying "Barry is doing it" You are way off base here.

 

[JCIN]

...well, to date, in these United States, No, one, person has done more to promote the last vestiges of Professional pool, than Barry Behrman with "H-I-S" tournament, the U.S. Open! He pays off when there is poor fan support, out of his own pocket!!! More to the point, he schedules his tournaments well in advance, and then makes good when the pool fans (not unlike yourself, apparently) don't show up to support the professional pool players and the ONLY event Left in this country with any kind of a heritage, the Open. AND GET THIS, to date, he's made good on his debts to the players!

Now he's started a new event, The Masters 10-ball. He's promised to give it a go again next year (even after the abysmal turnout). And get this, he still has the hope of building it into an event worthy of the name, The Masters. But alas, the spectators weren't supporting it this year. And still he has made the promissory notes to pay ALL the MONEY OWED, out of his own pocket!!!

To all naysayers, (like Mark Griffin for example) I say, where were you?

Why give someone who's PROVIDING: the field of play, putting the players on that field for the cash, and then PAYING them out of his own pocket, when all the pool playing enthusiasts in this country, B-I-T-*-H, but don't support the effort!

REALLY?

The World's economy is in the T-A-N-K, because of corrupt International Banking practices (like the repeal of Glass Steagal and the Federal Reserve System) and people don't take the time to find out what's really going on, and then do something constructive to change them!!! Pool is no different it seems, I guess the fans don't really care who the good guys in our sport are!

Barry Behrman is at least doing something to change the face of pool for the better, not just talking about doing something. Now he's starting another tradition, in a sport, where the fans, it seem to me, are unworthy and ungrateful of his efforts. If the new, The Masters 10-ball Tournament, turns out to be anything like the U.S.Open, Behrman will have BLESSED this sport once again!

To everyone of you who think it "should" be otherwise, PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!!!:nono:

Dude. Really ? When the players got aired in the last UPA event in Phoenix who stepped up and paid them 70% of what they were owed in cash out of his pocket for an event he had absolutely nothing to do with promoting. Here's a hint it wasn't Barry. You really need to get your facts straight about who is doing what in the pool world.

Turning this into a Mark vs Barry thing is retarded.

 

[JAM]

I have no doubt of that. How many of them played the Masters? Your statement doesnt change the fact that the guys I know who played the event do not keep up with AZ. I do not see any irony.

I was making a comment about the brethren of players as a whole, not only the competitors who competed in the Master's. I was in relax mode when I made the post, something I used to enjoy when I joined this forum in 2004. I feel like I'm in court when replying to some posts on this forum today.

Words in black and white may be misinterpreted. I will be sure to choose my words better next time, so as to ensure my thoughts are understood in the spirit in which I intended them to be.

 

[justadub]

Turning this into a Mark vs Barry thing is retarded.

+1! :yeah:

 

[JCIN]

....I just came from the event where I worked all week for very little pay, my choice, my gift to pool! Listing the rest of my contributions, I'll leave that to those in the sport, who know me. As for the rest of "YOUR ass-----umptions," read Jay's post!

Griffin is buying the sport on the cheap, piece by piece, paying fair market value for it, NOTHING, and TALKING a big game about what he's gonna do, with the U.S.A. pool leagues.

BEHRMAN IS DOING IT NOW!

Whats he doing? Holding 57 player events he can't pay for? Truly a way forward for pro pool in the US.

 

[beetle]

JCIN, I agree with most of your posts, but do take issue with this:

The fact that it completely turned the pool world upside down evidently doesn't matter though.

Isn't that hyperbole?

How exactly did it turn the whole pool world upside down? Sure, everyone had great expectations and were terribly disappointed that the IPT imploded because Trudeau clearly was too ambitious with the payouts.

But, like most new businesses (and pool tours), it failed after a couple years. That's it. The plan was aborted. You sound as if all the pros put their entire lives on hold during this time and were suddenly dumped out of a boat in the middle of the Atlantic with no other options.

Just because the IPT was a far more lucrative opportunity for many players while it lasted doesn't mean its disappearance is responsible for the current state of pool. It just means the IPT money isn't being pumped into pool anymore.

 

[JAM]

JCIN, I agree with most of your posts, but do take issue with this:



Isn't that hyperbole?

How exactly did it turn the whole pool world upside down? Sure, everyone had great expectations and were terribly disappointed that the IPT imploded because Trudeau clearly was too ambitious with the payouts.

But, like most new businesses (and pool tours), it failed after a couple years. That's it. The plan was aborted. You sound as if all the pros put their entire lives on hold during this time and were suddenly dumped out of a boat in the middle of the Atlantic with no other options.

Just because the IPT was a far more lucrative opportunity for many players while it lasted doesn't mean its disappearance is responsible for the current state of pool. It just means the IPT money isn't being pumped into pool anymore.

Well said, Steve! +1 :thumbup2:

 

[Jesters]

Whats he doing? Holding 57 player events he can't pay for? Truly a way forward for pro pool in the US.

LOL, exactly. Hell I can hold a 200 player event that I can't pay for too. Does that make me one of the people that are out there "Doing it" for the pool world?

 

[Mt. Cheverest]

I guess the rates at Q-Masters are going up....

 

[JCIN]

Before this thread spins off into outer space I want to say that I like Barry and respect what he has done with Open. I have seen a little of what barry goes through each year in hosting the Open and it is mind boggling to think he has been doing it for so long.

He is a passionate guy who wants to make things happen and I respect that. I just think everyone would be better off if all events, especially points events, were done on solid ground without relying on a bunch of things to fall into place in order for the pay outs to be met. This goes for all promoters. If this means not having a tournament because you can't raise the capital required to guarantee advertised payouts on schedule so be it.

One thing in the pool world that is getting scarce is dates. If a promoter schedules an event without the required funds needed and hopes to make it up on the come he shuts those dates out for anyone else who may have actually been able to do something with funding. The more it becomes accepted that late pay/slow pay is okay the more events will be scheduled hoping to make it up on the come and eating up dates. This is only one reason why the practice of under funded events is a bad idea.

 

[oldzilla]

I wonder would a Pool Summit do any good !

Barry, Mark, Seminoles, and Zuglan to name the first ones that come to mind. And whoever else needs to be there.

Decide on how to limit the fields and rank the players. Highest ranked players that sign up get to play. So the best get to play and the fields are limited to the best size. Then the commitments will be done in a good time frame and the fields will fill up.

Discuss the yearly calendar on a domestic and foriegn basis !

 

[JCIN]

JCIN, I agree with most of your posts, but do take issue with this:



Isn't that hyperbole?

How exactly did it turn the whole pool world upside down? Sure, everyone had great expectations and were terribly disappointed that the IPT imploded because Trudeau clearly was too ambitious with the payouts.

But, like most new businesses (and pool tours), it failed after a couple years. That's it. The plan was aborted. You sound as if all the pros put their entire lives on hold during this time and were suddenly dumped out of a boat in the middle of the Atlantic with no other options.

Just because the IPT was a far more lucrative opportunity for many players while it lasted doesn't mean its disappearance is responsible for the current state of pool. It just means the IPT money isn't being pumped into pool anymore.

Nowhere did I say the IPT was responsible for how things are in pool today.

Several people I know did turn their lives upside down. That is their choice of course and they live with the choices they made. You cant say that some serious confusion, anger, disappointment and embarrassment were not caused by the whole situation.

Go back to the hotels he aired and ask them if they are willing to host another pool event. Or ask the businesses he contracted with and slow payed or no payed if they would like to be involved with pool. The IPT fiasco is past us but some effects will last.

 

[JustRackem]

Nowhere did I say the IPT was responsible for how things are in pool today.

Several people I know did turn their lives upside down. That is their choice of course and they live with the choices they made. You cant say that some serious confusion, anger, disappointment and embarrassment were not caused by the whole situation.

Go back to the hotels he aired and ask them if they are willing to host another pool event. Or ask the businesses he contracted with and slow payed or no payed if they would like to be involved with pool. The IPT fiasco is past us but some effects will last.

This post is from a guy who see's the BIG picture. You seem to get it my friend. Just because someone has an event does not make it a good thing for pool. Just ask the peppermill if they are interested in having any future pool events in their hotel.

 

[JAM]

I wonder would a Pool Summit do any good !

Barry, Mark, Seminoles, and Zuglan to name the first ones that come to mind. And whoever else needs to be there.

Decide on how to limit the fields and rank the players. Highest ranked players that sign up get to play. So the best get to play and the fields are limited to the best size. Then the commitments will be done in a good time frame and the fields will fill up.

Discuss the yearly calendar on a domestic and foriegn basis !

While back, Mike Janis, et al., tried to get the N.U.T.S. going which had the goal of uniting the pool forces. I can't remember what N.U.T.S. stood for, but it was an interesting acronym. It didn't seem to take off as hoped. Not everybody believed in the same end result, I think.

The ethos of pool is hard to define. Over the years, the pool culture has closely scrutinized the conduct of various entities, though the actual competitors themselves are not quite as vocal.

The question that needs to be answered is how to get to where we all want to be aspirationally. There's not a clear-cut path.

 

[CrownCityCorey]

Before this thread spins off into outer space I want to say that I like Barry and respect what he has done with Open. I have seen a little of what barry goes through each year in hosting the Open and it is mind boggling to think he has been doing it for so long.

He is a passionate guy who wants to make things happen and I respect that. I just think everyone would be better off if all events, especially points events, were done on solid ground without relying on a bunch of things to fall into place in order for the pay outs to be met. This goes for all promoters. If this means not having a tournament because you can't raise the capital required to guarantee advertised payouts on schedule so be it.

One thing in the pool world that is getting scarce is dates. If a promoter schedules an event without the required funds needed and hopes to make it up on the come he shuts those dates out for anyone else who may have actually been able to do something with funding. The more it becomes accepted that late pay/slow pay is okay the more events will be scheduled hoping to make it up on the come and eating up dates. This is only one reason why the practice of under funded events is a bad idea.

...word...

 

[MikeM]

Based on your methods Trudeau is the best thing to ever happen to pool. He put more money in players pockets than anyone ever has. Took a couple years but most of it got paid. The fact that it completely turned the pool world upside down evidently doesn't matter though.

No one is hating on Barry. I like the guy. His passion for pool is undeniable. The posts made by Mark in this thread look to me like a promoter with more invested in the pro game than anyone else in this thread trying to make a point that this stuff has gone on too long and actually has come to be an accepted way of doing business. That way of doing business is detrimental to future opportunities.

As for where CSI was this weekend they were probably unpacking stuff from the USBTC where they added over $25K total and planning for May when they will have a $10K Added US Open One Pocket, $25K Added US Open 10 Ball and a little amateur event with about 7000 total entries that pays out $750,000 in total money. All of those events are paid in cash on site.

Besides who the hell said anyone has a responsibility to fund a pro tour? I swear some of the ideas people come up with just make me shake my head. Barry isn't the one you need to worry about getting tired of the BS and walking away.

I always thought you were the guy that hated it when people put words in others mouths, Justin. I don't think I ever hinted that Trudeau was the best thing ever or that ANYONE has a RESPONSIBILITY to fund a pro tour. I said that that is what is needed. To further flesh out that point - that is what is needed for pro pool players to make a LIVING out of pool. Until then people like Mark Griffin, Mike Zuglan, Shannon Dualton, AND Barry Behrman (and Justin Collett too) and others will have to fill in the gaps. The IPT was a debacle but his model was a good one. He just didn't have the cojones to follow through with it. Barry is there year after year contributing to pool. How can you equate the two?

Do you really think that what Barry tried to do with this tournament was a bad thing? Would you still think this was a bad way of doing business if he had a great gate, made money and paid everyone in cash? Of course not. He gambled and lost and is still going to make it right and you want to make him a pariah and put a stop to business methods.

My point about this past weekend was that CSI did NOT have an event and Barry did. Whatever they were doing, they weren't paying pool players. Barry was. However much money they add to pool it's not nearly enough and why even bring an AMATUER tournament into this discussion? Its irrelevant.

CSI is not providing a living for professional pool players. NOBODY can alone right now. For them to hate on Barry - and that IS exactly what they are doing is just plain bad form and as I said, beyond unprofessional. I don't see how you can say that no one is hating on Barry. Re-read the thread.

Again, what Mark and CSI do is fantastic. I hope that they expand exponentially. But, to have them come on here and bash Barry is uncalled for. It looks to me like they've got an axe to grind and saw an opportunity to stick it to Barry. Keep it positive. Players are getting money for playing pool. Maybe delayed, but getting paid. Not aired as others have said.