practicing with a pro when you are far from being one....

[Jimbojim]

as the title says, as an individual what does it do to you? Does it enhance your game or make it worse?

I find it a really nice learning experience but after a couple of times I realized that I never get the chance to really warm up during matches against my buddy (Danny Hewitt). Do you think on a long term scale it could worsen my game?

I plan to play in a tournament two classes above mine in 2 weeks, should I practice with players a little bit below my level or equal before the tournament for confidence or just fill my head with knowledge by playing Danny?

 

[9balllvr]

as the title says, as an individual what does it do to you? Does it enhance your game or make it worse?

I find it a really nice learning experience but after a couple of times I realized that I never get the chance to really warm up during matches against my buddy (Danny Hewitt). Do you think on a long term scale it could worsen my game?

I plan to play in a tournament two classes above mine in 2 weeks, should I practice with players a little bit below my level or equal before the tournament for confidence or just fill my head with knowledge by playing Danny?

just my personal experience, it can be very helpful and frustrating in the same regard. the information is valuable, but sometimes if you are not near that level, it doesn't compute. the one thing that has helped my game (when i am making an effort), is to watch higher caliber players compete, mainly in the men's arena. i always enjoyed Turning Stone myself (but it was close for me to visit, not to mention the gambling aspect was a bonus).

not sure if that helps, but it is my two cents nonetheless.

 

[Michael-Hoang]

Ideally, you want to practice with someone 1 or 2 balls ahead of you in warm ups and practice, particularly if you are getting ready for a tournament.

Depending on your skill level, if you are practicing with a pro who are SEVERAL levels ahead of you, you will spend 3% of your time racking, 80% warming up the chair, 15% kicking multiple rails, or something close to it.

 

[av84fun]

as the title says, as an individual what does it do to you? Does it enhance your game or make it worse?

I find it a really nice learning experience but after a couple of times I realized that I never get the chance to really warm up during matches against my buddy (Danny Hewitt). Do you think on a long term scale it could worsen my game?

I plan to play in a tournament two classes above mine in 2 weeks, should I practice with players a little bit below my level or equal before the tournament for confidence or just fill my head with knowledge by playing Danny?

It is a MAJOR benefit to play against championship players. Do it every chance you get. Being able to watch their shot selections, strategies and tactics is a lesson in itself if you only shoot a shot every other rack.

Play alternate breaks (the only reasonable way to play matches anyway) so you get AT LEAST one shot every other rack.

Sit there and predict how they will play every shot. You WILL learn at least one very important lesson during every session.

When playing world class players, I often use what I call my Junkman Strategy. If I am not AT LEAST a 90% favorite to make any given shot, I play safe...thereby leaving them with "junk."

I will lose safety battles (less so now because I practice a LOT of safeties) but it messes with their rhythm and they get frustrated.

If I get out of line, odds are I'm going to get worse out of line on subsequent shots (pros do quite often) and so, instead of trying heroics to get back in line, I'll look for an easy hook instead of tough position and risk missing the shot in the bargain.

But you can learn TONS simply by watching up close IF you dedicate yourself to doing so. Watch EVERY shot...Check out their stroke mechanics. Check out when, how and how much english they use.

Did they use a follow route when you would have used a draw route or vice versa? Figure out WHY they went the way they did. (getting down the line shape instead of crossing shape is the reason much of the time).

Try to figure out their routes several balls ahead and see if the champ elects the same route.

If you play with someone who is willing to explain themselves during a rack...i.e. a casual practice session that is worth its weight in gold.

Regards,
Jim

 

[Williebetmore]

as the title says, as an individual what does it do to you? Does it enhance your game or make it worse?

JJ,
I've been fortunate the past several years to have at least a weekly straight pool game with a pro (sometimes more often before tournaments). I think it has been a tremendous help for my game.

Yes, you will spend more time racking than usual; but that drawback is more than balanced by the amount you can learn if you are attentive (and hopefully the pro will offer some advice as well).

I agree with av84fun that the most important thing is to study the pro's stroke and rhythm/patterns/strategy. It is FAR more valuable if the pro will answer your questions (between racks is polite, though my friend will coach me during my inning, and ALWAYS discusses any interesting 14.1 positions as they occur). You always want to know WHY the pro did what they did - there is no sense in imitating the pro if they just made a strategic mistake.

As pool is a game that requires a level of precision that is NOT apparent to the casual observer; it helps if your pro realizes this, and can share strategies that he used to develop such precision (drills/stroke tips/practice strategies). Unless you have time to hit a million balls (which even then might not yield the results you wish), learning from the pro's is a tremendous shortcut to proficiency.

 

[Black-Balled]

You just tell that Hewitt to stop being such a bully.

 

[Fast Lenny]

as the title says, as an individual what does it do to you? Does it enhance your game or make it worse?

I find it a really nice learning experience but after a couple of times I realized that I never get the chance to really warm up during matches against my buddy (Danny Hewitt). Do you think on a long term scale it could worsen my game?

I plan to play in a tournament two classes above mine in 2 weeks, should I practice with players a little bit below my level or equal before the tournament for confidence or just fill my head with knowledge by playing Danny?

Does Danny still break with that crazy break?,it looks so strange,if you can get it on video. :smile:

 

[dbhattacharya]

Practicing with a pro

The best thing i feel is to hit a few balls on your own, get into some kind of rythm and then play whoever you can. I can only see you getting better if you play with someone like Danny....You might not get to shoot a lot but watching him closely on how he plays shape etc and trying to bring that into your game will only help you!

 

[mosconiac]

The fact that you "never get the chance to really warm up" is irrelevant. It's not what YOU are doing that is important...it's what THEY are doing. What you take away from those free lessons will last a lifetime...what you gain from getting warmed up will last that evening.

 

[bfdlad]

I think everyone so far has a good point and it can be good or bad for you. What I have found as far as a mental game is if I play with a pro consistantly when I am given an opportunity I have to make the best of it or I am pretty much done in that rack. So it makes me think more and play safe when needed and not just safe I mean real safe. So you take this mind set to you local tourney and I am amazed how many more chances I get at the table, so even when I messed up and I would usually be getting ready to rack I am given another chance at it. Great for your mental game.

 

[3andstop]

There's an old saying that a picture is worth a thousand words. If there is any truth to that, then watching a video of a professional player must be worth a million words.

Image what it's worth ( if you pay attention) to watch a pro play in person at your own private table. I think you should be happy you're not shooting. Take the opportunity to watch, learn and emulate and practice what you've learned at a later time.

 

[Williebetmore]

I realized that I never get the chance to really warm up during matches against my buddy

JJ,
I forgot to adress that point. Pool is NOT a game where you have a chance to warm up before each inning. For players such as myself that practice more than they play; developing the ability to bring your best stroke to the table for your first shot of the inning is TOUGH - but it is an absolutely essential skill to develop (and one that is difficult to "practice" on your own). Playing with the pro will give you ample opportunity to approach the table "cold" and have to come with a big shot or sit some more. Great experience if you view it correctly.

In straight pool, the periods of sitting can be long (not unusual for me to have to sit an hour or two between innings; I've gone as long as 4 hours without making a ball - very discouraging). It does force you to be relentless in your approach to every shot; and when it is your turn, jealously make the most of it.

 

[Jimbojim]

I played again with Danny and as fate would have it I played really bad again.
But I decided to be even more observing than I usually was and was wondering some things afterwards like (e.g. I know he played that shot with low-right hand english but I could never get an exit angle from the rail so pronounced!!! how does he do that?) and he would take the time between jokes to really explain and tell me what I did bad (e.g. you don't put enough spin Remy, you have to hit the ball as full as you can so spin will throw the ball even more that you initally imagined and then the cue ball action will really take on the rail)

Little insights like that really helped my game afterwards and when I practiced by myself after he left I also incorporated the closed bridge based his recommendation in my game and after 1 hour or playing with it I can really see the benefits.

Thank you guys for opening my eyes...and even if you don't post here Danny....Thank you and see you tomorrow.

 

[okinawa77]

Study your Opponent

I played again with Danny and as fate would have it I played really bad again.
But I decided to be even more observing than I usually was and was wondering some things afterwards like (e.g. I know he played that shot with low-right hand english but I could never get an exit angle from the rail so pronounced!!! how does he do that?) and he would take the time between jokes to really explain and tell me what I did bad (e.g. you don't put enough spin Remy, you have to hit the ball as full as you can so spin will throw the ball even more that you initally imagined and then the cue ball action will really take on the rail)

Little insights like that really helped my game afterwards and when I practiced by myself after he left I also incorporated the closed bridge based his recommendation in my game and after 1 hour or playing with it I can really see the benefits.

Thank you guys for opening my eyes...and even if you don't post here Danny....Thank you and see you tomorrow.

I challenge you to observe and find his areas of weakness. Most pros don't have many (if any).
But if you can find just one weakness and figure out how to turn it against him.....then competing against other players near your level with this skill will be advantageous.

For instance, some players have trouble with:
rail shots
long cut shots
bank shots
kick shots
ball clusters

I played with an "unknown" player that plays pro speed. We played one-handed 8 ball and Bank/Kick only 8 ball. When we were done, he just told me to keep shooting one-handed. From that one statement, I realized he was telling me to work on the mechanics on my stroke. He was right on the money. I made the necessary corrections and I, immediately, began stringing better runs.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

it is beneficial. why? because this makes you think several things like never underestimate your opponent, dont leave your opponent with certain shots (especially open shots) that he can make and run out. also, this is also a good time for you to learn certain shots from your opponent that you think weren't available or possible.it motivates you to do better and work on your mechanics, thereby widening your pool knowledge and skills.

the things that are important are the ones you learn from experience, especially the losses. if you are really into pool, you would be more than willing or encouraged to improve. to some who just simply quit, they aren't made for pool.

 

[Jimbojim]

it is beneficial. why? because this makes you think several things like never underestimate your opponent, dont leave your opponent with certain shots (especially open shots) that he can make and run out. also, this is also a good time for you to learn certain shots from your opponent that you think weren't available or possible.it motivates you to do better and work on your mechanics, thereby widening your pool knowledge and skills.

the things that are important are the ones you learn from experience, especially the losses. if you are really into pool, you would be more than willing or encouraged to improve. to some who just simply quit, they aren't made for pool.

I agree with your statement completely and I do intend to play with him every chances I will get. I wasn't saying all this because I thought it was a waste of time of course not, I was just worried about my confidence in shotmaking ability after playing against a pro but I played with other people between matches with him and fortunately (and obviously) I did play better than before because of all the small details but oh so important he passed on to me.

 

[hilla_hilla]

It is beneficial. It teaches you not to miss. The problem I have, I get to nervous and sweaty and have enough trouble trying to make a ball when I play by myself much less playing against a champion.

 

[av84fun]

I agree with your statement completely and I do intend to play with him every chances I will get. I wasn't saying all this because I thought it was a waste of time of course not, I was just worried about my confidence in shotmaking ability after playing against a pro but I played with other people between matches with him and fortunately (and obviously) I did play better than before because of all the small details but oh so important he passed on to me.

Pros..and all opponents are not permitted to climb up on the table when you are shooting so you can NEVER compete against an opponent...only against the balls on the table.

I know it's hard not to be intimidated and to isolate during a match against any player...and especailly a better one who will probably punish you when you miss.

But your GOAL is to forget about everything else in the world and especially your opponent when you are at the table.

Being able to isolate is a trait universal to all great champions. A few weeks ago I watched a TV match between Efren and Mika where they had to call the 9 Ball. BOTH players failed to call the 9 in spite of the fact that fans were YELLING at them to do so when they were bent over their shots.

They simply paid NO attention. It was AMAZING that it would happen to both players in the same match....but it did.

I'm serious as a heart attack when I suggest you get a friend to harrass the hell out of you when you are over some fairly easy shots...say 2 diamonds between CB and OB and OB to pocket with a 10 deg. cut angle.

Have them walk around the table when you're shooting...stand RIGHT behind you and clap their hands...anything crazy to distract you.

My pal bobby pickle used to wave his hand up and down 6 inches in front of my eyes during my warm-up strokes! If you can overcome that kind of distraction, you will eventually care a LOT less about whose butt's in the chair and a LOT more about committing to the shot.

Regards,
Jim

 

[softshot]

Pros..and all opponents are not permitted to climb up on the table when you are shooting so you can NEVER compete against an opponent...only against the balls on the table.

I know it's hard not to be intimidated and to isolate during a match against any player...and especailly a better one who will probably punish you when you miss.

But your GOAL is to forget about everything else in the world and especially your opponent when you are at the table.

Being able to isolate is a trait universal to all great champions. A few weeks ago I watched a TV match between Efren and Mika where they had to call the 9 Ball. BOTH players failed to call the 9 in spite of the fact that fans were YELLING at them to do so when they were bent over their shots.

They simply paid NO attention. It was AMAZING that it would happen to both players in the same match....but it did.

I'm serious as a heart attack when I suggest you get a friend to harrass the hell out of you when you are over some fairly easy shots...say 2 diamonds between CB and OB and OB to pocket with a 10 deg. cut angle.

Have them walk around the table when you're shooting...stand RIGHT behind you and clap their hands...anything crazy to distract you.

My pal bobby pickle used to wave his hand up and down 6 inches in front of my eyes during my warm-up strokes! If you can overcome that kind of distraction, you will eventually care a LOT less about whose butt's in the chair and a LOT more about committing to the shot.

Regards,
Jim

I have a freind who practices on his home table with three different radios tuned to three different stations all at the same volume.. and shoots like that for an hour.. once or twice a week..

.I tried it but it just gave me a headache LOL

Besides I have found a couple of toddlers in the room to be the best way to train with distractions LOL

 

[mullyman]

as the title says, as an individual what does it do to you? Does it enhance your game or make it worse?

I find it a really nice learning experience but after a couple of times I realized that I never get the chance to really warm up during matches against my buddy (Danny Hewitt). Do you think on a long term scale it could worsen my game?

I plan to play in a tournament two classes above mine in 2 weeks, should I practice with players a little bit below my level or equal before the tournament for confidence or just fill my head with knowledge by playing Danny?

Well, it's kind of a catch 22 here. Playing people below your level, or right around it, will give you time at the table shooting balls. Playing with higher calibre players will give you the benefit of watching and learning and asking for advice on things to practice later. I think if I was getting ready for a tournament I'd take the table time. For the long term I'd want the schooling with the higher level player. Good luck with whatever you decide.
MULLY