PRO PLAYERS AND INSTRUCTORS - Why the controversy?

Respect and civility?

Sorry, Stu, but you need to go back and read through his posting history. To CJ, disagreeing with him is tantamount to an "attack." Then his passive-aggressive MO is to mock those who have dared to disagree with him with silly pictures. Personally, I don't care about his condescending attitude but people shouldn't get sucked into believing his posting history here has been as pure as the driven snow.

Lou Figueroa

Hahaha Lou, you care way too much about what CJ does. Ever heard of a man crush?

In the last week alone, I have seen way more posts from members who swear that his teachings have tremendously helped their game, than I have ever read about what you've done to elevate anyone's pool journey.

And then to top it all off, you decide to ironically call someone else passive agressive when you're too chicken shit to agree to a free game from someone who offered you the six and out. Now you're just a keyboard warrior who chose against matching up to talk more crap about a world-class player on the forums. We need more people like that on AZB :D

How's that for respect and civility?
 
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Hahaha Lou, you care way too much about what CJ does. Ever heard of a man crush?

In the last week alone, I have seen way more posts from members who swear that his teachings have tremendously helped their game, than I have ever read about what you've done to elevate anyone's pool journey.

And then to top it all off, you decide to ironically call someone else passive agressive when you're too chicken shit to agree to a free game from someone who offered you the six and out. Now you're just a keyboard warrior who chose against matching up to talk more crap about a world-class player on the forums. We need more people like that on AZB :D

How's that for respect and civility?


"Ever heard of a man crush?"

"...you're too chicken shit"

"...you're just a keyboard warrior"

"...talk more crap"


Nice ;-)

Lou Figueroa
lol
 
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How about..........if you keep doing what you have been doing. Thanks for everything you contribute here.
 
TOI works because the Game is perfect - in geometry of table and roundness of ball

CJ, I don't don't often post here but I come here and read a lot. Your TOI technique has helped me a lot in my ball pocketing consistency. I have no desire to become a pro pool player at my age of 40. I enjoy playing the game and simply want to be as good as I am capable of being. Nothing more. I'm play in APA League and just a lowly SL7 in 8-Ball and SL8 in 9-Ball. I don't have a perfect stroke, nor do I care to spend thousands of hours trying to attempt to have a perfect stroke. So, when I read here and learn of something that can help me pocket balls a little better than I do now, can help me be a little more consistent than I am now, I give it a try. Especially when that advice is coming from a pro player in the field.

That said, I plan on buying your instructional DVD or downloads because I've already implemented some TOI on some of my shots to the best of my understanding and it has worked wonders so far.

Your story is one that makes my journey worth while. You have discovered the best thing about the Touch of Inside. No one should believe these claims from me, they're going to come from players like yourself, that want to enjoy the Game more, by playing the Game better.

You don't need a "perfect stroke" to use the TOI Technique, you just need to be able to make a straight in shot. If you can make a straight in shot you will then, using the TOI be able to create ANY other angle. No more thinking about ghost balls, contact points, geometry, or physics, just use the perfection that is already in the Game and allow it to play though you.


Using the TOI - look for that type shot and hit it. The Game becomes as easy as connecting the dots, point and click (the balls together).....very simple, very easy. TOI ONLY works because the table and balls are perfect geometrically -'The Game is the Teacher'
 
"Ever heard of a man crush?"

"...you're too chicken shit"

"...you're just a keyboard warrior"

"...talk more crap"


Nice ;-)

Lou Figueroa
lol

Evan... you stunned him speechless....clearly. Lou, sucks having truth rammed your way, eh?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 
Disagreeing with CJ is not tantamount to an attack. Calling him a scammer and snake oil salesman is, however, and that's what your crew has been quoted as saying. That's pretty much why your boy got banned.

Not sure how you think CJ can have a condescending attitude when he's on here all the time answering PMs for FREE helping strangers he doesn't know and never once put anyone on blast.

Funny, you described YOURSELF in your own post:

Sorry, Stu, but you need to go back and read through MY posting history. To ME, disagreeing with ME is tantamount to an "attack." Then MY passive-aggressive MO (you know, the: ;) )is to mock those who have dared to disagree with ME with passive-aggressive insults followed by smiley faces. Personally, I know you don't care about MY condescending attitude but people shouldn't get sucked into believing MY posting history here has been as pure as the driven snow.

Someone quote this so Lou can read. I'm in his bit-bucket, along with everyone who disagrees with him.
I'll quote it but i'm in his bit-bucket too so i don't know if it will help.
 
"Ever heard of a man crush?"

"...you're too chicken shit"

"...you're just a keyboard warrior"

"...talk more crap"


Nice ;-)

Lou Figueroa
lol

Well, Lou...you reported the post.

Ok, now what?

Is it true you didn't take up the offer to put your money where your mouth is and instead kept talking?

In billiards vernacular...what do they call the person...umm..bit...no..hit...nah...pit...so close..

BTW, Evan...you can't call him chicken ****.
 
Poster of the year!

Respect and civility?

Sorry, Stu, but you need to go back and read through his posting history. To CJ, disagreeing with him is tantamount to an "attack." Then his passive-aggressive MO is to mock those who have dared to disagree with him with silly pictures. Personally, I don't care about his condescending attitude but people shouldn't get sucked into believing his posting history here has been as pure as the driven snow.

Lou Figueroa

Disagreeing with CJ is not tantamount to an attack. Calling him a scammer and snake oil salesman is, however, and that's what your crew has been quoted as saying. That's pretty much why your boy got banned.

Not sure how you think CJ can have a condescending attitude when he's on here all the time answering PMs for FREE helping strangers he doesn't know and never once put anyone on blast.

Funny, you described YOURSELF in your own post:

Sorry, Stu, but you need to go back and read through MY posting history. To ME, disagreeing with ME is tantamount to an "attack." Then MY passive-aggressive MO (you know, the: ;) )is to mock those who have dared to disagree with ME with passive-aggressive insults followed by smiley faces. Personally, I know you don't care about MY condescending attitude but people shouldn't get sucked into believing MY posting history here has been as pure as the driven snow.

Someone quote this so Lou can read. I'm in his bit-bucket, along with everyone who disagrees with him.

Hahaha Lou, you care way too much about what CJ does. Ever heard of a man crush?

In the last week alone, I have seen way more posts from members who swear that his teachings have tremendously helped their game, than I have ever read about what you've done to elevate anyone's pool journey.

And then to top it all off, you decide to ironically call someone else passive agressive when you're too chicken shit to agree to a free game from someone who offered you the six and out. Now you're just a keyboard warrior who chose against matching up to talk more crap about a world-class player on the forums. We need more people like that on AZB :D

How's that for respect and civility?

Evan,
You knocked THIS one out of the ball park. I had to send you some green rep. :killingme: You are in the running for POSTER OF THE YEAR. :grin-square:
 
What exactly is a "man crush"?

Evan,
You knocked THIS one out of the ball park. I had to send you some green rep. :killingme: You are in the running for POSTER OF THE YEAR. :grin-square:

What exactly is a "man crush"? I"m not sure whether to be complimented or appalled. :shrug:

man-crush.jpg
 
CJ,
Here is a quote from Winston Churchill which may help.
There are many similar quotes on this subject but this is one of my favorites.

"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."

Tom
 
Well, Lou...you reported the post.

Ok, now what?

Is it true you didn't take up the offer to put your money where your mouth is and instead kept talking?

In billiards vernacular...what do they call the person...umm..bit...no..hit...nah...pit...so close..

BTW, Evan...you can't call him chicken ****.

Mr. Wilson are you calling lou a nit? Are you a moderator on this site? Thats not how I would expect a mod to behave.
 
Cj, you know the answer, you are just to nice a guy to say it. Its called knockers! You remember, the ones who would rather knock a game than get a jelly roll. How many times in your life did someone knock your action just to have someone else tell you they really didn't mean anything by it. I think there should be a rule, if you are going to disagree with a known good player, you should atleast have to show video's of your ability on the subject. I find it funny when someone who plays at a b level will argue with a player who could give them the last 4 or more. I think the lack of having a open mind keeps many people stuck at a certain level.
 
the internet Forum version of 'The Wizard of Oz' ... you guys figure out who's who

Cj, you know the answer, you are just to nice a guy to say it. Its called knockers! You remember, the ones who would rather knock a game than get a jelly roll. How many times in your life did someone knock your action just to have someone else tell you they really didn't mean anything by it. I think there should be a rule, if you are going to disagree with a known good player, you should atleast have to show video's of your ability on the subject. I find it funny when someone who plays at a b level will argue with a player who could give them the last 4 or more. I think the lack of having a open mind keeps many people stuck at a certain level.

I know, it's humerus isn't it. They've been bluffing everyone for years on here and never had to "put up". They will never produce a video because they can't produce one. It's just the internet Forum version of 'The Wizard of Oz' .... I"ll let you guys figure out who's who. ;) I"ll give a hint: None of them are instuctors....of pool anyway.
CLICK
 
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Let's make one thing clear CJ. Yes, I have "attacked" you. But ONLY in self defense AFTER you attacked me first. The fact that you take as an "attack" any disagreement with what you say is on you and you only. In EACH case of the above named people, you attacked and made slurs about us when we offered help or clarification on what you were trying to say. Many on here have seen it, and also, many on here feel you are a pro and should be free to post whatever you want with no one else saying a word about it unless it's positive.

Stan Shuffet, Max Eberle, John Brumback, Joe Tucker, yourself...(sorry to any I left out), you are all pros that post on here about instruction. John came on here with total humility and asked the instructors about a certain shot that he was going to have in his new DVD because he wanted to make sure that what he was saying was correct. You don't see the others getting attacked with the exception of Lou and Pat on Stan about CTE. So, it's not about "keeping pros away". Pros are more than welcome here, just don't expect to get idolized by everyone on here just because you are a pro. You get on here and your ego is so big you expect whatever you say to be taken as gospel when some of it just plain isn't correct. And, as soon as someone else points out that it is incorrect, you start insulting them and mocking them and making up nonsense about them. You did it to me, and to Scott also.

You see, for you it's an ego thing. For the rest of us, it's not. Sure, others have knocked Pat and me for ego, but they couldn't be farther from the truth on that. If it was ego, I wouldn't have erased over 9,000 posts from here. If it was ego, Pat wouldn't be so stubborn about what is reality. ONE thing Pat was wrong on is how CTE works. He never could get his head around it, but I do give him credit for standing his ground on his beliefs. The rest, he is seldom wrong on.

We both have one interest in mind, to actually help others play better. We make sure that whenever we give what is just our opinion, to make it clear it is just that. Most of what we post is just plain facts that can't be altered. We both believe that if you take and learn the facts of pool, what does what and why it does that, that one can then take from that and build themselves a real good game. And in a lot less time than just by feel. When you know what does what, your game doesn't drop much from not playing for a while. When you go just by feel, you can lose your game forever taking a break.

No pro is going to make anyone a champion on this forum. It's just not going to happen. One can know everything there is to know about pool, which happens to be quite a bit, and still not be a champion because knowing the actual physics of what happens and why is only the first step. With that knowledge, one knows how to make the ob and the cb do what they want it to do. But, as we all know, it takes many hours on the table to develop the touch to do it correctly. We all have heard of players that were better than world championship caliber on the practice table, but couldn't cut the mustard in competition. That is the part that actually makes a champion or not, the mental part. As you have stated, your killer instinct. Without that, one is stuck as a shortstop or low level pro.

Your TOI is a prime example of what I am talking about. For YOU, it has worked, and worked great. YOU found something that you think you do, and made the game simpler for YOU. However, what you fail to realize, is that what you think you are doing, and what you are actually doing is two different things. For YOU, that doesn't matter. It works, and works great. The problem arises when you start telling others about it. Whether in the true interest of wanting to help them or not. It's a problem because it doesn't fit reality of what happens on a pool table. It doesn't because you aren't doing what you think you are doing. So, when others try it, they start having problems with it. They have problems, because it just plain can't work the way you describe it. There are underlying principles that help them for a while, and some have actually said it helps them. However, in their descriptions of it, it's not what you say to do. They are helped not from a placebo effect, but because they started doing something they should have been doing all along, and that is staying closer to center cb.

You say you are good friends with Randy, if you think I am attacking here, you couldn't be more wrong. Go ask Randy what he really thinks about what you have posted about it. I don't believe there is an instructor on here that doesn't realize what you are actually doing, and why it has helped you, and at the same time, why it will hurt most on here. Most of your biggest fans on here have said that they had to give up on it because they couldn't get it to work the way you said it does. They can't get it to work as described, because it doesn't work as you described it.

It's not an attack saying you don't actually do what you think you are doing, 99% of people are the same way. You find what works for you, and odds are it's not really what you think it is. That's exactly why so many have trouble with drawing a ball, they simply aren't hitting the cb where they think they are. Scott asked you to have Randy film you and show you what you are actually looking at, your ego right away took it as an attack, when there was none. You want to help people play better, GREAT! Then don't go telling things that can't possibly be true, but tell them the truth about what actually happens. If you don't know what the truth is about how things actually work on a table, then stick with what you do know about, the mental aspect... which is the only thing that separates shortstops from the pros, and the pros from the elite pros.

You know as well as anybody, that there isn't a thing you can do on a table that a low level pro or shortstop can't also do except consistency. And that comes from the mind and solid fundamentals.

Now, this was all said soley in the context of a converstion. If you want to take it as another "attack", which it is not, that's on you, and anyone else that feels that it is another nube attacking a pro again. If that's really how any of you feel, well, there's not much I can do about that except to say "look at yourself, on why you feel the way you do".

Come on Neil..? Keep it Pithy as Bill "O'Really" might say....no one is going to take the time to read a diatribe? :boring2: What is this...part one of a three part Novela? Get a web-site.
 
I wasnt argueing that he isnt a nit I was surprised to see a mod call him one thats all.

:grin-square: I LOVE it when Mr. Wilson get's involved. He reminds me of Mr. Harris at my middle school...He had this big perforated paddle on his desk...he seldom used it.....:p
 
Your story is one that makes my journey worth while. You have discovered the best thing about the Touch of Inside. No one should believe these claims from me, they're going to come from players like yourself, that want to enjoy the Game more, by playing the Game better.

CJ, why don't you start a thread in a snooker forum, to get their views on how ToI works? They will provide an impartial review of your methods - they will not be starstruck as few will have even heard of you.

It could be an interesting experiment...

This forum is excellent.

http://www.thesnookerforum.co.uk/board/forumdisplay.php/11-Coaching-Questions
 
Well, Lou...you reported the post.

Ok, now what?

Is it true you didn't take up the offer to put your money where your mouth is and instead kept talking?

In billiards vernacular...what do they call the person...umm..bit...no..hit...nah...pit...so close..

BTW, Evan...you can't call him chicken ****.


Like I said , I had never used the little reporting icon thingie before and wanted to see what would happen. (I guess not much :-)

I have not challenged CJ so I don't know what you're talking about. I fully admit he is way out of my weight-class. Here's my response after he challenged me to play 10ball: And, lol, to CJ: ain't happening. First off, I learned long ago to not matchup with pros. I don't spend enough time on pool and I'm not good enough. I haven't played a rotation game in years -- anyone in St. Louis can vouch for this. My eyes are so bad now that I can only play 1pocket. Been that way for years. I'm one of those weak old guys with no aiming system and bad technique that just shuffles around the table and bunts all the balls uptable. You've seen the videos -- can't run 50 balls with multiple tries. The evidence is out there for everyone to see! Hell, a player of your caliber and accomplishments, what with your super-duper touch of english technique on every shot, could probably give an amateur like me 15-5 and I still wouldn't have a chance. Thanks for asking though ;-)

So, Dave Wilson, I guess you calling me a nit and all I should now call you out to "put your money where your mouth is" to play some 1pocket? I mean, since this seems to be the way it now works on AZ and us both being amateurs so at least it would be a little bit fairer than CJ woofing at me... Maybe we could get Big Truck to stream it or if you'll be in Vegas this July during CSI's big event we could get use of the TAR table? Bet TBD.

Lou Figueroa
 
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What do you call someone who starts a flame, adds fuel, watches it burn and *then* calls for help?

*then* calls for help?

Mike Howerton emailed this to me last year, after I contacted him about being banned for defending myself.

What you are failing to understand is that "fighting your own battles"
is exactly what I am trying to stop on the forums.
As I have said over
and over, I don't read all of the posts. I only see problems when
people report them. But when someone refuses to report threads because
they can "fight their own battles", then I see the battles being
fought and have to respond as best as I see fit.

Please, when you return from the ban, let me know when posts are a
problem instead of fighting your own battles.
The forum is not there
for battle fighting, it is supposed to be for constructive
conversation.

Mike



Do you see the problem here? It appears those of us that attract attention (ie actually have a personality) aren't allowed to defend ourselves, and, when we report abuse instead, are mocked by the moderators for doing what they told us to do in the first place!
 
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