Pro Pool Player & Pro Golfer

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Sure every table plays different but your not moving from table to table on every shot or dealing with the elements other than the ‘humidity’ and lighting in the room.
Humidity and lighting in a pool room is sissy stuff. Most don't know what it's like to be a real man on the golf course when getting caught at the furthest point from the clubhouse when the humidity is 100% from a torrential down pour and LIGHTNING cracking every 10 seconds that came out of nowhere with no shelters to be found!
 
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WobblyStroke

Well-known member
Standing over a golf ball with two hand on a vertical putter and having to line up based on a slope and speed towards a hole have nothing to do with standing behind a cueball and determining what part of the cueball is going to drive the object ball to a pocket on what is primarily a flat surface. Sure every table plays different but your not moving from table to table on every shot or dealing with the elements other than the ‘humidity’ and lighting in the room.
I think you missed the point of my post. I emphasized the overlap in terms of visualization requirements and experience building a stroke with a feel for speed control. Yes the details differ but the general stroke components you must build up for consistency are the same.

I teach both. For my own play, the general stroke concept I use for both pool and golf is the same. Obviously the details are different and it looks nothing alike, but there are stroke components that must be present for both and pool makes you aware of them. Having a good golfer for a pool student is a treat as there is a lot of overlap and they grasp things very easily due to their experience applying similar concepts to their golf games, whether we are talking about putting or their overall swing, maybe just the grip. A pool player for a golfing student....haven't been lucky enough to work with one, but my understanding of pool and the skills that help me play well transfer over to other sports as others have mentioned.

IMO, pool players should be better putters than the average population. If they aren't, they are either not as good as they think, or more likely, they simply aren't using the skill sets they developed in pool effectively for putting....something you see often in golf where even world class athletes forget to use their athleticism and somehow manage to suck at hitting a stationary ball while making millions hitting 90mph fastballs at their day job.
 

Cezar Morales

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Anyone know of a player that fits this description?

Is there any man that plays Both/Games at a Very High Level?
Yes but not exactly professional pool player
I heard Shaun Murphy’s the only person to achieve a
Hole in One in Golf, 147 in snooker and the equivalent of 147 or hole in one in darts ( dunno whats it termed )
 

Rickhem

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes but not exactly professional pool player
I heard Shaun Murphy’s the only person to achieve a
Hole in One in Golf, 147 in snooker and the equivalent of 147 or hole in one in darts ( dunno whats it termed )
The big deal in darts would be a 180. All three of your darts into the triple segment of the 20 slice on the dartboard.
 

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SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
I emphasized the overlap in terms of visualization requirements and experience building a stroke with a feel for speed control.
I teach both.
Are you saying that you're a professional golf instructor as well as a pool instructor?
IMO, pool players should be better putters than the average population.
I don't see why this would be the case. The stroke with pool is one handed. Golf uses both hands. (one can have nervous twitches aka the yips.) The stroke in pool goes backwards and forward straight to the target where the eyes are looking. The torso is also straighter to the target.
The stance is sideways to the target in golf (ball and hole) with the eyes angled sideways also.
A CB rolls straight on a pool table and consistent for speed. A golf ball can roll cockeyed because the green is sloped sideways and the grass is growing in one of four directions which affects the path of the ball and it can roll from slow to super fast.
One green can be completely different from the next...to the next..to the next over 18 holes.

Watch any pro golf tournament on TV and the top players can putt lights out on one day and like spastics on their next round.
Far, far too many variables putting in golf.
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
Are you saying that you're a professional golf instructor as well as a pool instructor?

I don't see why this would be the case. The stroke with pool is one handed. Golf uses both hands. (one can have nervous twitches aka the yips.) The stroke in pool goes backwards and forward straight to the target where the eyes are looking. The torso is also straighter to the target.
The stance is sideways to the target in golf (ball and hole) with the eyes angled sideways also.
A CB rolls straight on a pool table and consistent for speed. A golf ball can roll cockeyed because the green is sloped sideways and the grass is growing in one of four directions which affects the path of the ball and it can roll from slow to super fast.
One green can be completely different from the next...to the next..to the next over 18 holes.

Watch any pro golf tournament on TV and the top players can putt lights out on one day and like spastics on their next round.
Far, far too many variables putting in golf.
I'm not a golf pro but have had about 30 (paying) students over the past 5 years or so as either crossover from other sports I teach and word of mouth from those guys. I also picked up a handful of clients by just getting paired up with them in a random round. They ask a question, one thing leads to another and I'm giving them and their buddies some regular lessons. It's a fun side gig, but not my job.

Re the putting...
There's a reason I mentioned in my original post that pool players will still need someone to show them how to read greens. It's tough. but as far as building a putting stroke goes and one's ability to roll the ball on their intended line, pool players have a lot of advantages over the general population which I've mentioned above. There is a general skill set that applies to target games which is identical for the two 'sports'. Sure the details are very different as you've listed several. But the general construction of a stroke and even your stroke model/concept can be very similar (I've mentioned my general stroke model is identical for the two).
 

9BallKY

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I suck at golf and pool. That makes me a professional sucker at both.

I heard that J. Brumback was a very good golfer back in the day. I heard he was ok at pool to.
 

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Let me ask a question regarding golf and pool. It's the age old question - OB or CB last.

When you play golf what are you looking at when you swing? The target down the fairway or the golf ball? Duh.
When you putt in golf what are you looking at last? The hole/cup or the golf ball? Duh

Transfer that to pool and it's obvious what you should look at last - the CB.

r/DCP
 

WobblyStroke

Well-known member
Let me ask a question regarding golf and pool. It's the age old question - OB or CB last.

When you play golf what are you looking at when you swing? The target down the fairway or the golf ball? Duh.
When you putt in golf what are you looking at last? The hole/cup or the golf ball? Duh

Transfer that to pool and it's obvious what you should look at last - the CB.

r/DCP
It's not that simple.
Yes you look at the golf ball or the strip of grass at and just beyond the golf ball. However, your mind's eye is on releasing momentum towards your target. The target is your organizing visualization. When the target is the mental focus, momentum is sent through the ball towards the target. When the ball becomes the target, the body efficiently gets to that and people come over the top and get very steep in trying to hit the ball rather than through the ball.

Just so you don't think these are the musings of a for funzies part time golf instructor, the above is a paraphrase of Mike Malaska a PGA instructor of the year and former PGA tour pro. Most instructors at his level have this view on where you should be looking and where you should be focused. Shawn Clement, a Toronto boy and excellent instructor as well (also has a nice YouTube channel) says the same thing. And that's just to name a couple. A lot of top guys say this or something similar.

You might be interested to know that a lot of pro golfers look at the hole last on putts inside of 10feet. They perform better this way bc they already know and trust their setup will deliver the putter face into the ball. So they focus on their final target and the path the ball has to take to it. I guess they are the OB last guys of the golf world.

IMO, it doesn't nearly matter as much in pool as it does in golf where you look and where you focus. You can do a great job both ways. The CB last guys will have the advantage of hitting the CB where they want more often, but be left with no out if they messed up their aim or setup somehow. The OB last guys will have the advantage of subconscious adjustments coming to their rescue and making them alter their stroke path to come more in line with their intention to hit a shot rather than a spot on a ball in the event that it starts off line for whatever reason.

Personality and style comes into it as well I guess. Snooker level rigidity and locked down feeling in technique is very well suited to CB last. The flowy guys that routinely aim up a tip lower on the CB than where they hit would probably drive themselves mad if they actually had to see that going on and would change their (very reliable and excellent in its own way) technique.
 
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ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Anyone know of a player that fits this description?

Is there any man that plays Both/Games at a Very High Level?
There is not now or ever has been a player who was good enough at both pool and golf to play both at the highest level. Yes, some that may have had the athletic natural talent to have potentially attained pro level at the other if they had chosen that path, but they didn’t.

It just simply takes too much time, energy and 100% obsession and focus for 10-20+ years to achieve either at the highest level to think that someone could do both. A pro golfer could spot a scratch amateur golfer 2-3 strokes per 9 to make it an even match, and the same could be said for pool players.
 
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ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Been reading what seems to be a pretty honest book about Titanic Thompson. First thing I took out of it was that he was perhaps the best golfer in the world at one point, certainly very close to it, to the point he could beat anyone on a given day. He was infamous for one shot victories! This was playing corporate giants or the finest ringers they could bring in. He also had the hand/eye coordination to toss a half dollar at a quarter twenty feet away and land the quarter on the half dollar! No typo, the quarter would flip up onto the half dollar. He was about nine out of ten on that. He would make the bet at three tries. I have to admit that after verifying no gimmicks or tricks I would empty out on that one! This was the area he excelled, prop bets. He would spend endless hours making a proposition work, then usually make people think it was a spur of the moment idea.

Finally, there was Thompson the pool player. He could beat pretty much anyone that wasn't a pool player. The claim is that Fats took a million from him and then they went on the road together and Thompson made it all back. Anyway, Fats was the pool player of their combine and Ti acknowledged him his master at pool while Thompson could beat Fats at anything else. There were at least several dozen in the country that Fats had to duck or get a huge spot from. With Fats clearly better I suspect there were a hundred people in the country that could beat Ti playing even.

The thing is Ti was born twenty years too early or too late. Born twenty years or so earlier and he could have plied his trade coast to coast and never ran out of places and people to hustle. Born twenty years later and he would have been one of the legends of golf. The pro's were playing thirty-six holes of golf for maybe a five thousand dollar purse while he was shooting nine with some rich man for $30,000! Ti would also get some of the hottest young guns in golf to travel with him. Three months with Ti was likely to let you come home with more money than several years on the circuit paid. Some were too honorable to travel with him knowing that the score was in the setting up of suckers, all envied the money he made on a golf course!

As already noted by someone else, this was probably the last time we would have seen an elite pro at both golf and pool. The money in the games was much the same unless you were Titanic Thompson. Once golf took off and pool didn't, a person that could win on the golf tour or even play top 100 would be crazy to make pool more than an after hours activity. No idea today, but rumor in my youth had the pro's still doing a lot of gambling afterwards, but not on something that required a lot of physical tuning, cards and craps being more the games.

I forget how Ti stumbled into golf when he was already on the road. However, he loved the fresh air and sunshine, smoky pool rooms couldn't compete except for the cash! Funny thing, he hit a ball one day, went out and got a set of clubs at a hock shop the next day. That first set of clubs was right handed so he learned to play right handed despite being left handed. After he found out about left handers and left handed clubs he kept a set of both in his car trunk along with other tools of his trade. One of the things he excelled at was getting in with the money crowd so when he gambled he was winning nice chunks. The first day of play would be a fierce battle with Ti playing right handed and winning by one stroke natcherally. Ti being a kind fellow and a gentleman would offer to play them left handed the next day, for double or nothing or higher stakes! He had barely won right handed, they jumped all over a chance to play him with Ti shooting left handed.

Ti's biggest score snuck away from him. He spent months chasing Howard Hughes who fancied himself quite a golfer at the time and was considering going pro. Hughes deliberately ran Ti all over the place chasing him but had no intention of playing.

Today, I think playing golf or pool at the top level is a full time job. With generally piddling income from pool there is no incentive to put in the hours after putting in the hours to play golf at the top level.

Hu
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
True, but you can always handicap golf strokes. Even you could play Tiger woods in his prime with the right spot. Not a Fargo spot :).
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
True, but you can always handicap golf strokes. Even you could play Tiger woods in his prime with the right spot. Not a Fargo spot :).

I am pretty sure I would need the same spot as Tonya Harding. Maybe a double knee capping! I never minded hitting golf balls. Whacked a few on putt-putt courses when a date liked to. Had a driving range next to where I worked that I hit a bucket on a couple of times too when my partner wanted to. What I have never been inclined to do is hit a ball and then go chasing after it myself! I have played zero rounds of golf lifetime, plan to leave with that score!

A couple of the guys I gambled on a pool table with when I was a youngster tried to get me to come caddy at the golf course. They said there was nothing easier than hustling half drunken old men on a golf course! They mostly gave up pool for it. They were lads from the country club set and didn't understand I had never even been on a golf course.

Hu
 

pacemonster

"Billiard" Mike
Silver Member
Anyone know of a player that fits this description?

Is there any man that plays Both/Games at a Very High Level?
Dave Bollman was an All Navy golfer while in the service. Turned pro and played against the likes of Byron Nelson, Arnold Palmer, Sam Snead and others. Was also a top level pro pool player winning several big tourneys such as the McDermott One Pocket and 9 Ball tournaments. Was a pretty high ranked US player in the 80s as well. #5 if I remember correctly. Learned cue making from Tony at Black Boar and was close friends. RIP Dave!
 
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