The OP was blaming music at his pool hall.
Pro Pool Players Can't Make A Living!
- Thread starter TwinkleToes
- Start date
The OP was blaming music at his pool hall.
Banks
Banned
Damned kids, get off my lawn!
I like the tailgating and cheerleader idea, too. :thumbup:
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This is all just my opinion. The standard tournament format is pretty much tried and failed and that leads to people saying its not a spectator sport. It could be if presented differently. ESPN regularly shows stuff like spelling bees, hunting and fishing shows, competitive cup stacking etc that is about as boring as it gets unless you have a personal interest in those activities. So IMO the "not a spectator sport" logic fails. It has more to do with how its presented and money behind it.
This is where I think IPT and bonus ball had a good base concept, and I mentioned similar things years ago. You have to have a hook, something to get people not only interested in watching that "episode", but something to make them watch next week, and the week after and the week after. Having geographic teams gives people something they can get behind and root for. Adding something like a season concept and a points race gives viewers something they can follow through to a conclusion as opposed to the one time tournament format of heres your winner. If you can get a series of point based tournaments going based throughout the country it adds the "coming soon to a town near you" aspect. Something like a Denver 10 Ball Classic, the Florida 8 Ball masters etc etc etc. You build interest and give viewers something to look forward to and root for. Combine that concept with a corporate sponsor such as Budweiser and some flashy editing and sets/logos etc then IMO you have something thats sellable to the public. Pool has never been packaged correctly IMO. Its a marketing problem vs the product itself.
From there you can tie advertising amateur pool leagues and instruction into the program. Basically laying the groundwork for growth of not only the game, but the tv product as well. One of the big reasons poker took off was the anybody could win theory. Well, thats not true, it takes more than luck to win a WSOP bracelet. But look how much exposure the game got, and all the poker rooms and poker tournaments that popped up all over the place. Its in the marketing and salesmanship of the product. Pool can do the same thing, but as a game, tight pockets where the pros are reluctant to try a runout isnt going to work.
Then you have the worldwide game to factor into the mix. China is coming on strong, the Philippines have been a hot bed for a long time. The Europeans have a strong field..... The possibilities are there for success, but the old white and black print generic box that says "POOL" on the front of it wont sell. JMHO
Chuck
This is where I think IPT and bonus ball had a good base concept, and I mentioned similar things years ago. You have to have a hook, something to get people not only interested in watching that "episode", but something to make them watch next week, and the week after and the week after. Having geographic teams gives people something they can get behind and root for. Adding something like a season concept and a points race gives viewers something they can follow through to a conclusion as opposed to the one time tournament format of heres your winner. If you can get a series of point based tournaments going based throughout the country it adds the "coming soon to a town near you" aspect. Something like a Denver 10 Ball Classic, the Florida 8 Ball masters etc etc etc. You build interest and give viewers something to look forward to and root for. Combine that concept with a corporate sponsor such as Budweiser and some flashy editing and sets/logos etc then IMO you have something thats sellable to the public. Pool has never been packaged correctly IMO. Its a marketing problem vs the product itself.
From there you can tie advertising amateur pool leagues and instruction into the program. Basically laying the groundwork for growth of not only the game, but the tv product as well. One of the big reasons poker took off was the anybody could win theory. Well, thats not true, it takes more than luck to win a WSOP bracelet. But look how much exposure the game got, and all the poker rooms and poker tournaments that popped up all over the place. Its in the marketing and salesmanship of the product. Pool can do the same thing, but as a game, tight pockets where the pros are reluctant to try a runout isnt going to work.
Then you have the worldwide game to factor into the mix. China is coming on strong, the Philippines have been a hot bed for a long time. The Europeans have a strong field..... The possibilities are there for success, but the old white and black print generic box that says "POOL" on the front of it wont sell. JMHO
Chuck
While I think there's definitely still a need and place for individual tournaments at the highest level, I also agree with much of what you've written here...
Think about what it would be like to have local billiard clubs who roll up to nationally sanctioned league with clubs having the opportunity to be part of local, city, and state/regional levels. Clubs can be members only clubs, or an organized club that operates from a pool hall. Teams need to be prepared to travel to other locations half the time, and host the other half. Make the stratifications based on performance baled talent such that the top two or three club teams in their "level" advance up to the next level at the end of the season, and the weaker teams from the upper levels "drop" to a lower stratification level. So, the carrot and the end of the stick each season is moving up to a higher level of completion and new places to travel to... An individual pool club can have multiple teams in the different levels, but each "new" team has to start from the lowest level and earn it's way up to the next level...
It's a cool concept to think about, but distances in the USA would make State and Regional league team matches financially and logistically difficult, if not prohibitive.
Oh, and for the record, I think the OP made some great points in his rant... Let's face it, pool doesn't have a stellar reputation. How do we change that?
It's very simple. Pool is not that popular, and people don't like to watch it. Because of that, their is no big avenue fto draw sponsors or large crowds that bring in enough revenue to drive up the purses. I really don't think it is anymore than that.
ive read and wrote on this and similar, I've come to the conclusion that pool players who are not SVB, or whoever is number one at the moment should just get a job and play pool on the side, so that we don't have people begging for them to raise money for them to go to tourneys. sad but it is what it is as they say. most of us in this forum work and play pool as a hobby, and there's a few here that if they were so inclined they can work on their game and be considred "pro" players, but they decided to have a wife and kids and be a productive and responsible man/woman. there's plenty of other sports who are in similar situation, heres a list of some off the top of my head
1: cup stacking
2:dodgeball
3:ultimate freesbee
4: darts
5:curling
6:thumb wrestling
7: rock paper scissors
8:dwarf throwing
9: any female sport
10: quidditch
11:snake charming
well, you get it. its hard out there.
1: cup stacking
2:dodgeball
3:ultimate freesbee
4: darts
5:curling
6:thumb wrestling
7: rock paper scissors
8:dwarf throwing
9: any female sport
10: quidditch
11:snake charming
well, you get it. its hard out there.
snarzberry
Registered
People don't buy what you do they buy why you do it.
Repeat that to yourself five times and then think about why the Mosconi Cup (leaving the anomaly of last year aside) is such a gripping spectacle even though the quality of pool is generally lower than other tournaments. People don't buy what you do they buy why you do it. What charges people up, inspires them, energises them is not the 'I have a Plan' speech, it's the 'I have a Dream' speech.
Earlier in the thread someone touched on one of the reasons that pool suffers so badly as a spectacle. The entire enterprise is packaged and marketed all wrong, except for the MC which is usually fantastic viewing for this exact reason; viewers are invested in the 'why' and not the 'what'. Commentators that spend the entire time trying to explain the technicalities of each move and predict which shot will be chosen next is all wrong from a marketing point of view because people don't buy that as a product, it's boring. They want a human story, drama, excitement.
I recommend anyone interested checking out this brilliant TED talk on this subject
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp0HIF3SfI4
Think about the golden age of snooker where 18 million viewers in the UK were up after midnight watching the WC final on live tv, many of them old grannies and your average mums. They weren't emotionally invested as fans because they got really fired up by seeing a perfectly executed deep screw shot with reverse side, they cared about the players, the characters, the clothes, the pressure, the story etc.
I don't know how to make all this magically transform pool into a profitable product, but I'd suggest that the MC is on the right track so we should look there for hints. Pool has a marketing problem, a culture problem.
Repeat that to yourself five times and then think about why the Mosconi Cup (leaving the anomaly of last year aside) is such a gripping spectacle even though the quality of pool is generally lower than other tournaments. People don't buy what you do they buy why you do it. What charges people up, inspires them, energises them is not the 'I have a Plan' speech, it's the 'I have a Dream' speech.
Earlier in the thread someone touched on one of the reasons that pool suffers so badly as a spectacle. The entire enterprise is packaged and marketed all wrong, except for the MC which is usually fantastic viewing for this exact reason; viewers are invested in the 'why' and not the 'what'. Commentators that spend the entire time trying to explain the technicalities of each move and predict which shot will be chosen next is all wrong from a marketing point of view because people don't buy that as a product, it's boring. They want a human story, drama, excitement.
I recommend anyone interested checking out this brilliant TED talk on this subject
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp0HIF3SfI4
Think about the golden age of snooker where 18 million viewers in the UK were up after midnight watching the WC final on live tv, many of them old grannies and your average mums. They weren't emotionally invested as fans because they got really fired up by seeing a perfectly executed deep screw shot with reverse side, they cared about the players, the characters, the clothes, the pressure, the story etc.
I don't know how to make all this magically transform pool into a profitable product, but I'd suggest that the MC is on the right track so we should look there for hints. Pool has a marketing problem, a culture problem.
i like this answer. it's true in popular sports too. look at golf, who the fuc watches golf?? bc they watch tiger woods.
Old Nine Baller
Banned
1. First of all, there is no such thing as "professional poolplayers" in America. There are many lazy, unemployed men who avoid life by playing pool.
2. None of these men would give a damn if you couldn't earn a living so why should anyone care if they can?
Those are my opinions, thanks for asking though.
P.S. The most brilliant minds on the planet do not know what causes gravity or how it's transmitted to objects. I believe it was discovered by CJ when he was sitting under an Orange Tree and a 5 ball fell on his head
.ONB
Mike Massey gives back 24/7....He gives soooooooo much that people come to see him as much as they come to see his play. If you don't give in life, you'll never receive. And if you expect something when you give, you've got it all wrong.
Jaetee,
You touched on about everything that I think drives the point home for a "Pool Club Revolution." I definitely could see a clearer pathway from the Pool Club level, into leagues and further levels of competition but most importantly I see Pool Club as a way to bring people in and capture their attention and alert them to how much fun can be had when playing pool. Pool must be fun I played One Pocket all night last night and its a habit you can take into old age. The OP is right as you suggest we have some changes to make and attracting a higher demographic should be a part of it, then maybe you will see some changes in how the public starts thinking about Pool in general. Changes will bring about the attention of corporate interests as to the return of sponsorship.
This is no small change. Its a huge change and its going to take some involvement from people who love the game and want to see their local rooms prosper. If people are motivated by Fun then things become possible. I do think its possible to find sponsorship for Pool Club but that will come later on. I see it as a way for Pool Leagues to pay the owners back a little for the time their teams take to play their matches on his tables. Here where I live I don't know of any teams that pay the owners of the Pool Rooms anything for their matches but yet they come play each week and several times at that.
The way that pool is going with Rooms closing. What would be wrong in helping the Room owners subsidize a day when Pool Club is had and people come in free. It takes help to run something so that people have a good time. This may be a fairly unpopular view that I have but the fact is that many of the Pool Leagues have used the Pool Rooms and returned little for it at times.
I see the Pool Club Concept as a way for the Pool League Systems to compete against one another. If you want an area, you sponsor Pool Clubs in the Pool Rooms. When you do that and you come to the owner and ask him or her if you can run Team Pool out of it the answer should be a resounding....Yes!
That puts The Pool Room Owner, The Pool Clubs, The Pool Teams, The Local Tournaments, The Semi-Professional Events and the Pro Events all in a nice lineup sort of an established Chain of Supervision.
All that is left is for their to be a point system devised that would allow Players to progress to the levels and when there are enough people trying to advance to those levels then the numbers needed to advance to them start to have true meaning.
The Pool Club Concept is the missing link in what we have going today but we can postulate in print a lot but putting it into practice is what is really needed.
Sponsorship would be a nice way of making sure it happens.
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And after all that has been written, the second post of thread is the winner.
I believe there are many players that travel the country and others the world. As far as I know. None are homeless. Some might not make a lot from tournaments but that doesn't mean the don't have other avenues of revenue from being a pro player. Not sure anyone knows how much pros make. Just what they see listed on here.
sorry Robin, I couldn't resist.
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I think the reason you see many of those oddball sports on TV is because someone actually films them. For the most part pool is never filmed in a quality that it could even be pitched or sold to a TV network. In other words, we have no actual product to sell. The tournaments take place in a vacuum with little visual record they took place.
Thats true but on a sub cultural scale it can be much better. It does not have to be golf to be successful. There are enough people who like pool to support it on a small level.
Take something like bass fishing for example. I don't think many people would pay to watch someone fish, but they are organized and in their little world are very successful.
There must be some kind of formula out there that would work with pool. I think it has to start on a local level much like it is now with small local tours.
These tours then could be organized into a larger organization.
I guess I am talking about a structure much like the bar leagues except for semi pro pool. It can then grow from there over time.
No Offense Taken
Tim,
I have to agree with you but the organization that I speak of involves a few basic things.
You find a room that wants business, you create a Pool Club designed to bring in New Customers, that pretty well it.
What it could be down the road is anyones guess but any of the better ideas that have talked about here on the Forums are possible once Pool Clubs are formed and it doesn't have to always be something that is highly organized in fact it wouldn't be it would be between the Room Owner and the Guy or Girl helping him with it.
That's it.
Anything that could come later, would if it were wanted such as competition organized by the Rooms or the Pool League System.
I get very well what you are eluding to and I ditto that which is why I included the parts about Sponsorship. A Room Owner is going to have to be motivated to make it work and a guy like me and come in and talk to him and likely he will have to think about it a long time.
However, if a Sponsor said: Hey if you will run Pool Club at your place once a month you send me a report of what you did, and share the email addresses for the customers that you collect and I will supplement your pool time for say $50. That would gain a room owners attention and it would be worth to him to give it a try. Whats he got to lose? Pretty much nothing.
Anyway you make a valid point and I recognize it. I do think that the approach is the key. I think the Pool Club Concept using the existing rooms we have is the great concept that pool has been looking for but I don't think it will move an inch without people behind it and that includes the leaders of the Industry.
Any good idea seems to be lost on the idea that I might have to actually do something to make it happen, yet people wring their hands and say...what will it take to improve pool and when it comes up they wait for someone to do it for them.
Its just a whole lot easier to turn the key in the door to Alcohol Sales, that doesn't take as much effort and is one of the big reasons things are like they are.
We could use a better demographic, so why cant we just invite it to come have fun?
That's just too simple and makes too much sense.
Tim,
I have to agree with you but the organization that I speak of involves a few basic things.
You find a room that wants business, you create a Pool Club designed to bring in New Customers, that pretty well it.
What it could be down the road is anyones guess but any of the better ideas that have talked about here on the Forums are possible once Pool Clubs are formed and it doesn't have to always be something that is highly organized in fact it wouldn't be it would be between the Room Owner and the Guy or Girl helping him with it.
That's it.
Anything that could come later, would if it were wanted such as competition organized by the Rooms or the Pool League System.
I get very well what you are eluding to and I ditto that which is why I included the parts about Sponsorship. A Room Owner is going to have to be motivated to make it work and a guy like me and come in and talk to him and likely he will have to think about it a long time.
However, if a Sponsor said: Hey if you will run Pool Club at your place once a month you send me a report of what you did, and share the email addresses for the customers that you collect and I will supplement your pool time for say $50. That would gain a room owners attention and it would be worth to him to give it a try. Whats he got to lose? Pretty much nothing.
Anyway you make a valid point and I recognize it. I do think that the approach is the key. I think the Pool Club Concept using the existing rooms we have is the great concept that pool has been looking for but I don't think it will move an inch without people behind it and that includes the leaders of the Industry.
Any good idea seems to be lost on the idea that I might have to actually do something to make it happen, yet people wring their hands and say...what will it take to improve pool and when it comes up they wait for someone to do it for them.
Its just a whole lot easier to turn the key in the door to Alcohol Sales, that doesn't take as much effort and is one of the big reasons things are like they are.
We could use a better demographic, so why cant we just invite it to come have fun?
That's just too simple and makes too much sense.
ladies and gentlemen,
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giving back is great but i just don't see it helping pool which is what you implied and what this topic has been all about.
BTW-Mike Massey gets paid and didnt he make 5 9 balls on the break in one match of a 'rack your own ' tourny?
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