Pro with worst stroke?
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scottycoyote said:
You have got to be kidding me. Efren and Bustamante have two of the most beautiful strokes I've ever seen. I wouldn't reccomend anyone copy their techniques, but their cueing action is superb. Luat has a great stroke too, he is smooth as silk.
I dunno what people are looking at.cuetechasaurus said:
Efren's stroke is no longer loopy.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GyCdVbHcPpA
He does rise a little on the final stroke and he lets the cue go but the tip goest thru whitey perfectly.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GyCdVbHcPpA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CQPGzwcuy3w
Busta shows you only need the index finger and thumb to cue.
The all time strangest stroke I ever saw was Cisero Murphy's. He came to a complete stop at the top of his back swing, hesitated, gave the cue a little hitch upward and then proceeded to follow through. It was agonizing to watch, and yet he made every ball. It worked for him.
I don't think anyone ever tried to copy Cisero's stroke, for good reason.
I don't think anyone ever tried to copy Cisero's stroke, for good reason.
Worst Stroke Men/Women
I am not a huge fan of compact strokes.....
Men - Allen Hopkins, Chao Fong-Pang, Luc Salvas (I can understand by how fast he goes, so I really shouldn't put him here)
Women - Jullie Kelly (she doesn't have a backstroke
), Helena Thornfelt (When playing Jasmin in the Enjoy Pool 9-ball tournament; but I know she's done better in the past)
I am not a huge fan of compact strokes.....
Men - Allen Hopkins, Chao Fong-Pang, Luc Salvas (I can understand by how fast he goes, so I really shouldn't put him here)
Women - Jullie Kelly (she doesn't have a backstroke
), Helena Thornfelt (When playing Jasmin in the Enjoy Pool 9-ball tournament; but I know she's done better in the past)JoeyInCali said:I dunno what people are looking at.
Efren's stroke is no longer loopy.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GyCdVbHcPpA
He does rise a little on the final stroke and he lets the cue go but the tip goest thru whitey perfectly.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GyCdVbHcPpA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CQPGzwcuy3w
Busta shows you only need the index finger and thumb to cue.
Good post. Efren's stance and stroke have changed over time. Efren used to stand with both legs bent, now he has his back leg straight, and his front leg bent slightly. His stroke has gotten much more compact too. Videos of him in the late 80's and early 90's, he had a very long bridge. Now it's quite a bit shorter, but still gets the job done.
Bustamante has changed his style a bit too, from what I've noticed. He used to cue to the side of the ball on nearly every shot, then go thru the center. Now on many shots he just cues on the center and stays there, but on certain cut shots he still does that off center cueing.
TATE said:
I never knew he played straight pool that good. I figured he was just a 9ball player, but I guess he does have that touch for 14.1.
His stroke is so weird...he has a 2 inch backstroke with his elbow, but his shoulder lifts his elbow which gives him a long back stroke. And his forward stroke is the same, he uses his shoulder for everything it seems. But the guy sure can shoot well. I wonder how he stuck with those mechanics when he was an up and coming player. I would have figured that some top players or instructors that saw his talent would have tried to change his mechanics before he became a great player.
Morro, Hopkins, Keither
Pei Wei Chang
He made it to the WPC finals, and he's a very good player, but that stroke makes my skin crawl. He grips the cue so tight and doesn't use his forearm to draw the cue back, he just flicks his wrist back and snaps it forward. I remember the commentators at the 2004 WPC were really caught up with how unconventional Chang's stroke was. Think it was Steve Davis.
He made it to the WPC finals, and he's a very good player, but that stroke makes my skin crawl. He grips the cue so tight and doesn't use his forearm to draw the cue back, he just flicks his wrist back and snaps it forward. I remember the commentators at the 2004 WPC were really caught up with how unconventional Chang's stroke was. Think it was Steve Davis.
Any votes for Varner's new side to side wobble stroke?
Most beautiful stroke I saw was Choo Choo Coltrain b4 he had that wobble.
Absolutely to die for smooth stroke.
Most beautiful stroke I saw was Choo Choo Coltrain b4 he had that wobble.
Absolutely to die for smooth stroke.
Klopek said:
Yeah, I was surprised at how often he jacks up his cue also. He uses a long bridge with a short jabby stroke. I didn't think his pocketing ability was that great, because he would hit alot of shots roughly, and the pockets were accepting them in the WPC '04. I saw him play in one of those Asian 9ball tourneys, I think it was on youtube, and on tighter pockets he was playing a little looser, and was pocketing balls real clean. I think during the WPC he was just nervous, and resorted to a cinch stroke. Pagulayan did the same thing when he lost to Hohmann in the '03 WPC. He used real short jabby strokes. I think the reason why is because he said the night before, he got no sleep and his stomach was in knots. I also heard that he stayed up partying because he thought he was a shoe-in to win it that year, since Hohmann was an unknown. Maybe he figured Hohmann would dog it in the finals? All I know is Thorsten shot lights out, he didn't seem to get nervous at all.
jay helfert said:
At the top of his back swing? To much Golf. LOL
But I agree Jay, you would just have to watch him to get the full effect. Talk about pause, Cisero would make Allison and Buddy look fast. I use to say I could have lunch before he started forward. The man could play though so what ever works.
Rod
Hey how about a great smooth stroke with his head shaking so bad it dosen't look possible to keep from a miscue every rack. Bill Anderson played awesome 5 or 6 years ago in Georgia area and since moved to Texas I think, he had great concentration even with his head moving at least a inch side to side nonstop.Does anyone remember him?
cuetechasaurus said:
I was surprised about his straight pool too. In fact, it always surprises me when the newer guns like John Schmidt play great straight pool because the game was basically dead 25 years ago.
We look at a lot of preliminary things, but when it comes right down to it, at impact and through the ball, the whole thing is to have a repeatable, predictable stroke. There is no right or wrong, there's only accuracy and ball control.
I know that Fong Pang Chao has been mentioned here. His final stroke back and through the cueball is a thing of beauty, looking nothing like the stuttering, shaking preliminary strokes. Mike Davis and Efren look like their hinges have more oil and ball bearings than the next guy, they are both so smooth we should call it gliding, not stroking.
Allen Hopkins, Keith McCready and all these players have proven their point. They've developed a unique, non-textbook style oriented towards results. Their mechanics evolved accordingly.
Fortunately they all had the fortitude and wherewithal to resist trying to to change to conventional mechanics which probably would have limited their success.
Chris
He hada slipstroke correct Jay?A good player whom i go to his room shoots like this,his name is Gil Black,used to run around a bit,do you know him?,black gentlemen in his 70s.jay helfert said:
sjm said:
Although the steep takeaway and the "loop" in Jim's swing is certainly far from conventional, the key for Jim is the downswing is exactly the same as all the great players, hitting from the inside. So while he gets to the 'trigger' position seemingly awkwardly, from then on, he has a text book swing, and something a lot of players can learn from.
Now, I know far less about the mechanics of a pool stroke, but perhaps there is an analogy with these great unconventional pool players? Do they get the essential elements correct?