Proof and Truth!!!!!!!!

[Bamacues]

I always thought the signature couldn't be saved when you refinished a cue. I would send a signed cue back to the person that made it. If he's dead, then I would never take a chance on losing the signature.

Hal, to save the signature, the refinisher has to sand the area around the signature VERY lightly. What they are actually doing is trying to leave a coat of finish over the signature. If the signature is between coats, you will lose it, if you go a hair too deep, you will lose it. It is also time consuming as the refinisher would have a better sanding job if done completely on the lathe, but he can't do this around the signature. Then, if the signature WAS saved, it MAY turn dark over time as the old finish and the new finish are not compatible. This is the way it was explained to me.

 

[Jager Monster]

I think both parties handled this wrong, but in the end Aaron came through. It may have taken longer than sore wanted, but I would rather wait and have it done right then it be done sloppy. As far as the razor stuff... it is as simple as sending a pm to him saying thanks for going the extra mile, but I really like my cue with the inlays the way they are. No Harm No Foul.

After all of this I think I will trade my Gilbert as is. Just seems simpler that way. I hope both sides can see where they were wrong and can salvage something out of this.

Mike

 

[cuedoctor]

I always thought the signature couldn't be saved when you refinished a cue. I would send a signed cue back to the person that made it. If he's dead, then I would never take a chance on losing the signature.

I have sent about 40 cues to my refinish guy in PA and NEVER had a problem with the signature. and they were all high end cues.That's not to say it cant happen,I guess Arron did the best he could and When the cue is recieved and the work inspected then thats the end and Sore just shouldn't use him anymore if thats the way he feels.I think since Arron uses this forum as a place of business this is one of the risk he takes dealing here,other refinishers have learned not to use forums like this and all though he is trying to establish a reputation I'm sure this incident is not what was planned. Most cuemakers wont even touch a cue once its been worked on by others and there's a problem ,so he should be glad Russ put the signature back on IMO

 

[Sore_Aintya]

Unless you are in Japan. IS IT A SWEET REFINISH?????
IS RUSS'S SIGNATURE ON IT. IT HAS A BETTER FINISH NOW THAN WHEN RUSS SHOT IT I WOULD BET. SHOULDN'T YOU MENTION THAT STUFF TOO.
just shouting
Nick

Id love to be able to tell you what the finish looks like, however seeing how I haven't seen the cue in almost 2 months....

I sent the cue to the address you provided. Thanx Aaron 815-243-1101

..and which address was that? The one where I sent the cue from or the address I gave you in a private message, then again over the phone because "you forgot"? Give me the exact address here, if you really sent the cue.

All in all, I guess this is all my fault for cutting corners and letting a hack do repair work on my cue.

 

[PROG8R]

Id love to be able to tell you what the finish looks like, however seeing how I haven't seen the cue in almost 2 months....




..and which address was that? The one where I sent the cue from or the address I gave you in a private message, then again over the phone because "you forgot"? Give me the exact address here, if you really sent the cue.

All in all, I guess this is all my fault for cutting corners and letting a hack do repair work on my cue.

I would have checked hhis website for info if I had a problem reaching him or had a really big question maybe I would try the cell number he posts all over the place here.
i guess if none of that worked,
I think I would just crap in one hand and wish in the other.

 

[CAMCUES]

I like the way Cuedoctor has put it
these forums are tuff and customer service should be everything because one bad move or dealling can cancel all the good ones that people remember . At this point I think damage is done as far as PAINPOOL Reputation .A very Important lesson that can be taken from all this is at least contact the maker of that high dollar 1 of a kind hand made custom cue with whom evers signature on it and ask what they charge to refinish the cue and if its with in $100 of the other guy Why in the world would you not protect your investment by sending back to the guy who made it that insures that what ever happens during refinsh can be made right again with no hassles or any of this mess.

best wishes to both parties invovled and I bet the cue when it arrives looks Great as Aaron has promised.

 

[nick serdula]

I have sent about 40 cues to my refinish guy in PA and NEVER had a problem with the signature. and they were all high end cues.That's not to say it cant happen,I guess Arron did the best he could and When the cue is recieved and the work inspected then thats the end and Sore just shouldn't use him anymore if thats the way he feels.I think since Arron uses this forum as a place of business this is one of the risk he takes dealing here,other refinishers have learned not to use forums like this and all though he is trying to establish a reputation I'm sure this incident is not what planned. Most cuemakers wont even touch a cue once its been worked on by others and there's a problem ,so he should be glad Russ put the signature back on IMO

Is Jerry your man? Perfect in Pa = Jerry Rauenzahn!! Amazing if there are more guys that good in Pa!
Nick

 

[runscott]

I like the way Cuedoctor has put it
these forums are tuff and customer service should be everything because one bad move or dealling can cancel all the good ones that people remember . At this point I think damage is done as far as PAINPOOL Reputation .A very Important lesson that can be taken from all this is at least contact the maker of that high dollar 1 of a kind hand made custom cue with whom evers signature on it and ask what they charge to refinish the cue and if its with in $100 of the other guy Why in the world would you not protect your investment by sending back to the guy who made it that insures that what ever happens during refinsh can be made right again with no hassles or any of this mess.

best wishes to both parties invovled and I bet the cue when it arrives looks Great as Aaron has promised.

If you refinish cues, it does not matter whether or not you seek business on this forum - your work will be described here regardless, whether you are a top-notch cuesmith...or a scoundrel.

If anyone is considering using Aaron (or anyone else) to do their refinishing, or simply to transact business with, it is easy enough to do an AZBilliards search on that person's handle, and read the posts related to them - I always do that, and I have not only skipped a few sellers because of the negative comments here, but also have purchased from a couple of guys who I wouldn't have otherwise. IMO, this is a great place to do business.

 

[pathman]

.A very Important lesson that can be taken from all this is at least contact the maker of that high dollar 1 of a kind hand made custom cue with whom evers signature on it and ask what they charge to refinish the cue and if its with in $100 of the other guy Why in the world would you not protect your investment by sending back to the guy who made it that insures that what ever happens during refinsh can be made right again with no hassles or any of this mess.

Well stated, I personally think every effort should be taken to have the original builder do all repair re-finish work. This is not always the case, but as a general rule you will be much happier in the end. I think a lot of the newer builders/repairmen do a great job, but when things like signature preservation are in question, it gets a little tricky if you don't have the years under your belt.

 

[Bamacues]

The last Espiritu's I had refinished by Russ only cost $125 with linen and $150 with leather.

 

[Merlinium]

Maybe I am just weird but I like Painpool's attitude (the part about it taking longer as he won't send out an inferior product).

I think maybe the lesson is not to promise to keep signatures in future or maybe run a new offer, "if I sand off the original signature I will give you 2 free signatures to replace it (mine and my wife forging mine to show the quality of her work)".

The forgery line is quite funny in hindsight but I am sure he was just trying to be helpful.


I think though that all kidding aside if I ever need to get a new wrap or refinish I would contact Painpool because I can be sure that he won't send it out unless the work has been done properly.

 

[Hidy Ho]

""..I can get the marker and my wife can stidy his signature and get it right. Remember I can continue to wipe it off until it's right. Shes good at that stuff."

lmfao

This allegation, more than anything, bothers me and makes me question the integrity of the accused.

This statement, indirectly, infer that this may not be the first time ...

If I was knowing holding on to a refinished custom cue with a lizard wrap and a touched up or counterfeit signature, I would not be happy.

 

[JimBo]

(BTW, Russ Espiritu has never made a cue that was worth $1,500, no matter how much anyone has paid him or the materials cost.)

Dave you are wrong, in the past few years Rus has pumped out some really nice work, it's obvious you have an issue with Rus and you have a soft spot in your heart for Aaron. But the fact remains you get what you pay for, anyone who wants to pay Aaron to LEARN how to work on cues gets what they paid for and they get what they deserve. There is no reason not to use the original maker to do work on thier own cues. In the long run doing things the RIGHT way may cost a bit more but you can be sure things won't turn out like they did in this case.

Jim

 

[JimBo]

Unfortunately many people on this board want, and expect, a great deal and cost becomes the Only factor. I see cuemakers on this board who have perfect customer service, perform superior quality work, don't spam the board and are not getting the work. I have no sympathy for anyone sending an expensive cue to PainPool.

Well said!!!

Jim

 

[Cory in DC]

If anyone is considering using Aaron (or anyone else) to do their refinishing, or simply to transact business with, it is easy enough to do an AZBilliards search on that person's handle, and read the posts related to them - I always do that, and I have not only skipped a few sellers because of the negative comments here, but also have purchased from a couple of guys who I wouldn't have otherwise. IMO, this is a great place to do business.

Ditto for me. Petree Cues has prices as good or better than PainPool and I've only seen good feedback on his work. A bit more on the expensive end, Mike Webb has a flawless reputation here (and elsewhere). So currently, I've got both working on cues for me: Petree is restoring a Runde-era R1 for me, and Webb is making a pair of cues for me (due in 4-6 weeks!).

The punchline is that I think you can drive a lot of business your way by participating in the forums -- if you take care of your customers, which includes communication. (For an example of Mike Webb's customer service, see this thread.)

As for this debate, it looks like SA will get his cue, eventually, so no long term harm done. That said, I wouldn't personally use Aaron, but he has enough satisfied customers out there that I wouldn't actively discourage other people from using him.

Cory

 

[bigpocket]

Dave you are wrong, in the past few years Rus has pumped out some really nice work, it's obvious you have an issue with Rus and you have a soft spot in your heart for Aaron. But the fact remains you get what you pay for, anyone who wants to pay Aaron to LEARN how to work on cues gets what they paid for and they get what they deserve. There is no reason not to use the original maker to do work on thier own cues. In the long run doing things the RIGHT way may cost a bit more but you can be sure things won't turn out like they did in this case.

Jim

Well said there jimbo.

 

[Dhakala]

Dave you are wrong, in the past few years Rus has pumped out some really nice work

I wouldn't know because I've ignored RE for years. But if that's true, then what took so long? The guy's been making cues since 1984, Jim.

it's obvious you have an issue with Rus and you have a soft spot in your heart for Aaron.

It's obvious that you're a mind-reader, Jim.

There is no reason not to use the original maker to do work on thier own cues.

Which was my first clue that this customer is squirrel bait.

 

[Sore_Aintya]

My fault I know.
I honestly didn't want Russ' finish on the cue because of the ring popping issue. This is my 3rd Espiritu and the 2nd with the nickle/silver trim rings, both of which would raise through the clear in time. Russ makes great looking and excellent hitting cues IMO (I like S/S joints ), but his finish is just not up to par, again, this is just my opinion.
I'm not convinced the cue is in the mail, as I have been told countless times in the last month and a half that's its "just about out the door".
Id like to see how some of you other guys would react to being without your playing cue for almost 7 weeks when you was told it would be 1-3 weeks tops, then cant get a straight answer as to why or where your cue is.

 

[cubswin]

My fault I know.
I honestly didn't want Russ' finish on the cue because of the ring popping issue. This is my 3rd Espiritu and the 2nd with the nickle/silver trim rings, both of which would raise through the clear in time. Russ makes great looking and excellent hitting cues IMO (I like S/S joints ), but his finish is just not up to par, again, this is just my opinion.
I'm not convinced the cue is in the mail, as I have been told countless times in the last month and a half that's its "just about out the door".
Id like to see how some of you other guys would react to being without your playing cue for almost 7 weeks when you was told it would be 1-3 weeks tops, then cant get a straight answer as to why or where your cue is.

Lots of cues with silver rings pop up. Think its more of a problem with the metal rings than a finish problem. I've had it happen with different finish types, last one was a uv finish that they were starting to pop up a little on. Wasn't through the finish though.

 

[badabing]

My cues go back to the cuemaker providing he is alive and willing. I think the only reason not to send it back to the original maker is price and in most cases you get what you pay for!

pleaseeeeee Barry!