Published Money Earnings

Q

quitecoolguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe this has come up before..but isnt their an inherent danger of posting winings and losses on the forum or on video..

Like Kid Delicious ... he puts in his tape that he travled all around the us and won over a million dollars playing pool

Shane winning the amount in the action challenge.

Bill and Scott playing for what ever..

Do you think that people ever worry about that infor getting back to people like the IRS or ATF for pool hall that these matches take place in that some pool hall owners promote.

Now i like to hear about the action like the next guy and love to bet it up..but I wonder if it is a mistake to throw caustion to the wind like that..just a though
 
Danny said he won $1,000,000. Did he also say he lost $999,999. People always tell how much they were up, not what they ended up with. If Danny was winning so much why did he explain in the article how to get cheap hotels and sleeping in cars. If you go to a Casino and win $1 one week and lose the $1 the next week, you are even. I don't even go to the Casinos any more. If I want to spend money in AC I just send them a check. They are going to get it anyway. This saves the travel time which I use to play pool.
 
Kaznj makes a good point. We always hear about the big kahunas, but not too often do we know about the fish that got away. :D

This subject has been brought up in the past, and there are strong opinions, pro and con.

Some folks refer to the winnings as "jellybeans" or "sandbags" because of this.

Each State has different laws as it pertains to gambling and tournaments. That is why you see calcuttas in some States more frequently than others.

Most modern-day tournament players save receipts and have some form of records. I would venture to guess that not all pool players who earn money playing pool do pay taxes. However, I know quite a few who do today.

Most high-profile pool events send 1099's to any player who made the money rounds. If you do not have a Social Security number, some pool promoters will withhold a third of the winnings.

If the IRS were to audit a pool player and the pool player did not have any records, then he/she would be required to pay penalties and taxes on any earnings reported to them. Somehow, though, it could be that the IRS has bigger fish to fry than a pool player's income. JMHO, FWIW! :)

JAM
 
quitecoolguy said:
Maybe this has come up before..but isnt their an inherent danger of posting winings and losses on the forum or on video..

Like Kid Delicious ... he puts in his tape that he travled all around the us and won over a million dollars playing pool

Shane winning the amount in the action challenge.

Bill and Scott playing for what ever..

Do you think that people ever worry about that infor getting back to people like the IRS or ATF for pool hall that these matches take place in that some pool hall owners promote.

Now i like to hear about the action like the next guy and love to bet it up..but I wonder if it is a mistake to throw caustion to the wind like that..just a though
Click to expand...


When you start winning big money where an institution is involved like a casino or a card room, you better watch out. They are forced by law to report wins over over 300 times the bet. For instance if you hit a lowly $1,000 jackpot on a $1 slot machine and someone has to come and pay you, they will take down your drivers license number and address. Most casinos follow this policy. Not Indian casinos though, but their payouts are bad anyway.

If you cash in over $10,000 dollars in chips they will report it! Same thing with name, I.D. etc. Even a $2,500 cash is recorded against you in some casinos, and held on record for 24 hours. If your total cashes goes over $10,000 in that period, it is reported as such.

There are ways around this though. What someone can do (not me of course) is have a few people help you cash in a large amount of chips, so that it remains less than $10,000 per person. There are guys that hang around card rooms for just this purpose. They will redeem your chips for cash for a small fee. Maybe $50 or a $100.

Or you can just cash in seven or eight thou one day and come back the next and do another seven or eight. Or you can open a "box" at a casino and put the chips in there. This is what most high limit players do. A thousand dollar chip takes up much less room than ten hundred dollar bills. And you can get five and ten thousand dollar chips in many casinos. Major gamblers hide a lot of money in large denomination chips. You can easily put a million dollars in a small box.

There is one risk. If the casino shuts down, the chips may become worthless. It happened in L.A. when the original Crystal Park closed down. There were guys with 50K and more in their boxes and the chips lost all their value. A major casino like the Mirage or Bellagio should be all right though.

Back to your original question. Unless the huge wins are well publicized and someone brings it to the attention of the IRS, I wouldn't be too worried. A gambler like Danny if questioned, could easily say he lost it all back the next week. Who is to say different? There is no proof either way. What it amounts to is just a story.

Now if he takes those winnings and buys a $500,000 house, he may have a problem. Better to lease than buy in this case. Many high rollers never buy anything other than a car. They are renters for life. Gives them more mobility anyway.
 
proof

Jay is pretty much right although like everything else, laws and policies vary everywhere. With so much legalized gambling in my state they have lowered the limit to $600 to have to pay taxes on winnings. Also, you pay taxes on winnings unless you can prove losses, I think this applies everywhere, for the fed's. The IRS turns a deaf ear on unsubstantiated claims that you lost twice as much as you won. Various ways to cover your bottom but all involve some risk. Spreading the winnings between various people is pretty low risk, however if caught it is dead bang tax fraud and can mean a visit to the Graybar Hotel.

Your best options are to leave no paper trail at all or keep a very detailed record of your losses. Unless something has changed fairly recently, almost any consistent method of record keeping is acceptable.

If you are inclined there are many thousands of dollars of gambling tax deductions laying on the ground after a day at the races . . . I've seen it done!

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
Jay is pretty much right although like everything else, laws and policies vary everywhere. With so much legalized gambling in my state they have lowered the limit to $600 to have to pay taxes on winnings. Also, you pay taxes on winnings unless you can prove losses, I think this applies everywhere, for the fed's. The IRS turns a deaf ear on unsubstantiated claims that you lost twice as much as you won. Various ways to cover your bottom but all involve some risk. Spreading the winnings between various people is pretty low risk, however if caught it is dead bang tax fraud and can mean a visit to the Graybar Hotel.

Your best options are to leave no paper trail at all or keep a very detailed record of your losses. Unless something has changed fairly recently, almost any consistent method of record keeping is acceptable.

If you are inclined there are many thousands of dollars of gambling tax deductions laying on the ground after a day at the races . . . I've seen it done!

Hu
Click to expand...

Keeping a daily diary of your gambling activity is a good idea. You can only claim losses against wins. That is, you can only claim enough in losses to cover your wins. If you win $100,000, you can claim up to $100,000 in losses, but you better have some good records. On numbers this high, EXPECT to get audited if you try to deduct everything.

For several years I have paid taxes on poker tournament winnings, with my high being 117K in winnings in 2005. I claimed 68K in losses (entry fees) against this and paid the tax on 49K. No problem, no audit.
 
jay helfert said:
When you start winning big money where an institution is involved like a casino or a card room, you better watch out. They are forced by law to report wins over over 300 times the bet. For instance if you hit a lowly $1,000 jackpot on a $1 slot machine and someone has to come and pay you, they will take down your drivers license number and address. Most casinos follow this policy. Not Indian casinos though, but their payouts are bad anyway.

If you cash in over $10,000 dollars in chips they will report it! Same thing with name, I.D. etc. Even a $2,500 cash is recorded against you in some casinos, and held on record for 24 hours. If your total cashes goes over $10,000 in that period, it is reported as such.

There are ways around this though. What someone can do (not me of course) is have a few people help you cash in a large amount of chips, so that it remains less than $10,000 per person. There are guys that hang around card rooms for just this purpose. They will redeem your chips for cash for a small fee. Maybe $50 or a $100.

Or you can just cash in seven or eight thou one day and come back the next and do another seven or eight. Or you can open a "box" at a casino and put the chips in there. This is what most high limit players do. A thousand dollar chip takes up much less room than ten hundred dollar bills. And you can get five and ten thousand dollar chips in many casinos. Major gamblers hide a lot of money in large denomination chips. You can easily put a million dollars in a small box.

There is one risk. If the casino shuts down, the chips may become worthless. It happened in L.A. when the original Crystal Park closed down. There were guys with 50K and more in their boxes and the chips lost all their value. A major casino like the Mirage or Bellagio should be all right though.

Back to your original question. Unless the huge wins are well publicized and someone brings it to the attention of the IRS, I wouldn't be too worried. A gambler like Danny if questioned, could easily say he lost it all back the next week. Who is to say different? There is no proof either way. What it amounts to is just a story.

Now if he takes those winnings and buys a $500,000 house, he may have a problem. Better to lease than buy in this case. Many high rollers never buy anything other than a car. They are renters for life. Gives them more mobility anyway.
Click to expand...


Jay your kinda right about the reporting, specifically anything on a machine over 1199.99 IS reported to the irs on a 1099 form and yes you can get loss statments from the casinos to write off your losses against your winning NOT your income.

The $10,000 thing is the same as any bank with cash transactions the DEA like this and was the reason this happened to slow down the $$$ laundering.
 
I have only been visited once

jay helfert said:
Keeping a daily diary of your gambling activity is a good idea. You can only claim losses against wins. That is, you can only claim enough in losses to cover your wins. If you win $100,000, you can claim up to $100,000 in losses, but you better have some good records. On numbers this high, EXPECT to get audited if you try to deduct everything.

For several years I have paid taxes on poker tournament winnings, with my high being 117K in winnings in 2005. I claimed 68K in losses (entry fees) against this and paid the tax on 49K. No problem, no audit.
Click to expand...

Unusual earnings or things like substantial gambling winnings often get an account red flagged but they only check a tiny fraction of the flagged accounts. They sent me a less than friendly letter this year because of my very uneven earnings. I sent them a reply that must have suited them because all has been quiet. Of course they audited a friend and still have him in limbo, claiming they haven't had time to do the final processing on his case.

They paid me a visit once and decided they wanted more money than I had. It wasn't much but enough to be awkward. Needless to say, they got what they wanted . . . eventually.

HU
 
One thing nobody has mentioned is how much it costs to be on the road. As someone who travels full time, I can tell you from experience that these days you absolutely cannot live on the road for less than a grand a week...and that is staying in the cheapest chain motels, and eating on a budget. That's also if you're by yourself. If you travel with a wife or girlfriend, add another $400-$500 a week. You can figure on $200/day minimum...anybody who travels much will confirm these numbers. You can do it for a little less if you sleep in your car, and eat nothing but fast food...thankfully I don't have to do that! :D

Winning at least $200/day, EVERY day, is a difficult proposition. Some days you're just gonna lose, and others you may make a little more. Many days you will be lucky to break even. The pool gambler's lifestyle is not something I would aspire to...which is why I've tried to convince serious pros to make money the way I do. It's steady income, and not difficult...as long as you've got the personality and the stomach for the travel.:D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
ShootingArts said:
Unusual earnings or things like substantial gambling winnings often get an account red flagged but they only check a tiny fraction of the flagged accounts. They sent me a less than friendly letter this year because of my very uneven earnings. I sent them a reply that must have suited them because all has been quiet. Of course they audited a friend and still have him in limbo, claiming they haven't had time to do the final processing on his case.

They paid me a visit once and decided they wanted more money than I had. It wasn't much but enough to be awkward. Needless to say, they got what they wanted . . . eventually.

HU
Click to expand...

The IRS sent me a letter this year and asked for an extra few hundred (after I paid a pretty penny already). I sent a check out in the next days mail. It's not worth it to get in a discussion with them over a small amount.

One time years ago, I ignored their letters to me for several thousand, and one day I walk into my bank and the manager tells me that the IRS has taken the money out of my account. TRUE STORY!

If you think they don't have the power, just test them and you'll find out the hard way.
 
In UK the tax authority can go back as many years as they wish in claiming what they allege to be unpaid taxes. Furthermore the burden of proof is always upon the individual to disprove the tax authority's contentions, never the other way round. The individual may only go back a maximum of 7 years in trying to reclaim any taxes he feels he may have overpaid.

Is it similar in USA?

No income tax here I'm happy to say, only one of many reasons that it's become home for many years;) :)
 
This is a new day and age. The government is keeping the keenest of eyes on financial institutions and all money transactions worthy of being noted. I'm a banker and I see all of this. The downside is that some gamblers and anyone who cashes big in a casino is kept track of to some extent. The upside is it makes like tough for illegitimate businesses. Drugs, money laundering, weapons, etc. Any cash transaction over $10k that happens through a financial institution gets reported through a FinCEN 104 form (a CTR) or at least it should.

Between technology and new regulations, keeping your winnings a secret from both the IRS and the road ahead of you are tougher than ever.
 
I played the dogs or horses at the tracks or OTB for over 40 years. I played one or two races a day and went home...win or lose. You can beat a race but you can't beat the races. I don't care how good you handicap or how good your inside info is, play every race and you'll go broke.

I stopped betting the dogs and the horses heavy around 1990 when lotterys and indian casinos took more than half the handle from most tracks.Not enough handle your betting against yourself or/and can't get good odds. And yes I picked up losing tickets off the ground and took any losing ones my friends were throwing away. When I hit big Like Jay said I'd get one of the many hanging around the tracks to cash for me. I NEVER had a losing year since I was 23 years old. I know every horse and dog player says that, but the people that know me at the tracks know it. Johnnyt
 
Koopa said:
This is a new day and age. The government is keeping the keenest of eyes on financial institutions and all money transactions worthy of being noted. I'm a banker and I see all of this. The downside is that some gamblers and anyone who cashes big in a casino is kept track of to some extent. The upside is it makes like tough for illegitimate businesses. Drugs, money laundering, weapons, etc. Any cash transaction over $10k that happens through a financial institution gets reported through a FinCEN 104 form (a CTR) or at least it should.

Between technology and new regulations, keeping your winnings a secret from both the IRS and the road ahead of you are tougher than ever.
Click to expand...

Big Brother is watching you.
 
jay helfert said:
The IRS sent me a letter this year and asked for an extra few hundred (after I paid a pretty penny already). I sent a check out in the next days mail. It's not worth it to get in a discussion with them over a small amount.

One time years ago, I ignored their letters to me for several thousand, and one day I walk into my bank and the manager tells me that the IRS has taken the money out of my account. TRUE STORY!

If you think they don't have the power, just test them and you'll find out the hard way.
Click to expand...

Been there and I have to admitt that it feels way worse than any loss I ever took.
 
I believe ya

When I went to the horse track constantly I felt confident that I could bet two or three races most days and come out ahead. Class tells the story in cheap races, if the trainer is letting the horse run. One trainer liked a shadow roll on his horses when the winning picture was taken. Never bet his horse if it wasn't wearing a shadow roll, need it or not! When I knew the owners, trainers, jockies, and horses, I did OK but I never took it seriously since I had far better deals in the real world. One thing, even at the smaller paramutual tracks my bet would be enough to knock down the odds on a weekday sometimes.

Hu


Johnnyt said:
I played the dogs or horses at the tracks or OTB for over 40 years. I played one or two races a day and went home...win or lose. You can beat a race but you can't beat the races. I don't care how good you handicap or how good your inside info is, play every race and you'll go broke.

I stopped betting the dogs and the horses heavy around 1990 when lotterys and indian casinos took more than half the handle from most tracks.Not enough handle your betting against yourself or/and can't get good odds. And yes I picked up losing tickets off the ground and took any losing ones my friends were throwing away. When I hit big Like Jay said I'd get one of the many hanging around the tracks to cash for me. I NEVER had a losing year since I was 23 years old. I know every horse and dog player says that, but the people that know me at the tracks know it. Johnnyt
Click to expand...
 
Been there too

jay helfert said:
One time years ago, I ignored their letters to me for several thousand, and one day I walk into my bank and the manager tells me that the IRS has taken the money out of my account. TRUE STORY!

If you think they don't have the power, just test them and you'll find out the hard way.
Click to expand...

I've been there too. They wanted less than 10K from me but I had just been forced to buy out my partner. 15K a month overhead and three thousand cash on hand had me stepping and fetching before they nailed me with the tax bill. I offered them fifteen hundred a month and they said they couldn't do it.

They played games for over a year and then sent me a notice that they were seizing my checking accounts in three weeks, then I could set up notes! Sporting of them, I had a business account, road account, and my personal account. Between the three of them they got less than $900. They asked what I could pay monthly. Since they had already turned down $1500 I figured I had better low-ball them and work from there. I told them $750. They were fine with that. Once again proving the mystery of the workings of the fed's. I would have paid them off long before if they had taken the $1500 a month I offered to begin with.

Hu
 
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