well, he got paid some of it anyway.
but you are right......it does take a certain dedication to put so much time into into becoming world class at something that can not support you financially. Unless you are the very best.
Quality life of professional players
- Thread starter Slh
- Start date
well, he got paid some of it anyway.
but you are right......it does take a certain dedication to put so much time into into becoming world class at something that can not support you financially. Unless you are the very best.
I tried it for two years, two weeks out, two weeks at home, best I could do after expenses was $2,000 a mth (20 yrs ago). The places you had to go/live and the travel time were not worth it, I was raising a family at the time. Seems like half the top players have no family, other half do. It's easier to become a top player without a family, very difficult, near impossible with a family, thats if family comes first.
I"m curious if any one knows how it is in other countries.....as far as can a pool player make a decent living? Pool seems very popular in China, Phillipines, Germany etc. Also if you can make better money over seas? has anyone from the U.S. done this successfully?
The players seem to enjoy playing otherwise they would've quit. Compared to service jobs playing pool is much more fun, it is a game.
As for what they do with their money, that is up to them. It is like if a promoter was making a fortune off of selling productions of pool matches, that person is entitled to keep all the profits and not tell anyone about them. With the internet sales can be high and no one would know how much you pull in from subscriptions.
The players do what they enjoy and that is a respectable accomplishment. As for how much they earn or what kind of lifestyle they enjoy that is a matter for people with something to sell.
As for what they do with their money, that is up to them. It is like if a promoter was making a fortune off of selling productions of pool matches, that person is entitled to keep all the profits and not tell anyone about them. With the internet sales can be high and no one would know how much you pull in from subscriptions.
The players do what they enjoy and that is a respectable accomplishment. As for how much they earn or what kind of lifestyle they enjoy that is a matter for people with something to sell.
Reading between the lines you are right. In effect, there is no such thing as professional pool. It does not exist. It is a hobby sport like maybe fishing and can be fun to play but not any kind of actual professional sport one could aspire to. If someone wanted to play pool as opposed to working they would find it the hardest and lowest paying job you can get. Even for the few pros who may scrape by, it is an around the clock job that they begin to despise and any real money they may make is very sort term, zero actual future.
You see it on here. A well known pro get sick or dies and you find they are little more then charity cases without a pot to pi$$ in. And don't get the idea that it is like "They did it their way" so to speak and would do it the same way if they had it to do over. They become trapped in their own strange view of life the that world owes them something. I have given jobs to many pool players to try to help them out maybe get them on a new path in life. They are as bad as dealing with drug users and about as trust worthy. Lying stealing and stabbing people in the back, including friends, is their way of life. This same conversation was taking place 40 years ago and will be taking place 40 years from now. Pool is not a profession.
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As for the level of professionalism pool pros deal with it is low. With promoters and TDs failing to pay on time.
Most pool pros are familiar with a lifestyle and demonstrate their knowledge of experience as much as they want. They are very helpful to upstarts and dedicated but at a fault which forces them to endure financial hardships.
If there were a message to convey to players it is that as a pool player they are a brand. Something Jeanette Lee is doing well with in merchandising and promotions. I get the sense that most pros just want to enjoy the game and help the community but their names are big enough that they can command some obligations.
Appearances in a production, being filmed, being used as part of advertising these are all corporate strategies that give compensation. But most people think the pool world is small and always in need of help. If people can afford to put on the production they can afford to spread some love.
The pool pros have big heart but at fault, the corporate mechanisms are pure money and ugly business but these are all ideas that can be used to profit off the players lack of financial wizardry.
Most pool pros are familiar with a lifestyle and demonstrate their knowledge of experience as much as they want. They are very helpful to upstarts and dedicated but at a fault which forces them to endure financial hardships.
If there were a message to convey to players it is that as a pool player they are a brand. Something Jeanette Lee is doing well with in merchandising and promotions. I get the sense that most pros just want to enjoy the game and help the community but their names are big enough that they can command some obligations.
Appearances in a production, being filmed, being used as part of advertising these are all corporate strategies that give compensation. But most people think the pool world is small and always in need of help. If people can afford to put on the production they can afford to spread some love.
The pool pros have big heart but at fault, the corporate mechanisms are pure money and ugly business but these are all ideas that can be used to profit off the players lack of financial wizardry.
True story! Fifteen to twenty years ago, Earl earned over 300K a year! He had 200K in sponsorship then (50K each with four companies). This went on for several years. He used to complain that if he was a golfer he would be making five to ten time as much. He was right, but I would tell him he wasn't doing too bad anyway. He did get a healthy settlement from that million dollar deal.
Don't ask me where all that money went. Let's just say someone spent it. Earl and his then wife lived very good in those days. I don't care who you are, you better plan for the future. Some do and some don't.
Today there are several of the top players who earn well over 100K and even 200K a year. They work hard for their money, traveling all over the world. It is a combination of sponsorship, endorsements, personal appearance, lessons, product sales and tournament winnings that earns them this income. Even gambling in challenge matches can augment this income if you play good enough (see below). You know who all these guys (and a few gals) are.
It's not an easy life, but I guess it's better than digging ditches. One player we all know and love has a very healthy bank account at a young age and lives a good lifestyle. He's a pretty smart kid who handles his money wisely. Very doubtful he will ever go broke. Of course he plays pretty sporty too. His name is Shane. :smile:
Don't ask me where all that money went. Let's just say someone spent it. Earl and his then wife lived very good in those days. I don't care who you are, you better plan for the future. Some do and some don't.
Today there are several of the top players who earn well over 100K and even 200K a year. They work hard for their money, traveling all over the world. It is a combination of sponsorship, endorsements, personal appearance, lessons, product sales and tournament winnings that earns them this income. Even gambling in challenge matches can augment this income if you play good enough (see below). You know who all these guys (and a few gals) are.
It's not an easy life, but I guess it's better than digging ditches. One player we all know and love has a very healthy bank account at a young age and lives a good lifestyle. He's a pretty smart kid who handles his money wisely. Very doubtful he will ever go broke. Of course he plays pretty sporty too. His name is Shane. :smile:
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I agree that some if not most of the good players do not have the right character that could promote pool.
But that is not the root of the problem.
What about other sports that do better? Player's there are such nice people with a university degree in philosophy?
When British soccer faced extinction due to hooliganism did their federation wait for the players and those fans to approach the principles of Budism?
I don't think so..
But that is not the root of the problem.
What about other sports that do better? Player's there are such nice people with a university degree in philosophy?
When British soccer faced extinction due to hooliganism did their federation wait for the players and those fans to approach the principles of Budism?
I don't think so..
Ain't that the truth! And Shane is definitely the exception, rather than the rule. When it comes to most pool players, at least the one I know well, they do not have an appreciation for the value of a dollar.
i can do a very simple example. Here in Italy and Europe in general Soccer (or football as called in Europe) is a very popular sport, maybe the most popular sport in the world.
I know the earning of some players who play in Serie C which is the lowest level of professional play.
The italian soccer is organized in this way:
Professional championships:
- Serie A which is the top championship in Italy
- Serie B 2nd
- Serie C1-C2 3d
Amateur Championships:
- Serie D
- a lot of different championship ( obviously of low level).
There are players who play in Serie C who earn 350.000€ ( over 450.000$) WHITOUT sponsorship. Clearly this is not the average salary because a lot of players receive much much less money but they do a good living because everything is payed by the society ( traveling, hotels,ecc).
And to play in Serie C you have a immense skill. I wrote this to show even in the lowest level the players do a good living
I know the earning of some players who play in Serie C which is the lowest level of professional play.
The italian soccer is organized in this way:
Professional championships:
- Serie A which is the top championship in Italy
- Serie B 2nd
- Serie C1-C2 3d
Amateur Championships:
- Serie D
- a lot of different championship ( obviously of low level).
There are players who play in Serie C who earn 350.000€ ( over 450.000$) WHITOUT sponsorship. Clearly this is not the average salary because a lot of players receive much much less money but they do a good living because everything is payed by the society ( traveling, hotels,ecc).
And to play in Serie C you have a immense skill. I wrote this to show even in the lowest level the players do a good living
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If there was somebody in charge, players would have to contend with this sort of stuff
"The WPBSA has tightened its disciplinary rules to cover a multitude of offences both big and small.
The new WPBSA players’ handbook includes specific fines for certain transgressions of the rules.
Conceding a frame before snookers are required, entering a tournament and then withdrawing from it without good reason and non attendance at tournament prize ceremonies, opening ceremonies, press conferences or other contracted events that are part and parcel of being a professional sportsmen will incur the following penalties:
First offence - £250 fine
Second offence - £500 fine
Third offence - £1,000 fine
After that players face suspension from tournaments."
From
http://snookerscene.blogspot.com/2011/01/world-snooker-rulesok.html
There are federations and governing bodies of Pool too, both in Europe and USA..
They just don't work like the Snooker federation does..
And no, Snooker players are not high intellectuals..
Also no, Snooker did not become what it is in one day from scratch.. It took hard work and looking into the future, not just looking to suck out every drop of blood from the players like 99% of Pool organizers and federations do..
And yes, Pool is also a highly precision sport that could be great if it had proper direction..
They just don't work like the Snooker federation does..
And no, Snooker players are not high intellectuals..
Also no, Snooker did not become what it is in one day from scratch.. It took hard work and looking into the future, not just looking to suck out every drop of blood from the players like 99% of Pool organizers and federations do..
And yes, Pool is also a highly precision sport that could be great if it had proper direction..
If the players just learned that fixed payments are great but percentages are scalable. In others words if the tournament does well then the payouts will be even better if they are percentage based.
Percentages rule in most business dealings, fixed amounts are for the lower end of ladder.
In today's world if a production does well then that is a credit to the production team. If percentages were involved then everyone involved gets some credits.
Percentages rule in most business dealings, fixed amounts are for the lower end of ladder.
In today's world if a production does well then that is a credit to the production team. If percentages were involved then everyone involved gets some credits.
I sell pool matches online. I live in a 400 sq ft. apartment in the shithole part of Las Vegas, with no health insurance, drive an 11 year old car and after three years in the uber-lucrative pool match selling business I am about $50K in debt.
I know some other people in the pool production business too. Most are living the baller life like me.
Its a glamourous life.
I've tried being reasonable with you and explaing the very basics of how things really work in this country buts it clear to me you are simply clueless and will not reality interrupt your little fantasy about things should be.
As for pool being a game and fun, for the players and everyone involved with the game it's a choice. I used to make decent money for where I lived. Great benefits.I was miserable though. Hated life. Now I'm broke, 30 seconds from financial disaster, completely screwed if I get hurt but 99 days out of a 100 I love what I do. For me and many of the players and people in the industry that is a fair trade. But I don't think you know that because I don't think you actually know any players or industry people beyond what you read on the internet.
You really don't know shit about pool.
mlalum
Banned
I just don't know where you see all these organizations sucking the blood out of players. People who have to make a living playing pool are some world-class bloodsuckers. Frankly in a fair fight i'd take a road player over dracula anytime. What the heck are you talking about regarding whose sucking whose blood.
Some of your colorful language is uncalled for. This discussion isn't about your life and financial decisions. It is about pool players and and the quality of life for professional pool players.
If there was mention of a business involved with pool players state your case. There is no need for a personal attack. Everyone has a situation but the purpose of this discussion is assessing a situation for pool players. It isn't about you and your business.
If you have a need to respond fine, send a PM. There is no need to sideswipe the thread.
My interest in pool players is unrelated to your personal accommodations.
To be clear I was referencing the IPT and how they put on a quick production of top players relatively quickly with their events. The prize money attracted most if not all of the big names and the production was made and subscriptions were sold. He did it fast and quick. But the players were just fillers for screen time and the result of that venture is well known.
I don't understand how you implied yourself in the situation. The IPT still sells subscriptions.
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mlalum:
Pool federations exist in every European country, as I mentioned earlier in this thread..
People organizing tournaments exist everywhere..
They way they have been organizing things is not for the benefit of the sport and very short minded in general.
They don't care if there's gonna be tomorrow, they just care what to make for themselves out of a tournament today and that's it..
They couldn't care less for the sport or the players..
So what are you saying? Players in other sports that do better have an angel's heart?
Definately not! But their federations and governing bodies do a better job organizing the sport.
There are exceptions in Pool regarding organizers, only confirming what rules today's situation..
Pool federations exist in every European country, as I mentioned earlier in this thread..
People organizing tournaments exist everywhere..
They way they have been organizing things is not for the benefit of the sport and very short minded in general.
They don't care if there's gonna be tomorrow, they just care what to make for themselves out of a tournament today and that's it..
They couldn't care less for the sport or the players..
So what are you saying? Players in other sports that do better have an angel's heart?
Definately not! But their federations and governing bodies do a better job organizing the sport.
There are exceptions in Pool regarding organizers, only confirming what rules today's situation..