Quality life of professional players

[onepocketron]

There have been several top players that have made quite a bit of money in pool. It is their own fault that they did not put some of it away for their future. That is no different that someone having a job and not putting money into a retirement account for the future. I remember when Earl was in Houston in the early 80's an attorney friend of mine used to watch some of the action and he told me then that if Earl would let someone help him with some retirement issues he could be rich into his late life. I talked to Earl about it and he simply stated he had already been rich twice and he could take care of his self with the money he was making. I believe that is the view held by many top players. Look at Buddy now, he has made a small fortune over the years but never had tried to manage it for his future. In all sports no matter what you make you need help to manage you money, you see football players making millions and then being broke just a few years after they are out of football.
There needs to be a financial management system to help them because they can't help themselves.

This is true of many of the big money makers in all sports. There are a lot of them that have made millions, but don't have a pot to p#ss in or a window to throw it out. I believe everyone, even the working man should have a financial advisor of some type to make sure they have what is needed for the later years.
The guy I have has done quite well for me. I don't have a pension, only a 401K and, and money after taxes I have invested through this guy. He has grown my investments larger than my 401K that I have been investing in for many years. Many people don't want to pay for the investment guy, but so far, my guy has done a fantastic job. I'm 58 years old, if I lost my job tomorrow, I would be comfortable, not rich, but comfortable. I work a regular blue collar job so it goes to show you a person doesn't have to make a ton of money to save and invest for a comfortable retirement. It does take discipline though.

 

[Celtic]

well, he got paid some of it anyway.

Not sure how much of it got paid but it was I believe CJ Wiley that posted on Youtube on this video as "2good4U2play". Not totally sure but it sounds alot like him given what Jay has said about the incident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4UVcdfiBSY

I feel the need to set the record straight once and for all. This is the first time I have made any statements because when the 11 racks were ran for the $1,000,000 ($50,000 a year for 20 years) I was bound by a confidentiality agreement. This meant that I COULD NOT defend myself against all the bogus rumors generated by people (bless their hearts..lol) that didn't have any idea about the facts. I gave Earl the first payment of $50,000 out of MY OWN MONEY and he NEVER paid me back (b.h.h.).

After TWO and a Half years of litigation EARL DID GET HIS MONEY in a lump sum and at the time a $1,000.000 annuity was worth $630,000 and he opted for the lump sum minus legal expenses ( I never ask him the total, and I was a little upset that he didn't offer me my $50,000 back) and my legal expenses were paid by opposing counsel which was about $300,000. The last day of the settlement there were 17 attorneys in the room,  (a serious lawsuit against London's finest) and WE WON

 

[justnum]

In other US sports which remain nameless, the recruiters get people put them into lifestyles and manage their expenses. At which point if a player survives the first few years, they hand off management to a private or higher end financial manager.

Regardless the result in most of the popular cases are investments are made and people do not enjoy the good life after they make an investment in most cases. Usually money managers talk a good game but spend money on their friends for companies to put on a good show for the investor and then bleed them until the people want to relax.

I will not mention names but the popular ones are well documented.

The cases where it "actually worked" are usually part of the show, or people enjoying being bled.

The worst is when some country folk come into the city and their heart of gold turns to a chest pain or heart attack because of what they think "they did" or "what they should've done sooner."

 

[Nibroc]

payouts and knockouts

I think overall it would help more if certain tournaments were not as top heavy on there payouts and more spread out and maybe even payed a bigger % of players.(i know some wouldnt like but would help)

Also an idea I had is for like a knockout pool tournament where like there is a $400 buy in and 200 goes into the tourney pool, and then when you eliminate someone you get there knockout 200. So knock two people off and start making some money

 

[Fatboy]

True story! Fifteen to twenty years ago, Earl earned over 300K a year! He had 200K in sponsorship then (50K each with four companies). This went on for several years. He used to complain that if he was a golfer he would be making five to ten time as much. He was right, but I would tell him he wasn't doing too bad anyway. He did get a healthy settlement from that million dollar deal.

Don't ask me where all that money went. Let's just say someone spent it. Earl and his then wife lived very good in those days. I don't care who you are, you better plan for the future. Some do and some don't.

Today there are several of the top players who earn well over 100K and even 200K a year. They work hard for their money, traveling all over the world. It is a combination of sponsorship, endorsements, personal appearance, lessons, product sales and tournament winnings that earns them this income. Even gambling in challenge matches can augment this income if you play good enough (see below). You know who all these guys (and a few gals) are.

It's not an easy life, but I guess it's better than digging ditches. One player we all know and love has a very healthy bank account at a young age and lives a good lifestyle. He's a pretty smart kid who handles his money wisely. Very doubtful he will ever go broke. Of course he plays pretty sporty too. His name is Shane. :smile:

JAy you know that I know the numbers of some players top pro's. And your numbers are accurate, however travel, motels, sometimes rent-a-car etc costs about 40-50K/yr for the guys that are out there enough to make say $150,000-$200,000/yr. The guys who are just playing regional events might make $50,000/yr and have $7,000 in travel. So regional guys have a higher profit margin. Mike Massey brings in a good amount but his travel expenses are brutal. So it depends on the player but 15%-35% of the win is overhead-cost of doing biz.

then alot of pool players are gamblers and blow $$ in casino's which really isnt gambling at all, its playing rigged games and donating $$$ to debt ridden corporations.

it is a brutal way to earn a living, brutal

 

[book collector]

Players

If the players just learned that fixed payments are great but percentages are scalable. In others words if the tournament does well then the payouts will be even better if they are percentage based.

Percentages rule in most business dealings, fixed amounts are for the lower end of ladder.

In today's world if a production does well then that is a credit to the production team. If percentages were involved then everyone involved gets some credits.

That is assuming that the Organizers will be honest.
At least with a guaranteed amount, you would think you were going to at least what they guaranteed, even that has not been the case in many instances.
If they don't honor a guaranteed prize fund , what do you think will happen behind closed doors when they get the first count?

 

[TheBook]

Every sport operates the same way. Those at the top make the money. The difference is the number of top players that really make enough. Look at any sport other than what is considered the big 4 major leagues and there are not that many are really "wealthy".

Look at NASCAR, tennis, golf, and etc. Considering all of the people that participate and there are very few making the money. Even in the major leagues there are more struggling players in the minors than in the majors.

If you really think a out it pool is not unique in this area.

People in the arts are on the same situation. Singers, musicians, actors and etc, That is why they are called starving artists.

Have you ever been recruited or tried a commissioned sales job. They will always show you what the top 10 make. The problem is that everyone else doesn't make enough to cover their expenses.

The casinos and lottos will always tell you about the winner but they never tell how many have lost.

As the saying goes there is always a king or queen but the chances of being one is not good.

 

[justnum]

That is assuming that the Organizers will be honest.
At least with a guaranteed amount, you would think you were going to at least what they guaranteed, even that has not been the case in many instances.
If they don't honor a guaranteed prize fund , what do you think will happen behind closed doors when they get the first count?

Honesty will never happen if organizers do not have a chance to disclose their numbers.

As is the players haven't taken any actions prior to a tournament like saying they will play and not playing, or showing up and bad mouthing the promoter, all they do is respect the agreement of the tournament.

Some tournament promoters publicly broadcast messages about why a specific player does not show up. Others feel the need to delay payment. It is an embarrassment to their reputation and something that is well known.

I have never seen or heard rowdy players in business dealings. I have seen some upset promoters. I am getting to the point that the players are giving people opportunities to make good on their word, no matter how long or how many obstacles they are faced with. It speaks volumes for their character.

 

[mlalum]

Honesty will never happen if organizers do not have a chance to disclose their numbers.

As is the players haven't taken any actions prior to a tournament like saying they will play and not playing, or showing up and bad mouthing the promoter, all they do is respect the agreement of the tournament.

Some tournament promoters publicly broadcast messages about why a specific player does not show up. Others feel the need to delay payment. It is an embarrassment to their reputation and something that is well known.

I have never seen or heard rowdy players in business dealings. I have seen some upset promoters. I am getting to the point that the players are giving people opportunities to make good on their word, no matter how long or how many obstacles they are faced with. It speaks volumes for their character.

HOLD IT. You've never heard players come to a tournament and complain and bad mouth the tournament director or promoter? or tables. or format. or treatment. or about anything else on this god's green earth? HHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHahahahah. Have you run a tournament before, etc?

I heard a top player YESTERDAY at a regional tournament complain about getting A BYE. Are you kidding me JUSTNUm.

 

[justnum]

HOLD IT. You've never heard players come to a tournament and complain and bad mouth the tournament director or promoter? or tables. or format. or treatment. or about anything else on this god's green earth? HHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHahahahah. Have you run a tournament before, etc?

I heard a top player YESTERDAY at a regional tournament complain about getting A BYE. Are you kidding me JUSTNUm.

The most recent memory in my mind is the US open in chesapeake. The only complaints players made public was the air conditioning, the rack, noisy fans, the absence of the tournament promoter/organizer, the missing public display of the prize money which was promoted as an incentive to players and the poor scheduling of matches.

But none of the complaints were anything they whined or cried about like a player not showing up to a tournament, or a player opening a billiard room (John Schmidt in West Virginia), or having to go to another country to interest a player into showing up (Effren Reyes) and complaining about buying a watching for the latest Hall of Famer (Cisco Bustamante), and the newly single female player (I will not name), and begging to kiss another female player (I will not name) to her husband, those were things the tournament guy did.

Typical attitude from certain types of people. The type of people that shouldn't be heard.

What specific incidents on the international level did you want to discuss?

 

[The Renfro]

The most recent memory in my mind is the US open in chesapeake. The only complaints players made public was the air conditioning, the rack, noisy fans, the absence of the tournament promoter/organizer, the missing public display of the prize money which was promoted as an incentive to players and the poor scheduling of matches.

But none of the complaints were anything they whined or cried about like a player not showing up to a tournament, or a player opening a billiard room (John Schmidt in West Virginia), or having to go to another country to interest a player into showing up (Effren Reyes) and complaining about buying a watching for the latest Hall of Famer (Cisco Bustamante), and the newly single female player (I will not name), and begging to kiss another female player (I will not name) to her husband, those were things the tournament guy did.

Typical attitude from certain types of people. The type of people that shouldn't be heard.

What specific incidents on the international level did you want to discuss?

Anyone able to or even care to translate??

 

[JCIN]

Typical attitude from certain types of people. The type of people that shouldn't be heard.

I went back and looked at your post history.

You are the guy who wrote this:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=206631

"Theoretical Pool Tournament

64 Players

10 Legends
10 Rising Stars
24 Nobody's
20 Professionals

Tournament Arena Capacity 1000 people
Legend attracts 100 people
Rising Star attracts 50 people
Professionals attract 5 people.

Rent for Arena: $2500 daily
Popcorn: $1
Soda: $1
Alcohol: $5
Tickets: $10

If 10 legends play on the same day income from tickets is $10,000. If those fans are hungry or thirsty the minimum income is $1 the maximum income is $28 (four of each item). Total income from food and drink is $28,000.
For that day when all legends play income is $38,000, deduct arena fees and the remaining is $35,500. How many days should they play?

Big tournaments can make the most money from food, drink and tickets. I would post code so that you can adjust the numbers. I don't want to argue the different values, use a spreadsheet program."

Now just exactly what "types of people" do you think this post makes you?


During my little search I saw you were at the Shane vs Mika match. That was the nineteenth one of those I did. A real life event that hundreds of people paid to see. Lots of people made special trips driving and flying from all over the country to see two champions go at it. I actually create these things with the help of the players and plenty of friends and acquaintances.

Perhaps certain types of people who have no idea what they are talking about and no experience actually doing things in real life should not be heard from.

 

[justnum]

I went back and looked at your post history.

You are the guy who wrote this:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=206631



Now just exactly what "types of people" do you think this post makes you?


During my little search I saw you were at the Shane vs Mika match. That was the nineteenth one of those I did. A real life event that hundreds of people paid to see. Lots of people made special trips driving and flying from all over the country to see two champions go at it. I actually create these things with the help of the players and plenty of friends and acquaintances.

Perhaps certain types of people who have no idea what they are talking about and no experience actually doing things in real life should not be heard from.

If you like to take opportunities to advertise for charity that is great, get your name out there. I don't understand the relation of this with the thread.

In a discussion try to go with the flow of the subject. But if you want to start a new topic create a new thread.

What comments did you have if any about the quality of life for pro pool players?

 

[JCIN]

If you like to take opportunities to advertise for charity that is great, get your name out there. I don't understand the relation of this with the thread.

In a discussion try to go with the flow of the subject. But if you want to start a new topic create a new thread.

I am stating my credentials in the industry and my experience actually doing the things you are talking about. Perhaps you could do the same.

Do you have any first hand knowledge of professional players, their lifestyles or how the events they play in are created ?

 

[justnum]

I am stating my credentials in the industry and my experience actually doing the things you are talking about. Perhaps you could do the same.

Do you have any first hand knowledge of professional players, their lifestyles or how the events they play in are created ?

Again your comments about your operation are great for a spam filter.

Try to understand this is a discussion thread about quality of life for pro pool players. Not a thread for my resume or promoting my business.

 

[JCIN]

Again your comments about your operation are great for a spam filter.

Try to understand this is a discussion thread about quality of life for pro pool players. Not a thread for my resume or promoting my business.

So you have no actual first hand knowledge of professional players, their lifestyles or how the events they play in are created ?

 

[justnum]

So you have no actual first hand knowledge of professional players, their lifestyles or how the events they play in are created ?

I am interested in discussing the topic of the thread. Something you have repeatedly failed to understand.

You did manage to spam the thread with your ads though.

I can't see the spam with the ignore feature.

 

[JCIN]

I am interested in discussing the topic of the thread. Something you have repeatedly failed to understand.

How can you have a knowledgeable discussion about a subject you have no experience or knowledge of ?

As for spam. I see you have been here since 2005. If my sig line is the first you have seen with something promotional in it I would be very surprised. Excellent try at diverting the topic of you knowing nothing at all about pool to my sig line though.

 

[Matt90]

you two guys are funny as hell

to keep on topic I did see two pros splitting a 10 piece chicken nuggets at the first DCC I went to .This was because they were both that broke,we talked ,I'm a talker when I want to be.It really is bad ,someone should do something ,maybe some have tried ,I don't claim to know .I love seeing people in this sport doing well and getting what they deserve for the work they put in.

 

[JCIN]

I can't see the spam with the ignore feature.