Question for people who are better players than me...

alstl

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
...which throws the door wide open for everybody to respond.

My preference would be for this not to degenerate into a aiming system feud.

Take two players - Oliver Ortmann and Ralf Soquet. Every has seen them play. Ortmann has the cue off to the side under his right eye, Soquet has it under his left eye. Two extremes in the way they align and sight the cue.

1. Are the aiming at a different spot on the object ball?

2. Is the cue tip striking the cue ball at a different angle and if so do they apply different English to get the same reaction from the cue ball?
 
my guess is thats how their vision center tells them a straight line
so they hit the cue ball in the same place to do the same reaction
center ball is center ball
1 tip right is 1 tip right
 
alstl said:
...which throws the door wide open for everybody to respond.

My preference would be for this not to degenerate into a aiming system feud.

Take two players - Oliver Ortmann and Ralf Soquet. Every has seen them play. Ortmann has the cue off to the side under his right eye, Soquet has it under his left eye. Two extremes in the way they align and sight the cue.

1. Are the aiming at a different spot on the object ball?

2. Is the cue tip striking the cue ball at a different angle and if so do they apply different English to get the same reaction from the cue ball?
Click to expand...


I think Gene will have some insight on this question...
 
I hope this leads to some good discussion

alstl said:
...which throws the door wide open for everybody to respond.

My preference would be for this not to degenerate into a aiming system feud.

Take two players - Oliver Ortmann and Ralf Soquet. Every has seen them play. Ortmann has the cue off to the side under his right eye, Soquet has it under his left eye. Two extremes in the way they align and sight the cue.

1. Are the aiming at a different spot on the object ball?

2. Is the cue tip striking the cue ball at a different angle and if so do they apply different English to get the same reaction from the cue ball?
Click to expand...


Taking 2. first. I don't know if the cue is hitting the cue ball at different angles but if so then yes they would hit the cue ball in slightly different places to get the identical result.

Unfortunately 1. is only a guess too. I think they aim at the same place on the object ball or the tiniest amount different. The difference would be on the other end, what they are aiming at the object ball.

Just a couple of guesses to keep things going. Pretty much impossible to know what other people do. A friend's wife could only drive mopar products. They had these little blinker indicators on top of the fenders and she located her distance from the center of the road by placing the blinker indicator on the center stripes according to her perception. I made a note to try to avoid riding with her driving whenever possible!

hu
 
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Theory of relativity...

alstl said:
...which throws the door wide open for everybody to respond.

My preference would be for this not to degenerate into a aiming system feud.

Take two players - Oliver Ortmann and Ralf Soquet. Every has seen them play. Ortmann has the cue off to the side under his right eye, Soquet has it under his left eye. Two extremes in the way they align and sight the cue.

1. Are the aiming at a different spot on the object ball?

2. Is the cue tip striking the cue ball at a different angle and if so do they apply different English to get the same reaction from the cue ball?
Click to expand...

A billiards theory of relativity..

What you're really asking here is what is the point they are striking relative to...

To get the same results (within reason with similar equipment) they have to strike the ball in the same place at the same angle, and here is the key, relative to a center ball strike.

The only difference in what you are describing would be where they are striking the ball relative to their perception.

Their eyesight is lined up differently so their perception of where they are striking the balls may differ, but to get the same results, you have to strike the ball in the same place relative to the table and balls.

Which method of perception will work best for you will take experimentation on your part.

Jaden
 
alstl said:
...which throws the door wide open for everybody to respond.

My preference would be for this not to degenerate into a aiming system feud.

Take two players - Oliver Ortmann and Ralf Soquet. Every has seen them play. Ortmann has the cue off to the side under his right eye, Soquet has it under his left eye. Two extremes in the way they align and sight the cue.

1. Are the aiming at a different spot on the object ball?

2. Is the cue tip striking the cue ball at a different angle and if so do they apply different English to get the same reaction from the cue ball?
Click to expand...

I would say Ortmann is right eye dominant and Soquet is left eye dominant.
I have my shaft directly under my left eye as I am left eye dominant.
I tried putting it under my right eye and could not make a ball.
 
bbb said:
my guess is thats how their vision center tells them a straight line
so they hit the cue ball in the same place to do the same reaction
center ball is center ball
1 tip right is 1 tip right
Click to expand...

What he said.
 
ShootingArts said:
Taking 2. first. I don't know if the cue is hitting the cue ball at different angles but if so then yes they would hit the cue ball in slightly different places to get the identical result.

Unfortunately 1. is only a guess too. I think they aim at the same place on the object ball or the tiniest amount different. The difference would be on the other end, what they are aiming at the object ball.

Just a couple of guesses to keep things going. Pretty much impossible to know what other people do. A friend's wife could only drive mopar products. They had these little blinker indicators on top of the fenders and she located her distance from the center of the road by placing the blinker indicator on the center stripes according to her perception. I made a note to try to avoid riding with her driving whenever possible!

hu
Click to expand...

I agree - I think. I believe their aim doesn't change due to where the cue is relative to their head but if your grip hand is under your body with the cue under your left eye vs the cue a foot to the right of your body the angle is different and therefore in order to get the cue ball to the same place they have to use different English.

I remember those Mopar cars, my folks had a 60's Chrysler. Those blinkers on the hood were cool but that is weird that somebody used it for steering. I would ask if I could drive in that case.
 
alstl said:
I agree - I think. I believe their aim doesn't change due to where the cue is relative to their head but if your grip hand is under your body with the cue under your left eye vs the cue a foot to the right of your body the angle is different and therefore in order to get the cue ball to the same place they have to use different English.
Click to expand...

That's only if they're striking it differently. Merely having a different approach, stance or sighting does not mean that somebody can't strike the ball in the same manner. Just imagine that the stick is in the same place, but the person holding it is not.
 
I think you have to first understand that people's brains process information differently. It's like how one person is good at math and another isn't except nobody's way is necessarily better than everyone else's. Some people have methods for processing images that is different than others. I think, the most important thing, is when you get down on that shot, everything feels centered. Now, even if it's not *actually* centered, like over your nose-centered, that's okay so long as your brain thinks it is. As you continue playing pool, one of two things will happen - either you'll hold the cue more centered OR your brain will continue making adjustments so that you deliver the cue as you want. I hope this helps.
 
They are simply placing the cue under their vision centre. A persons own vision centre allows them to see centre ball as centre ball, a straight in shot as straight. If you have your cue outside of your vision centre then it may look like your are lined up to pot the ball, and to hit the cue ball centre but its an optical illusion. You may be lined up to not pot the ball, not lined up to hit centre cue ball or worst case scenario...both. If you constantly apply unintentional side then I would consider looking into finding your vision centre.

Here is a link to a thread I made on sighting which covers how to find your vision centre. There are links to Dr Daves site in which he covers the subject far better than I ever could. Happy reading.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=378397
 
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alstl said:
...which throws the door wide open for everybody to respond.

My preference would be for this not to degenerate into a aiming system feud.

Take two players - Oliver Ortmann and Ralf Soquet. Every has seen them play. Ortmann has the cue off to the side under his right eye, Soquet has it under his left eye. Two extremes in the way they align and sight the cue.

1. Are the aiming at a different spot on the object ball?

2. Is the cue tip striking the cue ball at a different angle and if so do they apply different English to get the same reaction from the cue ball?
Click to expand...

Oliver is right eye dominate - Ralf is left eye.

They are both looking at exactly the same thing.

FWIW - one does not 'sight' a cue

Dale
 
Not to repeat, but I was a competition shotgun shooter in skeet and casual in trap and sporting clays. I do not know anything about these players but it has to do with sight plane based on dominant eye. In shooting, many people black out the reverse dominant eye.

However, forget all this. Look down the cue as best for you. Do not initiate the way someone else sees the balls. NOW WATCH OLD VIDEOS OF BUDDY HALL. WATCH PRE SHOT, WATCH SET UP, WATCH STEP IN, WATCH PRE STROKE, PAUSE, EXECUTION. Repeat. Win.
 
ShootingArts said:
A friend's wife could only drive mopar products. They had these little blinker indicators on top of the fenders and she located her distance from the center of the road by placing the blinker indicator on the center stripes according to her perception. I made a note to try to avoid riding with her driving whenever possible!

hu
Click to expand...

I had a friend that used to drive with his driver side tire on the center line of the road all the time. It totally freaked me out. I asked him how he learned to drive and he said his father taught him to drive this way. I asked him ..."What if your father is coming the other way and both your tires are on the center line?" To this day I have not received an answer.
 
Great post here, Jude! That's exactly why we teach SPF. The subconscious brain processes information several ways, visual being principle, tactile is key, auditory is very acute for some players, and there will always be kinesthetic learners. Every player will respond to at least one of these learning styles. Read, write, say...think, see, do! :thumbup:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Jude Rosenstock said:
I think you have to first understand that people's brains process information differently. It's like how one person is good at math and another isn't except nobody's way is necessarily better than everyone else's. Some people have methods for processing images that is different than others. I think, the most important thing, is when you get down on that shot, everything feels centered. Now, even if it's not *actually* centered, like over your nose-centered, that's okay so long as your brain thinks it is. As you continue playing pool, one of two things will happen - either you'll hold the cue more centered OR your brain will continue making adjustments so that you deliver the cue as you want. I hope this helps.
Click to expand...
 
measureman said:
I would say Ortmann is right eye dominant and Soquet is left eye dominant.
I have my shaft directly under my left eye as I am left eye dominant.
I tried putting it under my right eye and could not make a ball.
Click to expand...

Is there anyway I can talk you in to playing "Righteyed" next time I roll down the hill?
 
Banks said:
That's only if they're striking it differently. Merely having a different approach, stance or sighting does not mean that somebody can't strike the ball in the same manner. Just imagine that the stick is in the same place, but the person holding it is not.
Click to expand...

exactly this
 
I don't think they are good examples.

They're Europeans. They drive on the wrong side of the road too.
 
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