That's my motto too.:wink: John B.
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- Thread starter John Brumback
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That's my motto too.:wink: John B.
No doubt, both are essential, I personally believe though that taking a limited amount of knowledge and practicing and playing with that knowledge and letting it open your mind is more important than having all the scientific knowledge possible, but either being unable to use it due to overthinking or weak execution, which, of course, comes primarily from uncertainty, which generally is caused by overthinking.
Try outside english with matching speed and then get back to me. John B.
I totally agree that overthinking is detrimental to ones game. But, I also feel that overthinking is from a lack of knowledge and experience. You may know five ways to play position, but if you can't choose the best way for you in seconds, you have a definite lack of knowledge.
I can appreciate your position and agree for the most part. However, some people know all five ways and just can't decide which way is right at the time because they rely on the science instead of repetitive application (practice) to assist them.
Neil, tell me the truth. Have you ever played a big match without thinking?. Speaking for myself..I can hardly ever remember where I made my last ball or balls when playing a match of banks. I walk all around the table looking like an idiot tryin to find my balls. Could just be me tho. John B.
The bottom line is, there is usually more than one way to skin a cat, and it's important to know as many ways as possible. However, your knowledge of skinning cats better not get in the way of you skinning cats!! LOL
That's a great one and one that I have never heard before,believe it or notJohn B.
Well thank you sir! Btw, I was gonna say catfish, that may have struck you better!
Yes I embrace the ole slimy the catfish:thumbup: John B.
My highest run, which was 12 racks unfinished on a bar table, was thinking and being very careful on every shot, yet being in the zone. That was many years ago, and I still remember some of the shots to this day. I was keenly aware of each shot, but oblivious to anything else going on around me. So much so, that I watched the guy I was playing unscrew, and walk out the door before I realized I didn't even get paid.
Since I have had the knowledge, and incorporated into my game, I don't think there has been a time when I didn't think. That does not mean that I am slow, it means that in practice I have incorporated my knowledge to where when I play, I know what to do and when to give a shot special attention that it deserves.
Example- I look at the shot, see that I have to go off the object ball at a 90 degree angle. I automatically now know that I need a stun shot, and exactly where to hit the cb to get that stun shot. I don't have to think "well, this requires a stun, and it is this distance, so I have to hit one tip below center at this speed to achieve that." That is all automatic now, but I think it in less than a second. I look at it, and know what to do, and where to hit the cb to have it go where I want it to. That is because I spent the time in practice to learn what does what so it can be duplicated in game play at will.
At times, I will stop and just use my knowledge- example of that- If I have to break out some balls, I will look at where I know the cb will naturally go, say it is one diamond short of what I need. Now I know I can just add one tip of english, and get that extra diamond for certain. I don't have to guess. Same method Buddy uses, the clock system. I don't have to guess at a tip, or a little more or less than a tip, I know just how much I need.
Sure, most shots are what seems like autopilot. But, on certain shots, it sure is an advantage to know what does what and be able to use it.
Another example: A guy asked me to teach him how to kick at balls. I showed him several methods. Then, using one method, I put up another blocker ball to where he could only hit the rail in the same place as last time. But, I move the ob up one diamond on the rail. I then asked him what he was going to do now. He of course said he was going to spin the cb to hit the ob. I asked him to try it. He didn't hit the ob, was a diamond off of hitting it.
I then told him I moved the ob exactly one diamond. Use exactly one tip of english. He tried it, and to both our amazement, he hit it so perfectly that he ran the ob up the rail and made it. Yeah, science really helps.
True knowledge is not just knowing a bunch of stuff. It is knowing it and knowing how and when to use it. Anyone can study Dr. Dave's site and learn a ton of science info about pool. That guy will be struck with paralysis by analysis. But, it won't do them much good if they don't actually get on a table and really learn how to use it. That guy will get out of jams you didn't think he could, or get precise position when needed. Very few will learn enough just by experience to ever reach an A level, let alone pro level.
Well all i can say is that your alot diff from all the pros that I have played and hung around. But on the other hand they probably don't really know what they are doing or why. Good shootin Neil. John B.
John, here's one more example: 2004 Glass City Open. I'm playing Keith. He leaves the one ball frozen to the kitchen end rail one and a half diamonds from the right pocket. The cb is about one diamond out and up from the corner pocket at the other end and side of the table. I studied the shot, used "science", or a "system", and kicked the ball down the rail into the left corner pocket. Ran it down the rail 2 1/2 diamonds. Still remember the shot like I just shot it. Also still remember the look on Keiths face! Almost identical to the same expression he had in the Color of Money when Vince kicked in the ball and he said "it wan't that tough a shot".
Man, I still remember some shots from 40 years ago! There have been many times though, that I won a tournament match, and had no idea who I was even playing and had to ask someone so I knew who's hand to go shake. :embarrassed2:
Man, I still remember some shots from 40 years ago! There have been many times though, that I won a tournament match, and had no idea who I was even playing and had to ask someone so I knew who's hand to go shake. :embarrassed2:
99% of the pros today are there from years and years of experience. Most learned quickly, some had to spend a lot of time in practice to learn things, like SVB. A lot of todays pros say they never have even practiced, they only learned from word of mouth (knowledge) and gambling.
That is great for the exceptional few that can do that. Trouble is, the vast majority of us can't.
We need the extra aid of knowledge to shorten the learning curve.
You take every shot and you practice on this so you are able to make it in every possible way (speed, stroke, sidespin, banking...). There are not many shots like most people believe. If you can do this, then you have developed your own "science". Science is a personal thing in this game and also in other games and sports. If a player knows what to do to make the shots, it doesn't mean he can teach other players how to do it. He will have to tell them exactly what he does with his eyes, feet, grip, shoulder, where exactly he stands to see the shot, how his body and eyes move into the shot... It is almost impossible. Only an idiot would ask Efren or Busty to explain what they do through science.
P.s. Would you ask Larry Bird, Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, Peja Stojakovic about the science involved in 3pt shooting ??????
MAN, I cant answer any question yes or no. :smile:
Many moons ago I started my professional career as an auto mechanic. Prior to my first job I built 2 drag race cars while in high school.
I was intrigued by engines, how they made HP, how balancing them allowed them to spin up higher rpms without blowing up. What was involved with blueprinting a motor.
How important fuel temperature was, the effects of valve timing.... and on and on.
Being a student of the workings of engines gave me the ability to tell what was wrong with them by merely listening and feeling.
How stuff worked in the electrical system allowed me the understanding to wire houses, repair toasters, vacuums, do my own plumbing at home, shoot maintaining and repairing my furnace at home.... you name it.
Going beyond putting something together that you dont understand the working of like someone on an assembly line, gives you huge generic knowledge of the science and physics of all things. It simply broadens your ability and confidence to tackle any project..
Later in life, changing careers, going into law enforcement, police academy, many classes on human psychology, body movements, eye movements, voice changes, and so on gave me an insight to what someone's actions might be. That probably saved my life more than once.
In all my life, understanding the science behind things simply made it easier to do more, improvise more and do things without having to ponder over them. I don't see how pool would be any different.
It is however doing one thing (playing pool) over and over, so like the assembly line person, doing it enough, you can get very good at it and not know why.
This is why many pro players play better than teach the game, and many teachers of the game teach better than they play. The skill teachers of the game have is bred more from understanding than hour after hour of practice.
Having both, understanding, and the ability, desire and time to practice makes one even a greater player IMO.
Many moons ago I started my professional career as an auto mechanic. Prior to my first job I built 2 drag race cars while in high school.
I was intrigued by engines, how they made HP, how balancing them allowed them to spin up higher rpms without blowing up. What was involved with blueprinting a motor.
How important fuel temperature was, the effects of valve timing.... and on and on.
Being a student of the workings of engines gave me the ability to tell what was wrong with them by merely listening and feeling.
How stuff worked in the electrical system allowed me the understanding to wire houses, repair toasters, vacuums, do my own plumbing at home, shoot maintaining and repairing my furnace at home.... you name it.
Going beyond putting something together that you dont understand the working of like someone on an assembly line, gives you huge generic knowledge of the science and physics of all things. It simply broadens your ability and confidence to tackle any project..
Later in life, changing careers, going into law enforcement, police academy, many classes on human psychology, body movements, eye movements, voice changes, and so on gave me an insight to what someone's actions might be. That probably saved my life more than once.
In all my life, understanding the science behind things simply made it easier to do more, improvise more and do things without having to ponder over them. I don't see how pool would be any different.
It is however doing one thing (playing pool) over and over, so like the assembly line person, doing it enough, you can get very good at it and not know why.
This is why many pro players play better than teach the game, and many teachers of the game teach better than they play. The skill teachers of the game have is bred more from understanding than hour after hour of practice.
Having both, understanding, and the ability, desire and time to practice makes one even a greater player IMO.
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