I'd rather just know how to play top speed pool. If that would mean running racks without any clue as to how I'm technically doing it, so be it.
Question.
- Thread starter John Brumback
- Start date
Be patient, John, you will see some responses that will make your head spin.
That's an understatement, you know a lot of the same champions that influenced me, like Vernon Elliot, Tony Fargo, and "Bugs". Don't you think it's funny when someone says they use "science" to play pool? That's like someone saying they use "science" to walk down a flight of stairs. What would Vernon Elliot say about all this? LoL :frown:
Can you imagine learning to draw, paint or play music "by science". Sure we have to understand the proper techniques used by champion players, however at some point it must be done subconsciously, so we can tap into our subconscious potential.....or quit playing and take up video pool.
Let's using walking down the stairs as an example:
"first I see where my foot would naturally land, then I look at the stair, then I calculate the angle my foot must land to stay balanced, then I distribute my weight with 80% on my back foot until the moment of landing on the step, and my weight shifts to the foot contacting the floor............no wonder the game is so difficult to play, the game should be a way to express yourself, not a science exam.
Be patient, John, you will see some responses that will make your head spin. I'd recommend not taking them too seriously, or you'll have trouble making a "cross side," with "ball in hand."
That's an understatement, you know a lot of the same champions that influenced me, like Vernon Elliot, Tony Fargo, and "Bugs". Don't you think it's funny when someone says they use "science" to play pool? That's like someone saying they use "science" to walk down a flight of stairs. What would Vernon Elliot say about all this? LoL :frown:
Can you imagine learning to draw, paint or play music "by science". Sure we have to understand the proper techniques used by champion players, however at some point it must be done subconsciously, so we can tap into our subconscious potential.....or quit playing and take up video pool.
Let's using walking down the stairs as an example:
"first I see where my foot would naturally land, then I look at the stair, then I calculate the angle my foot must land to stay balanced, then I distribute my weight with 80% on my back foot until the moment of landing on the step, and my weight shifts to the foot contacting the floor............no wonder the game is so difficult to play, the game should be a way to express yourself, not a science exam.
Be patient, John, you will see some responses that will make your head spin. I'd recommend not taking them too seriously, or you'll have trouble making a "cross side," with "ball in hand."
That's an understatement, you know a lot of the same champions that influenced me, like Vernon Elliot, Tony Fargo, and "Bugs". Don't you think it's funny when someone says they use "science" to play pool? That's like someone saying they use "science" to walk down a flight of stairs. What would Vernon Elliot say about all this? LoL :frown:
Can you imagine learning to draw, paint or play music "by science". Sure we have to understand the proper techniques used by champion players, however at some point it must be done subconsciously, so we can tap into our subconscious potential.....or quit playing and take up video pool.
Let's using walking down the stairs as an example:
"first I see where my foot would naturally land, then I look at the stair, then I calculate the angle my foot must land to stay balanced, then I distribute my weight with 80% on my back foot until the moment of landing on the step, and my weight shifts to the foot contacting the floor............no wonder the game is so difficult to play, the game should be a way to express yourself, not a science exam.
Be patient, John, you will see some responses that will make your head spin. I'd recommend not taking them too seriously, or you'll have trouble making a "cross side," with "ball in hand."
Oh gosh CJ,they would not want to hear what Vernon would tell them
At least you and I try to help them as nicely as we can:wink:. JB
I know....they're all ''culprits'' :groucho:
OK I think someone needs to define science when applied to pool. Maybe thats why I can't get any better because when I am shooting the one ball with 8 other balls on the table. I am thinking about a lot of things. Do I think about how long the tip stays in contact with the cue ball after contact. No it's just info that may be interesting to some. Science goes into the equipment we use and play on. So when someone decides to play high right instead of high left. Is that applying science? Is it conscious or subconscious?
I would refer to that last part as knowledge not science. Science and playing good pool go together about as well as water and oil.IMO they don't mix well. John B.
Base Line
Great question....I possibly can help. Here's your baseline....all else builds from here. You must FIRST, learn to pocket every ball with a high rolling cue ball only. Speed....your only variant. You'll develop a feel for one of ''thee'' most important aspects of play, the cue balls TRUE tangent line and how it feels and interacts with Speed. Once you understand the physics of the game, and realize how to apply them, you then try and work natural tangent line run outs only. Holy grail of pool.
Great question....I possibly can help. Here's your baseline....all else builds from here. You must FIRST, learn to pocket every ball with a high rolling cue ball only. Speed....your only variant. You'll develop a feel for one of ''thee'' most important aspects of play, the cue balls TRUE tangent line and how it feels and interacts with Speed. Once you understand the physics of the game, and realize how to apply them, you then try and work natural tangent line run outs only. Holy grail of pool.
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I like that a lot better than science!
Nothing wrong with dissecting a sport, but don't do it while you're shooting...or walking, or chewing gum,...Best,
Mike
"science" and "philosophy of nature" were sometimes used interchangeably
Science is not the correct term, it's actually linked to philosophy*. Physics, pursuit of knowledge, and/or Geometry are a better choice of wording.
*
Ever since classical antiquity, science as a type of knowledge has been closely linked to philosophy. During the Islamic Golden Age,[2] the foundation for the scientific method was laid, which emphasized experimental data and reproducibility of its results.[nb 2] In the West during the early modern period the words "science" and "philosophy of nature" were sometimes used interchangeably,[3]
.3 and until the 17th century natural philosophy (which is today called "natural science") was considered a separate branch of philosophy in the West.[4]
Science is not the correct term, it's actually linked to philosophy*. Physics, pursuit of knowledge, and/or Geometry are a better choice of wording.
*
Ever since classical antiquity, science as a type of knowledge has been closely linked to philosophy. During the Islamic Golden Age,[2] the foundation for the scientific method was laid, which emphasized experimental data and reproducibility of its results.[nb 2] In the West during the early modern period the words "science" and "philosophy of nature" were sometimes used interchangeably,[3]
.3 and until the 17th century natural philosophy (which is today called "natural science") was considered a separate branch of philosophy in the West.[4]
Both
I would say a little bit of both.
But sometimes ignorance is truly bliss.
I would say a little bit of both.
But sometimes ignorance is truly bliss.
Science is not the correct term, it's actually linked to philosophy*. Physics, pursuit of knowledge, and/or Geometry are a better choice of wording.
*
Ever since classical antiquity, science as a type of knowledge has been closely linked to philosophy. During the Islamic Golden Age,[2] the foundation for the scientific method was laid, which emphasized experimental data and reproducibility of its results.[nb 2] In the West during the early modern period the words "science" and "philosophy of nature" were sometimes used interchangeably,[3]
Physics..............................hard to argue with gravity.:grin:
easy to argue, hard to win
Gravity > Forward Momentum = Busted Fork Seals X 2 + 2X Badly Sprained Wrists
I have empirical proof of this theory and can now consider it accepted fact.
Hu
Gravity > Forward Momentum = Busted Fork Seals X 2 + 2X Badly Sprained Wrists
I have empirical proof of this theory and can now consider it accepted fact.
Hu
Obviously, I (and many others on AZB) would like to have both ... a complete and solid understanding and/or intuition of all important pool principles and techniques AND the world-class skill required to apply the knowledge and intuition to the fullest extent.
For those interested, the following pages have lots of good arguments from past discussions on this topic (which has been revisited countless times over countless years):
knowledge can be useful, but you still need skill
physics "understanding" sometimes provides useful insight
technical knowledge is not enough
what it take to play like a pro (at the bottom of the page)
Enjoy,
Dave
Dr Dave. I enjoy your warehouse of knowledge, I just wouldn't refer to it as science
I'm pretty sure John Brumback's saying we shouldn't stive have both abundantly. Maybe at some level, but now at his level of performance.
John's a physics expert on the pool table, he can do whatever's necessary with those "spheres" - I have a feeling he would leave the descriptions up to yourself, Dr Dave. I enjoy your warehouse of knowledge, I just wouldn't call it a "warehouse of science" - would you?
I've read about a lot of things on your web site, and will continue to. Some people have said that I somehow violate the laws of physics when I play, however, we both know that's not possible. It's like trying to mentally change an instant replay, it's impossible. Natural laws apply to everyone except maybe Emanuel.
"Knowledge is the Teacher'
I'm pretty sure John Brumback's saying we shouldn't stive have both abundantly. Maybe at some level, but now at his level of performance.
John's a physics expert on the pool table, he can do whatever's necessary with those "spheres" - I have a feeling he would leave the descriptions up to yourself, Dr Dave. I enjoy your warehouse of knowledge, I just wouldn't call it a "warehouse of science" - would you?
I've read about a lot of things on your web site, and will continue to. Some people have said that I somehow violate the laws of physics when I play, however, we both know that's not possible. It's like trying to mentally change an instant replay, it's impossible. Natural laws apply to everyone except maybe Emanuel.
"Knowledge is the Teacher'
some things seem bass ackwards but ain't
Science is a wonderful thing but if John tells me a rooster can tote a bale of cotton the only thing I'm going to do is figure out where I want the cotton!
Hu
Science is a wonderful thing but if John tells me a rooster can tote a bale of cotton the only thing I'm going to do is figure out where I want the cotton!
Hu
Be a student of the game.....it deserves the respect.....play and learn
That's right, the game is the teacher, and we are it's students.
That's right, the game is the teacher, and we are it's students.
Funny!!! :thumbup:
Thanks for taking your time to be on AZ John and actually help the players and also for your patience. Sometimes, it is easy for these threads to to side ways a bit.
You said Yes or No. I say a bit of both, if that makes sense.
I am more of the inquisitive nature. If you showed me how to bank a certain shot and I asked you why that is, and you said, "Just because it does", I would want to know why, not just because. Having the ability to put the science in simpler laymen's terms as I am sure that you can would help. I think that you are asking this question in planning for another DVD, to see what players would like to hear on it.
Just as in when Run Out explained the difference between top and bottom on a kick shot. Transferring English if that is the correct term. Stuff like that helps.
Hope that makes sense.
BTW, I have been tardy in purchasing your banking DVD and will make a point of it within the next couple of weeks. I used to bank not bad, but lately found that I have been missing the hole by anywhere from a fraction to an entire inch. Maybe I was just half always going by feel and was getting lucky on most shots or maybe I haven't been playing enuff. Either way, my banks are starting to really suck.
You said Yes or No. I say a bit of both, if that makes sense.
I am more of the inquisitive nature. If you showed me how to bank a certain shot and I asked you why that is, and you said, "Just because it does", I would want to know why, not just because. Having the ability to put the science in simpler laymen's terms as I am sure that you can would help. I think that you are asking this question in planning for another DVD, to see what players would like to hear on it.
Just as in when Run Out explained the difference between top and bottom on a kick shot. Transferring English if that is the correct term. Stuff like that helps.
Hope that makes sense.
BTW, I have been tardy in purchasing your banking DVD and will make a point of it within the next couple of weeks. I used to bank not bad, but lately found that I have been missing the hole by anywhere from a fraction to an entire inch. Maybe I was just half always going by feel and was getting lucky on most shots or maybe I haven't been playing enuff. Either way, my banks are starting to really suck.
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On the table -- enough to make balls
Off the table -- the science of it all gets more interesting.
Mostly I just want to play better.
Off the table -- the science of it all gets more interesting.
Mostly I just want to play better.
We are about to pave a path for young players all over the world.
I want you to play better too my friend.
PM me your name and address and I"ll send you my entire collection of DVDS. If you already have them, please accept this gift, and donate them to a special person in your life that dreams of playing pool at the highest level one day.
We are about to pave a path for young players all over the world.......one at a time if that's what it takes.
Play well, and let the game be your teacher.
CJ Wiley
I want you to play better too my friend.
PM me your name and address and I"ll send you my entire collection of DVDS. If you already have them, please accept this gift, and donate them to a special person in your life that dreams of playing pool at the highest level one day.
We are about to pave a path for young players all over the world.......one at a time if that's what it takes.
Play well, and let the game be your teacher.
CJ Wiley