Racism

[Da Poet]

Back to the original point, a good pool player is a good pool player and enthicity doesn't mean squat once the balls are racked and broken. I agree with the Fatman on this one.

We could start talking about words, regions, etc, but all that has nothing to do with the game of pool.

 

[NYC cue dude]

From what I've seen so far, everyone has been using the N word solely to reference what someone else has said. However, you have a point, and I for one, will use the initial when referring to someone's use of the term.

To Randy, I'm certainly not saying that there's no racism in pool halls. I'm just saying that there is a degree of mutual respect and acceptance which is far beyond what you can expect in most other areas of American life. I, for one, would be hard pressed to think of any all-white environments that I have encountered (and there have been many), that were more comfortable and open than the pool halls I have been in.

Certainly, most pool halls I have ever been to are diversified greatly, as opposed to "all white" beach clubs, tennis clubs and golf courses....

But just because their is a veritable mix of color, religion, creed and gender involved, doesn't mean that the general public changes thier ideological makeup at the door.

I'll explain.

Because there is so much diversity in a pool hall, the bigots and racists of the world, will for the most part, keep quiet. It is genearally unnacceptable to show your true colors in a diversified place (if you know whats good for you). I have seen people lose their temper in a pool room (over gambling, a foul etc.), and was suprised to hear the results. Everyone knows that the country is divided, pretty closely to 50/50 democrat and republican. People don't all of a sudden become "un-political" when they walk into a pool hall. peolple don't abandon their philosophies. It's who they are. The sad fact is, there are bigots in the world. they don't change either.

Those that havent seen racism's ugly head in a pool room, should consider themselves lucky!

 

[StevenPWaldon]

If there's any racism, I'm sure the reason it doesn't come out because among pool players the only color they see is green.

One thing I have awalys liked about pool halls is I havent ever seen racism and I have been in alot of spots since 85 when I started, I have seen arguments, fights, guns once, and other bad stuff, arguments about a hit, bet, etc. but never once did I ever see or hear anyone ever say anything racist and I like that. Ive heard people say horrible things about other players but never the race card. At one pool room we all used all the racist words out loud around each other and awalys laughed about it-thats cool the respect we all had for each other that we knew we had a special bond deeper than words. thats what I like about "real" pool players-they only care about someones honor, speed, charcter, action and respect-thats the sign of a true pool player. Thats when you know your a player, no matter how you hit'em. I love pool players period.

i also hate when i hear about whites only rooms from way back when, thats shameful.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

If there's any racism, I'm sure the reason it doesn't come out because among pool players the only color they see is green.

Since Pool had predominantly became a gambling game, color didn't matter and money talks. fights in pool halls aren't racially motivated but rather by the stupidity of some people. whether black, white, latino, mexican, asian, everybody fights among themselves.

 

[jsp]

Of course there is racism in the pool world today. I witnessed it firsthand in the first and only professional tournament I watched in person. This was the IPT qualifier in Boston over a year ago.

Right after Kiamco defeated Breedlove in the winners' side final, an extremely well-known American pool player was having a private conversation with two other men about 5 feet in front of me. Because of their proximity to me, I couldn't help but overhear what this player was saying. Basically, he complained that all the Filipino players are "no good f*ckers" and that they should all "just go home". He then gave the names of two very well-known American players that supposedly agree with his sentiments.

As for the those two American players who were referenced by this racist bigot, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt since I didn't hear the words straight from their mouths. But for this particular pool player that I overheard, all my respect for him went down the toilet. Of course through the public eye you wouldn't get any indication that he feels this way towards the Filipino players, but you can't always decode everything a person truly feels from their outward appearance and actions.

Of course, I'm not implying that all American pool players feel this way, or even that a significant fraction of them share the same sentiments. But it would be naive to think that absolutely none of us Americans feel this way towards the Filipino players and other foreign players.

 

[HIRUN526]

I wouldn't want to throw a bucket of black paint on the Rainbow Coalition, but down here I hear the term "niggered" all the time as a synonym for locking someone up in an 8-ball game. Now, honestly, I don't know if that's considered a racist term in that context; yet, it makes me cringe every time I hear it. I mean, what's the origin of that usage? Since the dirtiest pool player down here is a guy named Tony, I prefer rants like "You Tonied me, you s.o.b."



That's odd ...I've lived in Florida for 23 years and have shot pool in gin mills,bars,pool halls etc. all over the state and I have never heard that term used. If someone used that term around me I would tell him that is an unacceptable term to use and refrain from doing it.

I have been shooting pool for about about 28 years and have shot in many states around the country and I have never experienced any racism.

We as pool players really love the game and have a special brotherhood and we don't have any room in our lives for that type of talk or racism. We may argue,fight once in a while and do some wierd stuff...but raceist' were not.

 

[Southpaw]

Well pool has had and still has ALOT of problems, but thankfully racism hasnt been one of them (in my lifetime anyways). Its a cliche, but the only color that matters is GREEN ....and with all the problems all over the world, the poolrooms can be a little place to "get away" from it all.

Southpaw

 

[dabarbr]

Sadly I've heard this term or something like it many times in the past. Not so much these days anymore, thank goodness. I never gave it much thought other than to associate it with a person that wanted to win very badly. ( nothing wrong with that ) Nowadays we call it smart pool. Hopefully this term has disappeared because these days with ball in hand rules, everything goes.

 

[BRKNRUN]

Are you kidding me? I see / hear racism everytime I step into a pool room.

I'll race you to this for that.... I'll give you X to seven.

Oh....and then of course there are the 9-foot players that poke fun at the Bar Box players.........acting like they are superior or something....

And...lets not forget the "custom" cue owners that are "too good" to be caught with a production cue......

I won't even bother to go into the "Chalkism"


Nobody has mentioned the "bastard child that is killing pool" (that used to be in the back rooms of pool halls)....Poker.... Take a look next time you sit down at a poker table in a casino....you will see the yuppy sitting right next to the hip hop gangster, sitting right next to the red neck, sitting right next to the guy that looks like he is the one that left the shopping cart full of who knows what in the parking lot, sitting right next to the porn star looking stripper girl with the very low cut top (on purpose) sitting right next to grandpa on life support, sitting next to the 21 year college geek of a kid with bottle glasses, sitting next to grandma blue hair that only plays the "nuts" (and checks it to the river)......and of course the dealer is 20% navaho indian........yet no one blinks an eye or even thinks about racism....

BTW.....The Hip Hop ganster is not necessarily Black........(you all just assumed that)....and the college geek of a kid with bottle glasses is not necessarily white...(you all just assumed that too).......

The Red Neck....well...that is just a guy that has been out in the sun too long.....

 

[metallicarokerx]

there are alot of racist in my town but no one says anything you only find out about it if you are around the group when they are having fun

 

[CreeDo]

The N-bomb slang is real, and it's up north too.

I find that the areas where there are few black people are where it gets used freely, because there's little risk they'll say it in front of a black person or the friend/relative of one. The word 'jewed' to describe being hooked is also used, but unfortunately that term has fallen into general slang among teenage kids to describe any situation where a person feels cheated. I also hear 'gayed' used much the same way.

What's funny is that I don't really feel any racist vibes from anyone using these terms, they're just repeating what their peers say and it's like it doesn't occur to them that it might bother anyone.

 

[Stones]

How in the hell can you post that garbage on here?!..How far down down-south do you live..and were you at a Klan rally or something?!

I've been playing pool for twenty years and I've played all over the country..and I know for a fact that the word you used above is not pool slang,sorry..

If this is your way of expressing your racial hatred..You are a sad and pathetic soul..Btw, I think this is the wrong board for you..You'd feel more at home chatting on the one that is owned by the hood wearing type.

MODS DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS ACEDOTCOM.

Sorry to pop your bubble, Walt, but I heard the same term as late as the late 80's in more than one pool room. The term was used when a player locked another player up behind the 8 ball.

Just for the record, I never condoned its use either.

Stones

 

[MrLucky]

I have posted in regards to this fact

Yes things are better. (somewhat) but thankfully we will never go back to the days when the great James Evans was not allowed to enter pro pool tournaments and If I'm not mistaken Cicero Murphy had a few tournament doors closed to him as well. I think it's safe to say those days are gone and done with.

Though I have to say this was in the 50's and early to mid 60's when we as black people were openly discriminated against in some manner every where here.

 

[cueandcushion]

Interesting topic.

Many people have referred to my family's pool hall as the "United Nations" pool hall because of all the different languages spoken every night in there. Sorry to say that I hear sexist, racial, ethnic, political, and religious slurs EVERY SINGLE DAY. Every day...bar none. I just think we have a LONG way to go before racism is dead in this country. When I hear some of my customers b'tching about all the "damn K0reans' hogging the billiards table, I usually respond," Yeah, why cant they be like all the white guys, just hanging out, watching free cable, not spending any money, sitting in free air conditioning. They have a lot of nerve actually spending money in a business; how dare them!" The jokes about women, blacks, gays, Polish people, Hispanics, Asians, Jews, Muslims, Catholics are an hourly occurence. Fatboy, you are fortunate that you live in a place that has overcome racism. I am still decades away from that I am sorry to say. I am embarrassed to bring most of my friends to my own business to play pool knowing that the second I walk out...the jokes will begin.

 

[jay helfert]

I kind of left this thread alone hoping it would die on its own. That not being the case, I will add my two cents to the mix.

I played Pool every day for 15 years in the 60's and 70's, and traveled all over the country doing so. I played in pool halls in Harlem and Watts, where I was the only white face in the joint. I NEVER had a problem! We played pool, we gambled and we laughed a lot. I won some money and I lost some too, but never heard anyone complain about Whitey, or make any kind of derogatory remarks.

Now that never stopped the brothers from calling each other names, some of which alarmed me at the time. Often I thought two brothers were really going to go at it, but it always turned out to be posturing. In fact, a few times when I left rooms in rough areas, the brothers would walk me to my car to look out for me.

Even in my last poolroom at Hollywood Park In Inglewood, California, the majority of my business was black customers. And most of my gambling was with black players. Again no problems. We had fun and laughed every day and gambled higher than anywhere else in L.A. for four years.

The other side of this equation is that when black players came into predominately white poolrooms, I never saw any problems racially either. My main room in L.A. for years was the Billiard Den in Hollywood, and Marvin, Cecil and Youngblood spent a lot of time there. All the other great black players like Nate, Iceman, Texas Shorty and Rush Out Red would come in from time to time looking for action too.

I remember one notable game with the very black Gabby in my poolroom in Bakersfield. I was the local hero and when I played all the rednecks would come down to watch the game. There must have been 30 or 40 "good old boys" who watched Gabby give me a thrashing, and no one said boo. They knew I would not put up with it. Gabby played a clean game and never said a word. The only problem was he never missed a ball either. Peter Gunn was another regular game for me then also. He was originally from Bakersfield and he told me that before I had this room, he could not come "uptown" to play pool.

Being Jewish, the one phrase I have heard all my life in every situation was how someone got "jewed" in a business deal of some kind. It always rankled me to hear that expression, especially coming from the lips of straight looking businessmen. But over the years, I got used to it and just let it go. It was not worth getting into a beef over. After all, it is only words and reflects on the ignorance of the person using it, not me.

From my perspective, being a poolplayer is being color blind. You play all kinds of people from all nationalities, and the only thing that matters is how they play.

 

[JimS]

Its not like pool players are naturally less biased than other people, and I certainly don't believe that people just leave their preconceptions at the door when they enter a pool hall. I believe that what it is, in the final analysis, is that the balls speak for themselves. If a player's game is beautiful and logical (and jam up!) it just is. It is self-evident, it transcends all barriers of race and culture and it displays, for all to see, the intelligence, creativity and will of it's owner. In that sense, pool is like music in that its a universal language which allows human beings to reach out across the chasms that so divide them in the outside world.

The other thing, IMHO, that bonds pool players of all stripes is the fact that it is such a distinct sub-culture. As we all know, the network of good players is a relatively small and inbred one with linkages that extend across the globe. When you recognize another player, you have no choice but to acknowledge the talent, work and dedication by which he achieved this status. If you're in the subculture, you compete and gamble with and against, lend and borrow from, and trade information with other members of that fraternity, and a bond inevitably develops. If you're in, you're in and that's all there is to it!

Pool is a sterling example of how meaningful interaction across racial and cultural lines can lead to greater tolerance and understanding. If nothing else, it can be stated without fear of meaningful contradiction that pool players across the globe share mutual respect and acknowledgement of each others' humanity. Its a lot more than can be said for most aspects of society, and its not a bad place to start.

Tap! Tap! Tap! The cat can play! Just a different axe. Beautiful post my friend. Jazz/blues/etc, and pool are hot-beds of creativity that bring men to recognize their kindred spirits. The player doesn't even have to do it real well, he/she just has to exhibit that they have "it".

This thread brings tears to my eyes as it recognizes our sameness at the core... where the music is being played 24/7.

 

[Fatboy]

From my perspective, being a poolplayer is being color blind. You play all kinds of people from all nationalities, and the only thing that matters is how they play.

that was my point when i started this thread, and been my experience as a pool player, we used to call each other racist terms because we were that close, and laugh about it. that way no one could say anything out of line.

thinking back I did walk into Chino's in Oakland one night, they shook my friend down for a few $$$, I knew a guy there, otherwise I would have been in a jam, but that was my oly bad experience

 

[Voodoo Daddy]

BTW, as an Italian, I take exception to the use of the term Guinea, too, unless, of course, it's used by a fellow Guinea.

Quick way to get me pissed off is to call me that, WOP {which stands for WithOut Papers...an old Immigration term}, Greaseball or any other slang that degrades my heritage. Just be kind to people no matter color or size and not judge them on their religious connatation or ethnic background...because in real life
ASSHOLE cames in every color!!

Voodoo~~~been called worse, just dont call me late for dinner

 

[Cornerman]

One thing I have awalys liked about pool halls is I havent ever seen racism and I have been in alot of spots since 85 when I started, I have seen arguments, fights, guns once, and other bad stuff, arguments about a hit, bet, etc. but never once did I ever see or hear anyone ever say anything racist and I like that. .

I find this unbelievable. If you never have heard anything racist in a pool hall or playing pool, I think you're in the minority. As others have said, that god-awful term "nigger pool," is still used and it stings just to read it, let alone write it. Maybe it's therapeutic to write it so we can all see just how stupid the term is.

Racism still exists. Generally, racism is about racism, and not about the venue where the racism rears its ugly head. But just like in every walk of life, it comes up. That includes pool halls and bars with pool tables. Thankfully, it's less than decades gone past.

That being said, as long as we as a country (i.e., the USA) have disputes with other countries, there's bound to be heightened amount of racism. Today, Arabs are getting a bad deal of it.

Fred

 

[Fatboy]

guess i have been lucky, i have seen alot of racism in my life and i hate it, but not in the pool room