Ralf Forfeits!???

[TATE]

Haven't seen it anywhere, so what was Ralf's opinion / attitude toward what was done? Did he just take in stride ? Was anything said in regards to you should have waited or shit happens and I should have been here earlier, etc. ?

I don't know Ralf, but I know that he is a professional. Although he called before the scheduled time in hopes his match could be delayed, he knew in all probability he would forfeit. He can deal with that because he truly is professional.

As far as Corey, he's a pro too and that's why he made the decision he made. Once you're pumped up and ready for a match, it would not be easy to sit there for almost 3 hours to wait for your opponent. It could put him at a disadvantage. He made that decision on a professional basis. It's a business decision. His job is to do well in tournaments.

Chris

 

[mikeyfrost]

I just looked myself in the mirror and realized I am a pussy as well.

I asked myself, "Frosty, would you play ralf and possibly go out 9th-12th or not have to play Ralf and give myself a chance to win it all?"

Corey is a pool player, he's prob not too rich...we aint talking about ralf we talking about money. It was free money, who doesn't take it?

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Why was Ralf out driving anyway?
Was he staying at a different hotel?
Was he out golfing or playing tennis, or at the supermarket?

 

[jason]

Why was Ralf out driving anyway?
Was he staying at a different hotel?
Was he out golfing or playing tennis, or at the supermarket?

None of your or our business really. Maybe he went to get something to eat, maybe he needed to pickup some medicine, maybe he went and got a hooker to relax before the match...who knows who cares.

You are not a prisoner just because you are in a tournament.

 

[Island Drive]

I don't know Ralf, but I know that he is a professional. Although he called before the scheduled time in hopes his match could be delayed, he knew in all probability he would forfeit. He can deal with that because he truly is professional.

As far as Corey, he's a pro too and that's why he made the decision he made. Once you're pumped up and ready for a match, it would not be easy to sit there for almost 3 hours to wait for your opponent. It could put him at a disadvantage. He made that decision on a professional basis. It's a business decision. His job is to do well in tournaments.

Chris

As a pro, you develop your whole schedule around your next days matches, with eating, sleeping, leisure time, practice time and all else needed to prepare for the next days matches. When another is able to change anothers match time it creates problems with the player who's on time. In Jays example, a whole plane load from across the pond, before the event has started is extenuating, but, when I travel off continent, I take into consideration all those factors, and still know sh.. happens and deal with it.
If this whole plane was a day late, would one then expect for all other players to possibly add an additional day to their costs of room and board? Nowadays there are soooooooooo many variables that can affect your plans, its impossible to list all the factors that could or could not come into play. With our game trying its best to satisfy all so that every event goes without a player not missing a match has been the norm, but is it GOOD FOR THE SPORT? Until the pro side of the game is recognized and built around a successful business model, with the dollars to back it up, players will be at the discretion of the TD or Promoter. Since most all events are Promoter events not true Pro Tour entities, this will continue, again, Mark G. your TD made a choice, and Ralph and others I'm sure heard you loud and clear.

 

[SUPERSTAR]

None of your or our business really. Maybe he went to get something to eat, maybe he needed to pickup some medicine, maybe he went and got a hooker to relax before the match...who knows who cares.

You are not a prisoner just because you are in a tournament.

No he's not a prisoner, but it is his responsibility to be at the venue.
And if he was at the host venue and left to go do something...

And since you brought it up...

If he was on his way to the venue from a different hotel he was staying at, that is a completely different situation then him going out to get a hooker to relax before the match.

One situation, you can sympathize with and feel sort of bad for him getting that type of bad roll.
The other, you can not feel bad for him at all and put can put the blame squarely on his shoulders for leaving the host venue, and getting the bad roll.

Either way, he should have been forfeited.

This incident will just make it that much easier to enforce the rules in future events.
And that in turn will make people think twice if they want to go do something that might be cutting it close, and not giving themselves an adequate time cushion for unforeseen events.

Good job CSI.

 

[lfigueroa]

You know why everyone wants to be good guys to the top guys? Because they are the reason the event is there in the first place. No one came to watch this tournament to see a bunch of guys they don't know play pool. No one pays money for a PPV to watch guys they have never heard of. And if you dont turn some money on the gate by people paying to watch you will not see that tournament ever again which means the normal guy will never have a chance to play in it again either.

Everyone talks about wanting pro pool to be bigger and get more exposure, well to do that you need stars and sometimes stars get more rolls than the guy in the catering truck.

I'm not talking about pushing a match because some guy stayed up shooting dice all night and missed his start time. I'm talking about just this type of situation. And it is a rare one. I think it was handled well. The TD did make a decision. He made a decision to do what he could within the bounds of common sense to try and get one of the highest profile matches in tournament to get played rather than never happen. They gave Corey the option to push to 3PM or go at 12:30 as scheduled. They were asking Corey if he wanted to help out a fellow pro and the event or not. He chose not too. And had every right and should not be talked bad about because of it. The TD could have TOLD Corey "You are being pushed to 3" Its that golden rule thing. But they didnt.

The CSI group runs the tightest events in the U.S. They do what they can for people within the bounds of common sense and what the rules allow. They want to keep everyone as happy as possible and believe me, I know the TD's, they will whack a top guys pee pee in a minute if they have to. No one is star struck.

Overall I think it was handled as best as could be expected when you take into account all of the variables and time lines involved.

Nobody is going to miss one or two pro players forfeiting -- they could just as easily been defeated by better players or upset by underdogs -- and who doesn't like to watch and root for an underdog?

And, as long as TDs keep letting high profile players extra leeway, the longer they perpetuate the perception of unfairness in pool (this is suppose to be some kind of "sport" with rules, a level playing field, and all that, isn't it). The solution is to adhere to the rules -- and guess what: once the players see that it's no joke, you're not going to see players tooling around The Strip an hour before their next match in the US Open because they know what the rule is -- if they want to play they will have their butts in the tournament room, not just on time, but early just in case of any unforeseen events.

One last thing: sure people like to support you because of the pros you put on display. But don't lose sight of the fact that tournaments like this, and others around the country, are built on the backs of amateur players who go and do a complete and total donation to the Pro Player Retirement Fund in the full knowledge that they have little to no chance to even cash. I know Corey is not in that boat, but if we're talking about preferential treatment for the marquee players I think that does a huge disservice to the players who don't have name recognition, but come out and play anyway. This kind of exemption from the rules baloney has been going on for years in pool and it's time for it to stop. If absolutely nothing else, every player deserves fair and equal treatment on a par with every other single player in the tournament room.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Spider1]

I agree JCIN. Just go back to the NBA and the Jordan era for example. You don't think MJ had a special set of rules? Of course he did

I've been watching basketball for 30 years or so, and nobody, nobody got protected by the refs like MJ. They had a two foot rule where anyone bumping him or coming within 2 feet got whistled. It was infuriating to watch.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

I've been watching basketball for 30 years or so, and nobody, nobody got protected by the refs like MJ. They had a two foot rule where anyone bumping him or coming within 2 feet got whistled. It was infuriating to watch.

Exactly, it isn't right for a "star" to be given favored treatment. So the MJ example is not a good one to support playing favorites in professional pool.

It really comes down to what the rule was that was in effect and I'd like to hear from someone that was in the players meeting. If the rule was that you forfeit if you are x minutes late, then that settles it. If the rule was that the TD has discretion to decide based on if the player called ahead, if the player is a "star", or if the TD thinks the reason is good enough, then there is reason to debate if the TD did the right thing by forfeiting Ralf.

I've a feeling there was no TD discretion discussed in the players meeting. And in the second case, it wouldn't be right to put the onus on the other player. If he had the discretion, the TD should take the responsibility for making the decision.

 

[JoeyA]

Sometimes.....

I think it's more about principle with Corey...wasn't that long ago that Charlie forfeited him in a tourney that he felt he shouldn't have been forfeited cuz he checked bracket before he left for night & time was changed for next day match...I think that was what happened...So I imagine it's his way of saying rules are rules.

I remember this as well. Don't know if Corey was thinking about Ralf's prowess at the table or "Sometimes you're the bug and sometimes you're the windshield"!

JoeyA

 

[JoeyA]

I don't know Ralf, but I know that he is a professional. Although he called before the scheduled time in hopes his match could be delayed, he knew in all probability he would forfeit. He can deal with that because he truly is professional.

As far as Corey, he's a pro too and that's why he made the decision he made. Once you're pumped up and ready for a match, it would not be easy to sit there for almost 3 hours to wait for your opponent. It could put him at a disadvantage. He made that decision on a professional basis. It's a business decision. His job is to do well in tournaments.

Chris

I like your perspective quite well. It makes sense for both parties..
JoeyA

 

[PoolBum]

Just out of curiosity, if the roles were reversed and Corey was in the minor accident do you think Ralf would have agreed to move the match back to 3pm or not?

I honestly don't know the answer and don't know Ralf well enough to say, but I'm curious if anyone else has an informed opinion on the question.

 

[JoeyA]

Danny Harriman Forfeit & Classy Acceptance

I don't know Ralf, but I know that he is a professional. Although he called before the scheduled time in hopes his match could be delayed, he knew in all probability he would forfeit. He can deal with that because he truly is professional.

As far as Corey, he's a pro too and that's why he made the decision he made. Once you're pumped up and ready for a match, it would not be easy to sit there for almost 3 hours to wait for your opponent. It could put him at a disadvantage. He made that decision on a professional basis. It's a business decision. His job is to do well in tournaments.

Chris

Danny Harriman was playing in the U.S. OPen One Pocket Championship and just before his match, he left the tournament room to take a quick walk back to his room. The walk took longer than he expected and he was already down two games by the time he got back. (Sometimes, well meaning people/friends/fans etc, stop you on your walks and conversations can run on and before you know it, you're running late.)

The fact that he was playing Scott Frost didn't help him get back in the match either. Danny remarked that he couldn't believe so much time had passed but he took the game forfeits like a man and said he was the only one responsible for his being late for his match.

JoeyA

 

[Nostroke]

It could happen....AND HAS!!! One year at the U.S. Open an entire squad of FILIPINOS had their plane delayed getting to Norfolk. Since it was the first round and we had to play matches on two days, we moved all their matches back to the second day. Okay, now hate on me for moving Efren, Francisco, Lee Van, Rudolfo and Ronnie back so they wouldn't be forfeited.

Dont tell me they fly in from Asia and land on the day of the tournament?????

 

[roberthans]

time

An old saying- be there or be square. I have never competed in any tournament (non pool ) where any extra time was allowed for the participant to show up. I have competed in wrestling, tae kwon do, cards and even music and your match time was what it was, period. They call you or set the match up if you're not there everything goes on without you. In martial arts twice over the years I have seen a top seed forfeited for not being in the ring on time. However since it is based on more than one game I can see merit in the idea of a game loss every five minutes. ( Although in fairness showing up late could be used as a sharking move.)

 

[Kid Dynomite]

I have been to many tournaments and Never has a tournament director or promoter given their cell phone out during the players meeting.

So, how is it that players are suppose to be able to call in if something unexpected happens? Short answer is they aren't!

Only the cream of the crop get the honor of having the tournament director or promotors telephone number to use as they see fit.

Additionally, the women will argue they don't get the same treatment! Is this a gender bias, racial bias, patriotic bias or any other form of bias you can think of????

In closing, I just hope for better consistance and a clearer understanding of what to expect. Nothing should be left to interptation! The behind the scenes talks and discussions are creepy and cause for concern.

No one wants to be cheated and no one wants inequality! At this level nothing is a cake walk and jesse engle and matt clatterbuck have proven the champs can get the beat down from locals. Mika knows earl knows and segal knows what's left to say?

Kd
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Just out of curiosity, if the roles were reversed and Corey was in the minor accident do you think Ralf would have agreed to move the match back to 3pm or not?

I honestly don't know the answer and don't know Ralf well enough to say, but I'm curious if anyone else has an informed opinion on the question.

It doesn't matter what Ralf would have done. Whether the TD had discretion to delay the match or not, the waiting player shouldn't be involved, nor asked to be. Frankly, if there was no discretion available to the TD and the rule was the late player forfeits, then the ruling should stand no matter how much Corey or Ralf scream that they're willing to wait for the other player. Keep in mind that delaying the match means that the two players scheduled for that table in the next session are going to be thrown off schedule their schedule by several hours.

 

[Gazelli]

I've been watching basketball for 30 years or so, and nobody, nobody got protected by the refs like MJ. They had a two foot rule where anyone bumping him or coming within 2 feet got whistled. It was infuriating to watch.

I have a very good friend who was a ref during the time MJ was playing. He told me on several occasions "people pay to see him play. If we called every foul he committed he'd be out of the game, and that's not what we're here for.".

 

[jay helfert]

Dont tell me they fly in from Asia and land on the day of the tournament?????

Okay I won't! :wink:
They were scheduled to arrive the night before, but their flight was canceled and they had to go out the next day. They came in the day the tournament began. I rescheduled them for first round matches on day two. No harm, no foul and best of all, NO complaints! I made a decision on what was best for all concerned, including the people who traveled a great distance (at some expense) to see these players compete.

By the way, I didn't ask anyone if this was all right. I made the call and informed the players who were scheduled to play that day. Not one of them protested my decision. I would have asked you but you weren't around. :grin:

 

[Nostroke]

Okay I won't! :wink:
They were scheduled to arrive the night before, but their flight was canceled and they had to go out the next day. They came in the day the tournament began. I rescheduled them for first round matches on day two. No harm, no foul and best of all, NO complaints! I made a decision on what was best for all concerned, including the people who traveled a great distance (at some expense) to see these players compete.

By the way, I didn't ask anyone if this was all right. I made the call and informed the players who were scheduled to play that day. Not one of them protested my decision. I would have asked you but you weren't around. :grin:

Im sure i was there-u werent lookin too hard.

Anyway i didnt say i disagree and i dont under those circumstances. Good call.