mactheknife
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So true. Get Mr. white in there from the MMA scene. He made that sport what it is today (I've never seen so many flat bills in my life).
Ralf Souquet Comment
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So true. Get Mr. white in there from the MMA scene. He made that sport what it is today (I've never seen so many flat bills in my life).
how can you forget the LEGEND that is DRAAAAAAGO
Yeah, those maginficient players are no more than a 55/45 underdog to Ralf, and so, perhaps is Hohmann, but form says they are the underdog. 55/45 is not a coin toss.
Don't forget, Ralf just got back form Asia, where he played two challenge matches against Biado and Orcullo, and beat both of them on their own turf.
If you're going to make a valid comparison....
You'll have to eliminate from your roster of Europeans ANYONE who has been living and playing the majority of their play in America.
Mika has been competing and living in America, so eliminate him from your list.
Alex has been living and competing in North America, so eliminate HIM from your list...
Go through your list and eliminate anyone whose primary place of living, practice and competition is America because they are only then likely doing that well because of the constant competition they have from day to day... and the up and coming out of the Eurotour has NO bearing on their play and the amatuer support they recieve in Europe has NO bearing on how well they're doing either...
So don't come on here bashing American play and include Primarily American players in your list of Europeans when talking about supposed European superiority...
Jaden
p.s. I promise you that if we were to start fielding these international tourneys with our top players, America would start finishing strong again.
You can't finish strong or top out a field that you don't compete in.
You'll have to eliminate from your roster of Europeans ANYONE who has been living and playing the majority of their play in America.
Mika has been competing and living in America, so eliminate him from your list.
Alex has been living and competing in North America, so eliminate HIM from your list...
Go through your list and eliminate anyone whose primary place of living, practice and competition is America because they are only then likely doing that well because of the constant competition they have from day to day... and the up and coming out of the Eurotour has NO bearing on their play and the amatuer support they recieve in Europe has NO bearing on how well they're doing either...
So don't come on here bashing American play and include Primarily American players in your list of Europeans when talking about supposed European superiority...
Jaden
p.s. I promise you that if we were to start fielding these international tourneys with our top players, America would start finishing strong again.
You can't finish strong or top out a field that you don't compete in.
I like this post, becuase it raises an important point. As you note, a player's nationality does not always tell you they developed their game or where they first built their championship level skills.
Hence, I agree 100% that Mika should be thought of as American, for most of his development as a player came in America playing American events.
Appleton, though he has moved to America recently, is a product of the English 8-ball system and the Euro-tour. Hence, I'll always think of him as European.
Hohmann was already a World 9-ball champion when he moved here. He is a product of European competition and European coaching and instruction.
I'll always view Pagulayan as Fillipino, for all of his influences are Fillipino, he is a product of the Fillipino system, and plays the Fillipino style of pool.
Certainly, everybody on this year's Team Europe is European in the sense suggested here. Like you, I'd like to see Pagulayan added to "Team North America," assuming he is a dual citizen of Canada and the Philippines.
Your post reminds me of when Martina Navratilova played for the US Federation Cup team (ladies equivalent of the Davis Cup team). Sometimes, nationality, competitive origin, and residence can obscure the picture of international pedigree.
Thanks for your insights.
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Good point. What about Ignacio Chavez who cleaned Appleton out of some big cash a few years back? What country would he represent? Nonetheless he highlights your point about a bunch of nobodies out there who can really play, especially for the cash.
Mika was living in NYC in 2001.
i don't know about 25 but i'll try......
the silver surfer
the watcher
dark phoenix
darth vader with the empire death star
....darn that's just four....
especially if it involves mud in one way or another....:thumbup:
Yes, but Mika's development as a true champion took place chiefly in the US. He moved here in about 1998 and was not nearly the player he was to become by 2001. In fact, he told me at the time that his biggest reason for moving to America was to develop his game in a manner not possible if he remained based in Finland. He did not, at first, have a lot of success at the local and regional levels here, but he was correct in that his championship pedigree did, in fact, develop. He was starting to mass produce titles in America by 2000. I remember it all very well, having been one of his very first friends when he moved here.
Not really a similar situation to Thorsten at all.
I know that Ralf is a great player and has accomplished great things in the past and recently
However, some people view Corteza as the superior player as compared with Orcullo. Mika hasn't played great recently, but he is very accomplished- as is Bustamante.
Anyway, they're all great players. This is basically nit picking
Recent form suggests otherwise. Both Dennis and Lee played in the 2011 Derby City Classic nine ball event, and Dennis was the one that snapped off the title, beating Van Boening in the final, while Lee tied for ninth.
Obviously, any match between the two would be very close, and as you note, these are all great players.
The top European players can compete with anyone, but the best players in the world come from Taiwan and the Phillipines.
No doubt, the talent pool runs deepest in Asia.
but in a Mosconi Cup type match, a team of Alex, Dennis, Lee Van, Alcano and Yang would, in my view, be about equal to a European team of Souquet, Appleton, Feijen, Immonen and Hohmann.
Ah, it would sure be nice to watch, wouldn't it? If only .....
Please allow me to throw in the value of Greek players too! We have a quote in Greece like: "If you don't talk highly of your home it will fall down on your head". Some of the Greek champions have played top pool in European level, finishing top places in European championships and Eutotour events. In 2010 in the world team cup they beat team USA in q/f, and that team was the 2009 Mosconi cup winner! Johnny Archer spoke highly of the Greek team and a really friendly relationship was established! Apart from this, as an idea what would you guys think about adding a third team (+/- a fourth..) to the Mosconi cup, say Asia...? We could have a poll that could reach some ears and make the event perhaps even more interesting. The 2010 world team cup was really exciting, too bad it wasn't repeated this year.
Petros
Petros
Actually, the Mosconi Cup had some female players its first year (1994) -- Jeanette Lee and Vivian Villarreal for the US, Allison Fisher and Franziska Stark for Europe. I think that was the only year for female players.