I know what you mean, but I disagree.
The MC format is not stupid (although I agree it doesn't really prove anything). It doesn't prove who the best team or player really is but it's exciting - and that matters.
See this post from HawaiianEye
Ralf Souquet Comment
- Thread starter Hungarian
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I know what you mean, but I disagree.
The MC format is not stupid (although I agree it doesn't really prove anything). It doesn't prove who the best team or player really is but it's exciting - and that matters.
See this post from HawaiianEye
well I think Europe is getting stronger but really depends on what country are you talking about. For example Italy is not a strong country (except some player like Petroni, Muratore) there are not players capable of winning the eurotour or any european torunament. I know two guys from my home city... they are the best two players in my home city and they played for three years at Eurotour with very little fortune. One lost against Peach 9-6 not really a bad result but he was out at the first day. They stopped going at the Eurotour because of the flight costs, hotel and other expenses.I don't blame them, you pay that much and then you get knocked the first day.... They also stopped playing pool. How can you get better when nobody in your homecity play pool seriously, no weekly tournament, no competition? Basically the 99% of the players here are bangers. What can you do? Can you move to another city only to play pool when you have a family, a job? No, you can't. This is the sad state of pool in my homecity. Probably the only good places to play pool in Italy are Rome ( where there is the pool room of Fabio Petroni), Milan ( maybe) and I heard Genova.
And Wu, Yang, Jung Lin Chang, probably Kuo. People always forget about the Taiwan players since we see them so very rarely but the top 3-4 players from Taiwan and China are coin flips against Ralf, not 55-45, they are at worst coin flips. You put Ralf in the finals of a world championship in 9 or 10-ball and he is a coin flip against those guys.
I also think if you put Ralf up against Hohmann in a tournament final he is a coin flip, Hohmann is a rock in tournament finals and has proved it more then once, he is one of the best closers in the game when he gets to the end, not quite Sigel but noone really wants Hohmann in a major event final. He drilled Alex for a world championship from out of nowhere and drilled Manalo for a IPT event worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. When Hohmann is motivated he is an absolute rock and simply does not miss, he also plays almost a Souquet style with a complete lack of emotion and simply pure focus.
I would be surprised if he said that. 2-shot 8-ball is a very tough game and in the year and abit I played it when living in Australia it helped my pool game hugely. Alot of the skills I see in Appleton such as his potting ability and accuracy on the cueball with regards to english are there because of his tremendous amount of time put into English 8-ball. That game is phenomenal at building fundamentals to a far greater extent then pool IMO. Pool players can learn to shoot pool at a world class level despite some odd fundamentals, never seen a world class English 8-baller playing with anything less then phenomenal fundamentals. Keep in mind, snooker pro's often play for the english 8-ball title, it is a hard game to reach the top of and you are playing some of the best cueists in the world.
if I must be sincere Darren's fundamentals are not perfect imho. I don't know if he developed bad funamentals playing pool but if you watch closely his wrist is not perpendicular with the floor and I also noticed the habit of moving a bit on his shots.
What Ralph had said was understandable, he loves Europe and proud of what they accomplished. Remember that Busta was the first German (he used to live there) champion. He captured every known championship there was. So I guess they picked up his style of play. I think he was once a pool teacher in Germany. And also remember when Reyes was interviewed on how many more like him left in the Philippines and he said there are 32 more that are good or better than him. Reyes is also proud or realistic about his statement.
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Jerry Forsyth
Well-known member
Please all remember that Ralf made his comment about Euro strength in the context of a casual interview taken between sets. I asked a question and he answered. He did not say: "Wait a minute, let me do some math" before coming out with his statement about four or five teams. It was just a casual remark meant to showcase how much stronger the European pool scene is now compared to a dozen years ago.
And he is correct. The European scene is MUCH stronger now than then.
And he is correct. The European scene is MUCH stronger now than then.
lol ok I basically stopped posting here because I can't stand all the nits using the forums to spew ignorance everywhere.
but anyways, like someone else said they are all top class pool players who take turns beating each other on any given day, yes a lot of the recent big tournaments have been getting snapped off by Europeans.
someone bashed Morris for example about how he can't play top notch like the AZ forum hero SVB.... just ridiculous, is he likely to do it as often, No... is his top gear just as sick.... YES. he is just an example. I have seen Kiamco beat souquet 3-4 times and 2 of which he just wiped the floor with him. and wasnt even on anyones list. you guys get what I am saying yet lol.
you are just nit picking.. and the Europeans have improved so much lately so good for them.
but anyways, like someone else said they are all top class pool players who take turns beating each other on any given day, yes a lot of the recent big tournaments have been getting snapped off by Europeans.
someone bashed Morris for example about how he can't play top notch like the AZ forum hero SVB.... just ridiculous, is he likely to do it as often, No... is his top gear just as sick.... YES. he is just an example. I have seen Kiamco beat souquet 3-4 times and 2 of which he just wiped the floor with him. and wasnt even on anyones list. you guys get what I am saying yet lol.
you are just nit picking.. and the Europeans have improved so much lately so good for them.
Celtic,
Some interesting insights here. I have never thought of uk (really Australian) 8-ball as producing good fundamentals. But as you suggest, I am sure that the snooker element is important - I believe that most top uk 8-ball players play some snooker (a couple of snooker pros play uk 8-ball occasionally).
But in Europe, only the UK & northern France play uk 8-ball. So the current strength of European pool must have its roots in something else. And I don't think that something is snooker (looking at their fundamentals, although I can believe Ortmann may have played a fair amount of snooker, I would be surprised if, for example, Souquet has).
So I think that we have to look elsewhere for an explanation of the strength of the Europeans. (Including Appleton.)
TheThaiger
Banned
Leave the Brits out of that. We ALL have strong fundamentals because we ALL have a snooker background (or english 8 ball in its miniature form). You MUST be able to cue correctly to achieve success.
You lot can go on and on chasing your tails if you want, but I strongly suggest you have a good look at the grass roots of the game in the US and change the way you teach your kids, because all I can see is a ropey house of pool based on shaky foundations.
Bottom line: Americans can't cue. Don't get me wrong, you have some fine players and champions, but I see better cueists every day of the week in the Dog and Duck than represented the US in the Mosconi Cup.
TheThaiger
Banned
English 8 ball and snooker are indistinguishable here, in terms of fundamentals and general ethos.
I don't know how many of you are aware of this, but American pool is played by probably less than 1% of all cue sport players in the UK - it is considered a game for girls here. There are a thousand Mellings on the fringes of the snooker/English 8 ball scene. It would be carnage if the UK adopted American pool.
But....put a musket in our hands and watch us run those limey bastards ALL the way back across the pond
!!!Maniac
You mean.....similar to the carnage that would've been the UK had America not bailed your arses out of the second World War
???Maniac
Why is it then that when full blown superstars like Davis, White, or even O'Sullivan have tried to make the adjustment to American pool they have really not even made a dent?
I certainly agree that their fundamentals are "better" than most or perhaps all of the Americans and yet they all fell way short. I had expected some of them to do better than they did. Especially O'Sullivan in the IPT. He is without a doubt one of the most talented cuists ever and he did OK but didnt even come close to dominating.
A game for girls? I can see what you mean, since Allison is one of the only ones to quickly adapt and win.
TheThaiger
Banned
You mean.....similar to the carnage that would've been the UK had America not bailed your arses out of the second World War
Maniac
Christ, not here as well. I take you've not ventured into NPR for a while...
TheThaiger
Banned
I mean for sissies, for those that can't handle a real man's game.
Davis, White et al have never made the transition because they know where their meal ticket is. If they'd made the switch during their formative years they'd have done much better.
TheThaiger
Banned
You're welcome to him, especially on £6m a year! Finding good managers are the least of our problems - it's the players we lack. Our entire structure needs dramatic overhaul.
I've made this point before, but the parallels between the English football team and the US Mosconi team are striking - we both have ludricrous expectations based on past performances, but are let down by poor technique. It is no coincidence that Spain are reigning World & Euro champions - their technique is superb.