Rating One Pocket Players

[hemicudas]

When I originally made this list I admit I gave too much credit to a few players that haven't been playing long enough to earn the rating that they were given.Since then I consulted with 2 very knowledgeable players from the past,and revised my list in terms of rank. The new list in my opinion is very accurate ,and in no way is meant to disrespect any player.I appreciate all of the posters on this thread and do realize that a few of them were upset with my ranking.But once again this is just an opinion that I have and shared to offer another perspective on this controversial debate.

#1 Reyes
#2 R.Allen
#3 E.Kelly
#4 C.Joyner
#5 BUGS
#6 A.Hopkins
#7 J.Breit
#8 S.Dalton
#9 G.Mathews
#10 S.Cook

#28 B.Incardona What!! What do you know.

Billy plays better than I do/did but I have seen vertually all of the top one pocket players from the late 60s to present day. I have my own opinion of the top 10 all time and feel as qualified to post it as anyone. Therefore, here it is.

1. Efren
2. Ronnie Allen
3. Eddie Taylor
4. Bugs Rucker
5. Grady Mathews
6. Ed Kelly
7. John ?Rags? Fitzpatrick
8. Hayden Lingo
9. Kenny Romberg Remus
10. Buddy Hall

No, Jack Breit is not on my list. If Red is/was being staked he would be #5 or 6 but on his own money, Jack's, game dropped a ball and a half. Now, start the *****in about this list. Oh, I also think Cliff's game is too inconsistant.

 

[1on1pooltournys]

Nick Varner!!!!?

How come no Nick? Especially in the past 40 years. I've seen him beat in person 6 of the players on your list and i'm betting he beat most if not all of them at one time or another. I'm really suprised by this. Anybody else?

 

[jay helfert]

Billy plays better than I do/did but I have seen vertually all of the top one pocket players from the late 60s to present day. I have my own opinion of the top 10 all time and feel as qualified to post it as anyone. Therefore, here it is.

1. Efren
2. Ronnie Allen
3. Eddie Taylor
4. Bugs Rucker
5. Grady Mathews
6. Ed Kelly
7. John ?Rags? Fitzpatrick
8. Hayden Lingo
9. Kenny Romberg Remus
10. Buddy Hall

No, Jack Breit is not on my list. If Red is/was being staked he would be #5 or 6 but on his own money, Jack's, game dropped a ball and a half. Now, start the *****in about this list. Oh, I also think Cliff's game is too inconsistant.

If you saw Rags and Lingo, it was in your dreams.

I did see Clem Metz play. And imo he belongs on any list of all time One Pocket players.

 

[hemicudas]

If you saw Rags and Lingo, it was in your dreams.

I did see Clem Metz play. And imo he belongs on any list of all time One Pocket players.

No I didn't see either of them play, Jay but I, like Billy, consulted with players that I know and trust, ie Sonny Springer, who didn't play the game too shabby himself. Hey, if I had gone to 50 I might have you and John H. in there too. Billy most certainly would have made it.

 

[jay helfert]

No I didn't see either of them play, Jay but I, like Billy, consulted with players that I know and trust, ie Sonny Springer, who didn't play the game too shabby himself. Hey, if I had gone to 50 I might have you and John H. in there too. Billy most certainly would have made it.

Try 500 to find a place for me. I can see myself at about 499. I would have just made the money at Derby City this year, but forfeited my match to get to the awards dinner.

 

[watchez]

When I originally made this list I admit I gave too much credit to a few players that haven't been playing long enough to earn the rating that they were given.Since then I consulted with 2 very knowledgeable players from the past,and revised my list in terms of rank. The new list in my opinion is very accurate ,and in no way is meant to disrespect any player.I appreciate all of the posters on this thread and do realize that a few of them were upset with my ranking.But once again this is just an opinion that I have and shared to offer another perspective on this controversial debate.

#1 Reyes
#2 R.Allen
#3 E.Kelly
#4 C.Joyner
#5 BUGS
#6 A.Hopkins
#7 J.Breit
#8 S.Dalton
#9 G.Mathews
#10 S.Cook

#28 B.Incardona What!! What do you know.

If you are going to hold it against a few players that haven't been playing long enough to earn the rating (ie Scott Frost) then in the same respect you should hold it against how some of these players have played the past 20 years. I have never seen Ronnie Allen play anything but like a dog in my life (20 years of watching pool) so I would drop him off your list as that is way too much time to qualify as a good player. From the players that I have seen hit a ball:
#1 Reyes #2 Bugs #3 Joyner #4 Frost #5 Dalton #6 Varner #7 Alex Pagulayan #8 David Matlock #9 Buddy Hall #10 Jose Parica. #11 (tie) Danny Harriman & George San Souci & Dasher (don't know his real name, from Chicago).

 

[vagabond]

QUOTE]
hemicudas,
do you know that when our Mississippi boy reed pierce won US open 9 ball title in 1995 ,`no saint billy` cardona in an interview with billiards digest magazine said ``reed is an average player``?

 

[ribdoner]

If you are going to hold it against a few players that haven't been playing long enough to earn the rating (ie Scott Frost) then in the same respect you should hold it against how some of these players have played the past 20 years. I have never seen Ronnie Allen play anything but like a dog in my life (20 years of watching pool) so I would drop him off your list as that is way too much time to qualify as a good player. From the players that I have seen hit a ball:
#1 Reyes #2 Bugs #3 Joyner #4 Frost #5 Dalton #6 Varner #7 Alex Pagulayan #8 David Matlock #9 Buddy Hall #10 Jose Parica. #11 (tie) Danny Harriman & George San Souci & Dasher (don't know his real name, from Chicago).

The opening post of the thread has BILL's opinion in terms of ranking "current/modern" players.

IMHO BILL's ability to make favorable games is prolly a by-product of accuratily clocking speed. Also it was always easier for me (I don't know about others) to determine how fast someone runs when I'm playing them vs sweatin.

off topic: how are you making out in your high $ fantasy BB league?

I'm in 3rd in our private cecil entry fee league (mixed) in spite of the fact my only all-star was V-MART. That's what I get for not wearing my hat to the draft....

 

[ribdoner]

QUOTE]
hemicudas,
do you know that when our Mississippi boy reed pierce won US open 9 ball title in 1995 ,`no saint billy` cardona in an interview with billiards digest magazine said ``reed is an average player``?

Could he have been clairvoyant (j/k)

Would like to see Reed pony up again....before its too late

 

[watchez]

Bill's ability to make favorable games is well respected.

I am probably one of the few people on this board to be winner on him. I doubt he remembers or could care as I am a nobody. I took the measley $200 I won to his bank the next day & got $500 for it. That was even sweeter.

side note: 5th in league. 4th spot is money slot where u get your $1K back. Lookin for a strong last 6 weeks as that is how my strategy of it comes into play. Good luck to you.

 

[wincardona]

ridiculous

Billy plays better than I do/did but I have seen vertually all of the top one pocket players from the late 60s to present day. I have my own opinion of the top 10 all time and feel as qualified to post it as anyone. Therefore, here it is.

1. Efren
2. Ronnie Allen
3. Eddie Taylor
4. Bugs Rucker
5. Grady Mathews
6. Ed Kelly
7. John ?Rags? Fitzpatrick
8. Hayden Lingo
9. Kenny Romberg Remus
10. Buddy Hall

No, Jack Breit is not on my list. If Red is/was being staked he would be #5 or 6 but on his own money, Jack's, game dropped a ball and a half. Now, start the *****in about this list. Oh, I also think Cliff's game is too inconsistant.

I have beaten Ronnie Allen,Bugs,Grady,Kelly,Romberg,and Buddy. Why am I not #5 on your list.lol

 

[hemicudas]

I have beaten Ronnie Allen,Bugs,Grady,Kelly,Romberg,and Buddy. Why am I not #5 on your list.lol

For the same reason I have beaten, David Howard, plaing 8 ball. Because you and I were not the favorites yet took it off.

 

[jay helfert]

If you are going to hold it against a few players that haven't been playing long enough to earn the rating (ie Scott Frost) then in the same respect you should hold it against how some of these players have played the past 20 years. I have never seen Ronnie Allen play anything but like a dog in my life (20 years of watching pool) so I would drop him off your list as that is way too much time to qualify as a good player. From the players that I have seen hit a ball:
#1 Reyes #2 Bugs #3 Joyner #4 Frost #5 Dalton #6 Varner #7 Alex Pagulayan #8 David Matlock #9 Buddy Hall #10 Jose Parica. #11 (tie) Danny Harriman & George San Souci & Dasher (don't know his real name, from Chicago).

Just about right. The last time I saw Ronnie play good was in the Challenge match against Danny in 1987. He had a good 15-20 year run on top though, from the mid 60's to the mid 80's. Just like everyone acknowledges Efren as the greatest right now, everyone felt the same about Ronnie at One Pocket back then.

It's a real shame there is no video of Roonie in action back then. He played a unique style of One Pocket and very effective.

 

[wincardona]

For the same reason I have beaten, David Howard, plaing 8 ball. Because you and I were not the favorites yet took it off.

You have a point,but unfortunately a lot of people don't see it that way.That is the reason why there is no clear end to this debate.
Every player on both of our list have played one another a number of times (providing they were in the same era)and traded wins too often to establish in the sweaters prospective,who the best players really are. The only people that really know,are the players themselves. And that is true.

 

[wincardona]

If you are going to hold it against a few players that haven't been playing long enough to earn the rating (ie Scott Frost) then in the same respect you should hold it against how some of these players have played the past 20 years. I have never seen Ronnie Allen play anything but like a dog in my life (20 years of watching pool) so I would drop him off your list as that is way too much time to qualify as a good player. From the players that I have seen hit a ball:
#1 Reyes #2 Bugs #3 Joyner #4 Frost #5 Dalton #6 Varner #7 Alex Pagulayan #8 David Matlock #9 Buddy Hall #10 Jose Parica. #11 (tie) Danny Harriman & George San Souci & Dasher (don't know his real name, from Chicago).

The reason I dropped Frost and Chohan off the list was because it is unfair to the great players that were great for over .at least 10 years. After I thought about it I made that conclusion.One of the measuring sticks is when a player plays great for over a certain period of time.Then he has passed the test of time. A criteria that must not be over looked. In regard to your request to take Ronnie Allen off the list is ridiculous,Ronnie not only passed the test of time,he passed the test of time staying #1.Don't forget the list is based on the player in his prime.

 

[hemicudas]

You have a point,but unfortunately a lot of people don't see it that way.That is the reason why there is no clear end to this debate.
Every player on both of our list have played one another a number of times (providing they were in the same era)and traded wins too often to establish in the sweaters prospective,who the best players really are. The only people that really know,are the players themselves. And that is true.

On that I totally agree.

 

[JimS]

I remember when posters drove Thorsten off and I hope they don't do it to Billy.

Billy fits in beautifully with the other experienced, reasonable, intelligent and CREDIBLE az participants like Blackjack, JAM, Grady, Jay, Bob Jewett, Freddy, and a few others who always have my attention and respect. I wish that Thorsten would post again and that people like Mark Wilson, Danny D, Buddy etc had the time/inclination to post.

 

[Flex]

I remember when posters drove Thorsten off and I hope they don't do it to Billy.

Billy fits in beautifully with the other experienced, reasonable, intelligent and CREDIBLE az participants like Blackjack, JAM, Grady, Jay, Bob Jewett, and a few others who always have my attention and respect. I wish that Thorsten would post again and that people like Mark Wilson, Danny D, Buddy etc had the time/inclination to post.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Wonder if Mark Wilson will ever post here... He'd sure have a lot to contribute.

Flex

 

[Terry Ardeno]

No I didn't see either of them play, Jay but I, like Billy, consulted with players that I know and trust, ie Sonny Springer, who didn't play the game too shabby himself.

Bill,

How many people on this forum have ever seen Babe Ruth play? Yet, how many can say for a fact that he was a great player?

I agree with you. I've never seen DeOro, Greenleaf, Taberski, Rudolph, Lingo or Rags, but I KNOW they were awesome players.

On a related note. Where would you rank Shannon Daulton on the all time list? Can you give me your synopsis of his game? Thanks!

 

[hemicudas]

Bill,

How many people on this forum have ever seen Babe Ruth play? Yet, how many can say for a fact that he was a great player?

I agree with you. I've never seen DeOro, Greenleaf, Taberski, Rudolph, Lingo or Rags, but I KNOW they were awesome players.

On a related note. Where would you rank Shannon Daulton on the all time list? Can you give me your synopsis of his game? Thanks!

The top 3 or 4 are pretty easy, Terry. Shannon would be my #5 behind, Efren, Cliff, Cohen and Frost. After 5, maybe after 2, it's guesswork.