Rating One Pocket Players

Smorgass Bored said:
When I read Billy's post mentioning the players of the past 40 years and others bring up the names of players past, I think of the great players that have passed on.
With the recent passing of N.Y. Blackie and Mike Betts, I think this song (though not about pool) brings back memories of those that have gone on ahead.... people gone, but not forgotten.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsZFiMo8TIc

Doug
( enjoy it, I did )
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Doug:

Just got thru reading the entire post on best ever one pocket players by Billy Incordonia. Very interesting. What an intelligent person he is. Sorry that he and Grady had their differences on the topic. They are both such great players, commentators,persons etc. I thought Billy handled himself very well though. He's also the best aging player that I have ever seen. I saw him in Mobile this year and at 65 years young he can still fire those balls in the hole. I don't think any person his age can top him at that.

Since i am only a 3 or 4 year player I feel quite honored to agree with much of what he said and who he picked. Especially as related to the current players. I also put Corey Duel up close to the top. A lot of people leave him off the list. His cue ball control is close to Efren's IMHO.

Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for the "you tube" reference of
Don Mclean........The meaning of American Life. That was a fantastic video. I really like things like that. So inspirational and reminiscent of what life is all about. Especially as for being an American. Too bad people from different areas of the world can't garner the same respect and feelings for one another. Personally, I don't think of myself as an American but rather as a "citizen of the world". I hope I don't offend anyone. That is just my opinion.


Thanks again. I also very much appreciated the comments of Jay Helfert and Bill Porter on this subject also.

And, in the same vein that you said it to Efren "Thank You Mr Incordona".

gbru.....Mobile
 
wincardona said:
Several months ago I was reading a rating list of the best one pocket players in the world. Some I agreed with ,others I didn't.I will post the top 10 both current,and also in the last 40 years. (my opinion) INCIDENTALLY,I GAMBLED WITH ALL OF THEM.I would like to add this, My top 5 players are my honest opinion that will NEVER change,in my last 40 year list,unless there will be some talented player that will change my mind.But as it stands now there they are..

CURRENT ---------LAST 40 YEARS

#1 REYES ----------#1 REYES
#2 JOYNER ----------#2 R.ALLEN
#3 FROST ----------#3 E.KELLY
#4 CHOHAN ----------#4 JOYNER
#5 DUEL ----------#5 BUGS
#6 J.JONES ----------#6 A. Hopkins
#7 BUSTAMANTE------#7 J Breit
#8 S. DALTON -------- #8 S.DALTON
#9 L.NEVIL -----------#9 Grady Mathews
#10 G. OWEN ---------#10 S. Cook

Billy,

I agree with the the list of current players. But on the Last 40 years list, I really think you and Varner are in the top 10.
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wincardona said:
Jay,

Another Reyes story. Reyes and I are very friendly,as you know. I guess it started after he beat me badly in vegas, shortly after Reds tournament in Houston And the last match we played in Vegas I won .I have to admit I tricked him,it was the only way I could of won.I made a game with him playing 9 ball on a certain table getting the 8 & the break for the next day. That night I changed the cloth ,in replace I put a fairly new cloth on the table which increased my ball pocketing production on the break.Even Reyes couldn't over come that. After that I moved to Chicago to live and Reyes also moved there ,and everything The Beard said was true. We played Reyes all summer,many differen't one pocket games. The reason why so many differen't games is that he's the only player that improved drastically from Monday to Tuesday He showed improvement EVERY DAY. Shortly after the summer ended there was a tournament in Atlantic City, I was sitting all alone in the practice room All alone.Reyes walked into the room and didn't acknowledge me,don't forget we were very close at that time. I was sitting in front of a table in a room with about 10 tables. He purposely jointed his cue and started to practice on the table that I was sitting in front of . Never acknowledgeing me. He threw 15 balls out on the table (only on half the table between the side pockets and the foot rail ) there was a lot of congestion. He then proceded to run all balls in rotation. It was a beautifull thing to watch.He ran FOUR CONSECUTIVE RACKS doing the same thing without missing.Never seen, or never will see anything that amazing ever. He then disjointed his cue put it away and left the room without ever looking at me. TRUE STORY.
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Hi Billy,

This is a great thread and this story of the 15 balls 4xs on half table leaves me in awe! Sailor of Racine, Ws. taught to run 9 ball using half table. I can also attest to Billy and Freddie teaching Efren one pocket in Chicago; witnessed some of it.
Lanny Charles
 
wincardona said:
Freddie,
I really don't want to go back and fourth with you and Grady, but for whatever it's worth i'll explain how it really was. In 1972 I was the best 9 ball player in the country,with the exception of Lassiter, Grady wouldn't of had a chance to beat me,and anyone that played back then knows it. I retired from pool 4 times ,each time i retired it was from 4 to 7 years. But I obviously made come backs ,during all that time Grady continued to play.I believe it was around 1981 that I started to play again,once again I really can't remember the exact years that I quit and then returned. keep in mind I was never a one pocket player back then I learned later in the mid to late 80's. after my first comeback I matched up with Grady 9/7 and broke even. Yes at that time he was playing excellent one pocket ,and I was still learning the game.In the early 90's 1993 or 1994 I played Grady even one pocket in Baltimore. He had just beat Bugs and asked me to play.And at that time I believed I was playing better than him so we played four out of seven for $2500 .He out ran the nuts and beat me the first set 4 to 3. Made a ball on his break,ratted in balls ramming the pack, missing balls and making another ball,it was frustrating for me, because I knew I was the better player. After he won the set he started to unscrew his cue ,I said what are you doing i'm not finished. We played another set and I won 4 to 0.Again he started to disjoint ,I asked him why he was quitting,his reply was that he had important things to do, and proceded to drive away. Strange how differently people think. If I were he, playing $2,500 a set would be pretty important to me. We played abot 3 times since then,even and I won every time. I'm not the kind of a person that brags on myself, i've always felt funny about that. The reason i'm telling this story is,i'm tired of Grady insulting,and devaluing me.And if he want's to play me some more all he has to do is show up at the Olympics in Louisville and we can settle this. And I preferr it to be on camera.
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This thread just keeps getting better and better. It's great to live in a time where we can be a part of three of the greatest players ever conversing with each other, competing, challenging, etc.
Lanny Charles
 
srs314 said:
I will take Alex vs. nearly all of the players on the current list.
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You might have noticed, Scott, I didn't make a current list but I totally concur, Little Alex, has learned a ton about the game and no one mentioned shoots any straighter that him. Fun to watch too.
 
hemicudas said:
You might have noticed, Scott, I didn't make a current list but I totally concur, Little Alex, has learned a ton about the game and no one mentioned shoots any straighter that him. Fun to watch too.
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I also notice the list is from 2007 so I wouldn't be surprised if Gabe was higher now.

Maybe Jay will tell us if he thinks Alex belongs on this list now, I know he watched Alex play a little one pocket.

He is my favorite player so I am just a little biased!
 
srs314 said:
I also notice the list is from 2007 so I wouldn't be surprised if Gabe was higher now.

Maybe Jay will tell us if he thinks Alex belongs on this list now, I know he watched Alex play a little one pocket.

He is my favorite player so I am just a little biased![/QUOTE

:groucho:

I agree with you and Bill. Alex is the real thing and he is only around 30 yrs. I watched him beat Efren last year at the Derby. I think he and Corey's game are really close.

And, he has played Efren as often as anyone. Come to think of it he has a lot of Efren-like quality in his approach to the game. Who knows! He may be the next "super star" Efren.

And yes! What a character! Thanks for reminding us.
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Efren bumped

In my view, Efren is no longer #1, and Cliff has moved down the list. I'm guessing it would be Frost, Owen, Reyes, Joyner, Chohan, Daulton, then Jones or Duell.

I don't think Alex is in the top 5-- perhaps low down in the top 10. I'm up in the air about Bustamante. He's probably no longer top 10.

I still like Billy's top 10 of the past 40 years, although I might put Jersey Red above Hopkins.

Doc
 
IMO Alex and Corey are both in the current top ten One Pocket players. Efren is a precarious #1, not quite so dominant as the last 15-20 years.

Parica should be on any all time top twenty as well. It's too hard to make just a top ten. Too many good players!

My all time top twenty (21 now) would be in a loose order:

Rags Fitzpatrick
Ronnie Allen
Efren Reyes
Clem Metz
Marvin Henderson
Bugs Rucker
Eddie Taylor
Ed Kelly
Boston Shorty
Jersey Red
Jose Parica
Allen Hopkins
Mike Sigel
Steve Cook
Steve Mizerak
Cornbread Red
Harold Worst
Grady Mathews
Nick Varner
Jim Rempe
Jimmy Fusco


Notice that the only active players included here are Efren, Grady, Hopkins, Varner and Parica. I just think the rest of these guys were better than the current crop of players at One Pocket. Today's list would include:

Efren Reyes
Gabe Owen
Tony Chohan
Scott Frost
Cliff Joyner
Corey Deuel
Alex Pagulayan
John Schmidt
Shannon Daulton
Danny Harriman
 
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wincardona said:
Leonard,
I have the utmost respect for Buddy Hall,I believe he was one of the greatest players to ever play this game. I would love to play Buddy in Dallas, not so much that I think I could beat him,but I would like to see how it would turn out. And I really don't think that i'm the favorite,but if I play my best game it could be interesting.I'm 63 years old and playing well enough in my opinion to play anyone my age ,which I will. So if anyone out there has someone my age,bring them and their ID to Dallas and we'll play. For gambling,and the love of the game.
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Id love to just sit back and watch Mr Incardona play........Where does Billy play at mainly?
 
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gulfportdoc said:
In my view, Efren is no longer #1, and Cliff has moved down the list. I'm guessing it would be Frost, Owen, Reyes, Joyner, Chohan, Daulton, then Jones or Duell.

I don't think Alex is in the top 5-- perhaps low down in the top 10. I'm up in the air about Bustamante. He's probably no longer top 10.

I still like Billy's top 10 of the past 40 years, although I might put Jersey Red above Hopkins.

Doc
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in one pocket efren is still the best. no one is even a ball near him.
 
Over the years, I've heard a lot about George Rood and how many road players were sure to steer clear of him. How strong was George's one-pocket game in his prime?
 
What about Nick Varner? I think he is one of the best all around players of back in his time.

Today, I would have to rate Gabe Owen up at the top along with Scott Frost. I'm not talking about tournament only, or match up only, I'm talking game in general. There's another sharp, sharp sword right here from Tulsa, Ok who could play anyone in the world. I would have to rate him among the top 10 at least if not the top 5 currently, and that's Brian Jones.
 
sjm said:
Over the years, I've heard a lot about George Rood and how many road players were sure to steer clear of him. How strong was George's one-pocket game in his prime?
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According to George himself, it was not his main game at any time during his prime. He really only adopted it as a favorite when he got close to 75 years old! He was a 9-Ball and straight pool player in his prime -- not that he couldn't play about anything.

You can read my interview with George here:
http://www.onepocket.org/GeorgeRoodInterview.htm
 
???????????

I've been busy today got home an read all 20 pages. My question is I knew Don watson later in life an you could tell he was very knowledgable
about onehole but had lost pocketing skills> My question in his prime what kind of player was he???????? All of the oldtimers when i was a kid said that when all of the hustlers came to the Phoenix Hotel in Lexington that Rags Fitzpatrick was best of show.............
Pinocchio
 
Pinocchio said:
I've been busy today got home an read all 20 pages. My question is I knew Don watson later in life an you could tell he was very knowledgable
about onehole but had lost pocketing skills> My question in his prime what kind of player was he???????? All of the oldtimers when i was a kid said that when all of the hustlers came to the Phoenix Hotel in Lexington that Rags Fitzpatrick was best of show.............
Pinocchio
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I've also been told by a couple of old timers that Rags Fitzpatrick was one of the two best one pocket players ever (the other being Hayden Lingo). In fact more than one old timer told me that they considered Rags to be the best all-around player ever.
 
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