Ron V aiming system video and diagrams

[SpiderWebComm]

It's crystal clear how the bet was defined and that you accepted it as defined. Stop weaseling. You wanted a bet. You accepted my bet.

pj
chgo

P.S. My cue's not worth much of anything, but if you want them in the bet, fine.

If the pivot point is the bridge, per your diagram, I can't hit a ball at 59". I'm going to stay within the parameters of your diagram, NOT move my bridge, and hit the ball - heck, maybe make it! Just because the cue turns in my bridge doesn't make it the pivot point. I don't want you to say "the cue turned in your bridge hand - so the bridge is the pivot point" and talk your way out of the bet. If the bridge is the true pivot point, and we'll demo this, I can't POSSIBLY HIT the ball.

This started from your diagram - which is wrong - saying Ron's system can't hit a ball outside of twenty-something inches, let alone make it. You stated a HIP PIVOT is THE SAME as pivoting your back hand--- thus, my video was a hoax and I'm making an adjustment that can't be seen.... which is horsesh1t.

So, your bet is that any pivot (hip/back hand) from the bridge will miss the ball because they're the same (or have to be the same). My bet is that they're not, which is why I made the video. My bridge won't move-- we'll chalk it up and you can have people pin my fingers down. When I hip-pivot, I'll hit/make the ball. When I use BHE, pivoting at the bridge, I'll miss the ball. According to your diagram, I miss the ball either way. That's your bet.

That's the bet. Don't word-smith me. This post is clear as day. We ARE meeting up to resolve this. Not done online. There WILL be witnesses so I not only get paid, I'm walking out with the money safely. If your cue is junk, it's my cue/$1000 for your $1800 (giving 1/2 value for my cue, which my lambros is in perfect condition). You stated up to $5k, so that shouldn't be a prob.

Am I not clear in this post? Is this NOT the bet? Am I living in bizzarro world where this wasn't what was being discussed since yesterday?

The bet has been made, I'm waiting on you to confirm this e-mail and setup a meeting day/time/place to get this done. I can't wait.

 

[Cuemaster98]

Duc,
I think PJ initially pointed out, that a fixed bridge point, means a fixed pivot point, and hence pivoting that way can only produce one line of shot which results in only a small range of potential successful shots.

Later, as I interpret this thread, Dave (Spidey) made a claim about utilising a different pivot though with a fixed bridge, not using the bridge as a pivot point. And that's where point of difference over which a challenge grew.

Colin

Fixed Bridge Hand or Fixed Bridge Point is a same (Open or closed bridge point). Hand Doesn't move...so bridge point does move. However, Pivot Point does move on the Fixed Bridge Point. Correct me if I'm wrong. Again..just wrong assumption on PJ part.

Regards,
Duc.

 

[Cuemaster98]

bridge that "does not move" in the slightest, there would geometrically be only 1 pivot point, that through which the center of the shaft moves through the bridge when stroked.

I think that was obvious that in reality the hand is not going to not move "completely" or slightest...he said fixed bridge hand. The point being argued that is clear cut is the pivot point...in geometry it's exact but not in reality....also PJ try to prove that BH movement and Body Movement has the exact same pivot point...which is already incorrect. He made this assumption using geometry but didn't account for reality. So he lose the bet...as Dave meet all of the requirements in the bet defined in post #133.

Regards,
Duc.

I think much of this thread has been about the semantics and purist definition of "pivot point" and "bridge hand doesn't move".

I think the cue was assumed to be, and referred to as, the "line" in one post, and that only one line to the target on a cue ball through the bridge and pivot point is possible. Any change in the pivot point will result in a change in the target at a given distance if the cue is stroked through a rigid bridge fixed at a specific position on the table,. while another poster states that there are many "pivot points" through the bridge hand, even if the hand does not move.

However, if you were to look at the cue from above through a bridge that "does not move" in the slightest, there would geometrically be only 1 pivot point, that through which the center of the shaft moves through the bridge when stroked. The only way to change the pivot point in this case is to move the bridge forward or back, or left or right. In my statement above, the assumption has to be made that a bridged hand "does not move" at all, and would therefore be no different than a fixed mechanical bridge.

I could then, in the case of Dave defending himself based upon the lack of rigidity of the hand due to ligaments, muscle, skin, argue that his hand actually does move, as the skin, etc. stretches and flexes as the cue is stroked through it. This flexibility is what allows him to state correctly that the pivot point is changed, ever so slightly, and that PJ is incorrect.

If you then want to argue semantics, Dave could be determined incorrect in his assumption that his hand does not move, because it actually does. The skin, muscles, tendons, ligaments, etc. have to be included in the definition of "hand", and any change would result in him being incorrect. Again we are talking semantics. The pivot point, as noted by Colin earlier, and in my opinion, would not shift more than about .25cm (the amount of stretch, flex, whatever you want to call it of the skin, muscles, etc.) Both, if argued separately can be determined to lose this bet based upon this IMHO.

 

[shankster8]

Spidey, answer this please.

Ron, I am surprised! Have you read PJ's post #235? Those are direct quotes of statements made by Dave. Were his statements accurate? Yes or NO????

Well Spidey, I'm waiting for Ron to inform us if your statements set forth in PJ's post # 235 were accurate. Why don't you answer the same question. Were those statements accurate (even meaningful?), or did you not comprehend the meaning of the term "pivot point"? I believe the rediculousness of those statements show who is changing their story now. You obviously didn't have a clue what you were betting on since you didn't even understand the meaning of the terms you were using.

 

[dr_dave]

please stop

I wish you and Patrick would stop all of this bet stuff. Your "fight" clearly has more to do with weird semantics rather than useful information.

If the pivot point is the bridge, per your diagram, I can't hit a ball at 59". I'm going to stay within the parameters of your diagram, NOT move my bridge, and hit the ball - heck, maybe make it! Just because the cue turns in my bridge doesn't make it the pivot point. I don't want you to say "the cue turned in your bridge hand - so the bridge is the pivot point" and talk your way out of the bet. If the bridge is the true pivot point, and we'll demo this, I can't POSSIBLY HIT the ball.

This started from your diagram - which is wrong - saying Ron's system can't hit a ball outside of twenty-something inches, let alone make it. You stated a HIP PIVOT is THE SAME as pivoting your back hand--- thus, my video was a hoax and I'm making an adjustment that can't be seen.... which is horsesh1t.

So, your bet is that any pivot (hip/back hand) from the bridge will miss the ball because they're the same (or have to be the same). My bet is that they're not, which is why I made the video. My bridge won't move-- we'll chalk it up and you can have people pin my fingers down. When I hip-pivot, I'll hit/make the ball. When I use BHE, pivoting at the bridge, I'll miss the ball. According to your diagram, I miss the ball either way. That's your bet.

That's the bet. Don't word-smith me. This post is clear as day. We ARE meeting up to resolve this. Not done online. There WILL be witnesses so I not only get paid, I'm walking out with the money safely. If your cue is junk, it's my cue/$1000 for your $1800 (giving 1/2 value for my cue, which my lambros is in perfect condition). You stated up to $5k, so that shouldn't be a prob.

Am I not clear in this post? Is this NOT the bet? Am I living in bizzarro world where this wasn't what was being discussed since yesterday?

The bet has been made, I'm waiting on you to confirm this e-mail and setup a meeting day/time/place to get this done. I can't wait.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Exactly, PJ, there is only one conclusion, and that is that Dave did not understand the meaning of the term "pivot point." He must admit that in the face of all the evidence you've presented in this post. To deny it will prove him insincere, at a minimum, and probably label him as a welcher. JMHO

I know exactly what a pivot point is. If the cue rotates around the bridge point (as if it's the center of a circle, on an axis --- I mentioned this earlier in the thread), the CB will miss the OB every time.

SOOOOOOO Shankster, if my bridge position DOESNT MOVE AT ALL, and the OB is hit or is pocketed, the pivot point was changed with the same bridge position --- the hip pivot provided a different solution than the BHE pivot from the bridge pivot point--- and that is the bet.

Man, PJ WONT EVEN MEET UP IN PERSON--- ARE YOU DENSE? WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?????????? Me back out? HOLY CRAP I'M THE ONE WHO'S FIGHTING TO MEET UP!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[shinigami]

This thread has kept me entertained at work the whole day today....Cheers to Spider and PJ both!

In all seriousness, I'm reading both sides and both seem to sound somewhat correct?

Call me an idiot but I am really confused! Time to go see RonV and see this sh!t for myself~

 

[JoeyInCali]

....................

 

[SJDinPHX]

name one? go to stan shuffets web site you will find more than one. here is a quote from the site by stevie moore..

"I learned the PRO ONE aiming system from Stan Shuffett about 1 year ago. I successfully used PRO ONE in the 2008 Derby City Classic 9-Ball division getting a top 10 finish. I recently used the system with great results at 2 Seminole Florida Pro Tour events. . "

Stevie Moore

the web address is justcueit.com

It's quite possible that Steve Moore is not even aware that when he pulls the trigger, it is still 99% instinct. If he touts, or subscribes to an aiming "system" I still say he might be Stan Shuffert's brother-in-law.
More names please. I know I'm the only one on this thread who has really made a point. Bottom line, it's all BS.

Dick

 

[shankster8]

I wish you and Patrick would stop all of this bet stuff. Your "fight" clearly has more to do with weird semantics rather than useful information.

I agree, but one of them (Spidey) didn't even know what pivot point meant - that is where alot of the confusion came from. PJ's terms also required the bridge and all its components to remain still, and the cue to essentially do the same. Abiding that constraint, how ccould Spidey then think he could pivot the cue around some rearward portion of the cue. A pivot requires both ends of the cue to move simultaneously - otherwise it is not a pivot - but, again, the front is constrained at the bridge.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

So, your bet is blah blah blah...

That's the bet. Don't word-smith me.

Don't word-smith you? LOL.

Everybody here already knows what the bet is without you trying to re-word it over and over again, Dave. It hasn't changed by one word since I spelled it out in post #133 and you accepted it, as I wrote it, in post #136.

It's obvious that you're not going to own up to this, Dave. Argue with somebody else about it.

pj
chgo

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Well Spidey, I'm waiting for Ron to inform us if your statements set forth in PJ's post # 235 were accurate. Why don't you answer the same question. Were those statements accurate (even meaningful?), or did you not comprehend the meaning of the term "pivot point"? I believe the rediculousness of those statements show who is changing their story now. You obviously didn't have a clue what you were betting on since you didn't even understand the meaning of the terms you were using.

If the cue rotates on an axis from where the V is on your bridge, you miss the ball. Of course it's accurate--- THAT'S WHY I WANNA MEET AND BAN THIS GUY. Read this thread very carefully from the very beginning - I have not said different things. I'm not welching at all.

Post 241 says it all. The intent of both PJ and myself. His diagram is wrong, I called him on it-- he said my video was a hoax and stood by his diagram. I got tired of the "matter of fact" smart-talk. I called him out and asked him to bet something (friendly I might add). PJ strutted around like a peacock, responding with a $5000 bet (which isn't friendly for anyone). I called it for $1000 and the value of my cue. Now, as I see it, people are acting like they don't know what the bet is and nobody speka-no-eeeenglish.

Anything other than what 241 says and what I'm saying here is twisted and word-smithing.

I have his G in my pocket and I'm ready to meet. PJ, responded by SAYING WE'RE NOT MEETING!! Are you kidding me?

The bet is simple no matter how anyone twists it: setup a 59" shot, 10" bridge, not move the bridge at all, if I hit/make the ball I win.... pure and simple. If anyone reading this thread doesn't think that's the bet you're a moron.

YOU GOT ACTION ON POST 133!!!! MY CUE WILL ROTATE AROUND MY BRIDGE, IT'S NOT THE PIVOT POINT--- IF IT WERE, PER YOUR DIAGRAM, I MISS THE BALL. DO YOU NOT AGREE???????

 

[SJDinPHX]

This thread has kept me entertained at work the whole day today....Cheers to Spider and PJ both!

In all seriousness, I'm reading both sides and both seem to sound somewhat correct?

Call me an idiot but I am really confused! Time to go see RonV and see this sh!t for myself~

You're confused ??? Imagine what must go through a good player's mind when he's over a shot for all the marbles. Einstein could not compute all the variables, much less execute them.

Dick

 

[Patrick Johnson]

PJ, All bets are off with Dave i`am taking all of the action up to $10.000...

Now again I`ll say it put your money where your mouth is or give up the battle...You have lost all the battles and you lost the war if you don`t take the BET...

RonV

Chill, brother. You or your system are not being attacked or ctiticized.

pj
chgo

 

[shankster8]

Spidey, please answer

If the cue rotates on an axis from where the V is on your bridge, you miss the ball. Of course it's accurate--- THAT'S WHY I WANNA MEET AND BAN THIS GUY. Read this thread very carefully from the very beginning - I have not said different things. I'm not welching at all.

Post 241 says it all. The intent of both PJ and myself. His diagram is wrong, I called him on it-- he said my video was a hoax and stood by his diagram. I got tired of the "matter of fact" smart-talk. I called him out and asked him to bet something (friendly I might add). PJ strutted around like a peacock, responding with a $5000 bet (which isn't friendly for anyone). I called it for $1000 and the value of my cue. Now, as I see it, people are acting like they don't know what the bet is and nobody speka-no-eeeenglish.

Anything other than what 241 says and what I'm saying here is twisted and word-smithing.

I have his G in my pocket and I'm ready to meet. PJ, responded by SAYING WE'RE NOT MEETING!! Are you kidding me?

The bet is simple no matter how anyone twists it: setup a 59" shot, 10" bridge, not move the bridge at all, if I hit/make the ball I win.... pure and simple. If anyone reading this thread doesn't think that's the bet you're a moron.

YOU GOT ACTION ON POST 133!!!! MY CUE WILL ROTATE AROUND MY BRIDGE, IT'S NOT THE PIVOT POINT--- IF IT WERE, PER YOUR DIAGRAM, I MISS THE BALL. DO YOU NOT AGREE???????

PJ quoted you numerous times in post # 235. I asked you if those statements were accurate, or even meaningful. They seem rediculous to me and indicate that you didn't have a clue what "pivot point" meant. YES or NO?????????? A little honesty could nip this whole thing is the bud, right now!!!!

 

[Patrick Johnson]

MY CUE WILL ROTATE AROUND MY BRIDGE, IT'S NOT THE PIVOT POINT

What your cue rotates around is the pivot point. That's what "pivot point" means.

pj
chgo

 

[SpiderWebComm]

What your cue rotates around is the pivot point. That's what "pivot point" means.

pj
chgo

Let me reword that, the cue is moving through my bridge, with the bridge not being the axis....which of course, is your dispute and the heart of the bet. If it WERE the axis - the CB goes into no-man's-land, missing by a full ball. Am I mis-reading your little diagram?

 

[stan shuffett]

SJDinPHX(Dick)

Stevie is of no relation to me.

The games of billiards, snooker and pocket billiards are full of systems, systems that go back to before your birth. If you think that pro players in these discipines do not and have not availed themselves to systematic approaches then you are absolutely wrong.
There are systems for aiming, speed and spin.....kicking and banking.

Yes, Yes and Yes there is FEEL associated with all of these systems. Who says there isn't?

Stan Shuffett

It's quite possible that Steve Moore is not even aware that when he pulls the trigger, it is still 99% instinct. If he touts, or subscribes to an aiming "system" I still say he might be Stan Shuffert's brother-in-law.
More names please. I know I'm the only one on this thread who has really made a point. Bottom line, it's all BS.

Dick

 

[eezbank]

It's quite possible that Steve Moore is not even aware that when he pulls the trigger, it is still 99% instinct. If he touts, or subscribes to an aiming "system" I still say he might be Stan Shuffert's brother-in-law.
More names please. I know I'm the only one on this thread who has really made a point. Bottom line, it's all BS.

Dick

there were more names on his website. looks like you've made your mind up already. that's fine with me. use what works for you.

 

[JoeyInCali]

What your cue rotates around is the pivot point. That's what "pivot point" means.

pj
chgo

SEMANTICS!

Where the cue pivots is what you define Pivot Point.

Dave, defines Pivot Point as where you pivot FROM.

????