Safety cueball speed and direction

3

3RAILKICK

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
how do you see and calculate and execute a safety using the cb? or do you just see it?

Particulary, like to roll two rails behind a little wall.

Some one showed me a billiard concept that is almost reliable.

Sorry-I didn't search for the topic.

I was just thinking about safeties after reading some stuff on Oscar Dominguez. He sees something. He'll lock you up.
 
I can't offer much help because I just tend to "see" the shot. But I can tell you it has helped me to really think about the fact that you are trying to control two balls and looking at the situation to determine if one of the two is the more critical to control. Often times one is more important than the other. Then I plan and focus more on controlling that one whether it's getting the OB to a certain spot or locking up whitey.
 
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As often as will allow, I start to visualize what a natural follow half ball hit would do and adjust with speed, english, and/or draw (in that order of importance) from that image. This usually yields the best results in terms of speed control and predictability.
 
Safety play is about cue ball control. And if you are talking freezing them on another ball, speed is paramount.
Look at it like any other shot, but ask yourself some questions. Is there a cluster that you can put them behind? Is it an easy position play? How accurate does the speed have to be? Can your cue ball come into the line of the cluster or is it crossing the line.
Sometimes its easier to see than others, but some key concepts to keep in mind are leaving the object ball near other balls if possible, and try to protect the easy kicks.
Some opponents you might be ok leaving a long straight in, especially if position requires an angle. You might leave them a bank if your opponent doesnt bank well. You might think about putting the balls on the opposite end rails.
Lots of safety plays possible. Sometimes it depends on the skill level of your opponent. I would leave a D player a long straight in. An A player and above, Im gonna try and freeze his ass on something with no realistic kicks.
Chuck
 
Just to keep it real simple, one way to think about it like this....

If the hit on the object ball is roughly a 1/2 ball hit , both the object ball and the CB will roll roughly the same distance after the hit. As you go closer to a full ball hit ,the object ball will roll proportionally farther than the CB after the hit and as the hit gets less than a 1/2 ball hit, the CB roll roll proportionally father than the OB ball. Start learn the 1/2 ball hit and go from there.

Thats a super general guideline to get started.
 
In addition to the %ball hit items shsared by RR...similay to playing position, you want an OB to be approaching the blockers on the blocking line, giving the best chance fo blockers to serve your need.
 
Tangent line!

3RAILKICK said:
how do you see and calculate and execute a safety using the cb? or do you just see it?

Particulary, like to roll two rails behind a little wall.

Some one showed me a billiard concept that is almost reliable.

Sorry-I didn't search for the topic.

I was just thinking about safeties after reading some stuff on Oscar Dominguez. He sees something. He'll lock you up.
Click to expand...

Study up on your tangent line. Speed is critical. Most people run out of their target areas, too fast. A lot of safeties are incredibly easy once you have the mindset to play safe. Many people don't know when to stop the run out game. They make every ball they can and then are stuck with having to play a difficult safety with only a few balls left. More balls left on table means more safety options. Like the guy who runs all the way to the money ball and misses. He is in one ball hell. You are in hook city! That would be eight ball of course. Nine ball safeties are a whole different can of worms. More critical situations in nine ball. Much less traffic and opportunities. Run out pool is the pure way to play. No answer for run out pool. I used to be that guy and now I'm old so I torture people. A defensive player can always fall into a defense mode when not playing well. A runout guy I guess just keeps trying to runout.
 
Understanding the different ways the CB can be made to come off a OB or rail is very important.

Whenever I find a weakness, I design some practice routines to help strength my weakness.

Interesting that lately, I have been concentrating on multi rail kicks because of my weak safety replies.

My practice routine basically is having a fair amount of ball on the table and then play hide and seek.

First I pick some ball. My goal is to place the CB somewhere such that I can not hit the ball I picked. The hit has to be a legal hit.

Then I go to where I put the CB and see if I can hit the ball I picked using a different route.

Second, I pick some ball. My goal is to go one or more rails to hit that ball.

I've been using the parallel method for 2 rail banks/kicks.

The bottom line is that practicing safety play is the only way to know what you can and can not do. Where I play, I never see any one practicing safeties.

After playing some 3 cushion players in 8 ball, my eyes were open to how weak some of my safeties were. Going 3 or more rails for them was no problem.

Once I realized this and took this into account in my safety play, I actually started getting BIH from them where before they can hit their ball or even make it.

Every safety that has caused me to lose a game, the next day, I was at the table practicing that safety until I figured out a way to hit my ball.

You gotta practice safeties, cause if you don't, you'll never will just know where to put the CB to cause your opponent fits. Trying to learn to do so in game situation will be frustrating.
 
RRfireblade said:
Just to keep it real simple, one way to think about it like this....

If the hit on the object ball is roughly a 1/2 ball hit , both the object ball and the CB will roll roughly the same distance after the hit. As you go closer to a full ball hit ,the object ball will roll proportionally farther than the CB after the hit and as the hit gets less than a 1/2 ball hit, the CB roll roll proportionally father than the OB ball. Start learn the 1/2 ball hit and go from there.

Thats a super general guideline to get started.
Click to expand...

That is very good advice.

Safety's are a weaker part of my game that I am working very hard at improving. One way that I improve is rack up 9nine ball, break and then look for the safety and shot it over and over until you got it. Then re-rack and do it all over again. Boring but effective.
I haven't found any system, just practice.
 
look thru

Thanks guys.

I have had a little luck lately in concentrating only on the cb path to hide behind blockers-hopefully the ob takes care of itself.

A buddy showed me this- look at the direct straight shot line from the cb to ob. Decide where you want the cb to travel after the collision with the ob. See that line from the ob starting point(farside of the ob-as a 'contact point' ) , aim center cb at that far side 'exit point' with medium stroke/rolling cb-gets it close.

Is this a 'caroms' concept"?? Works decent with right ball speed. Not so much when hit too hard. Best for short distances, roll up on ball that is close.

I havent explained this very well.

Anyone do something similar to try to predict the cb path after collision with ob?

Just curious.

Thanks again
 
3RAILKICK said:
Thanks guys.

I have had a little luck lately in concentrating only on the cb path to hide behind blockers-hopefully the ob takes care of itself.

A buddy showed me this- look at the direct straight shot line from the cb to ob. Decide where you want the cb to travel after the collision with the ob. See that line from the ob starting point(farside of the ob-as a 'contact point' ) , aim center cb at that far side 'exit point' with medium stroke/rolling cb-gets it close.

Is this a 'caroms' concept"?? Works decent with right ball speed. Not so much when hit too hard. Best for short distances, roll up on ball that is close.

I havent explained this very well.

Anyone do something similar to try to predict the cb path after collision with ob?

Just curious.

Thanks again
Click to expand...

Well, as far as where the CB will go and where you need to contact the OB to make it take a certain line, that is pretty much tangent line physics like the 90 degree rule for stun shots and 30 degree rule for a rolling CB. Dr. Dave has a ton of useful info both in the video clips and instructional articles. Here's a couple:

90 degree rule

30 degree rule

But there's a lot more: http://billiards.colostate.edu/
 
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Does one reverse engineer the safety?

Use the 90 degree rule to send the CB to where it needs to be while sending the OB to where it needs to be using the relative travel of the OB based on the angle of the 90 degree rule?
 
Neil said:
You can do that also for where you really don't want to use follow, but a stun shot. The 90 degree rule is only going to work for a stun shot.
Click to expand...

I concur. I like stop or stun when I can get the CB behind another ball.
 
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3RAILKICK said:
Thanks guys.

I have had a little luck lately in concentrating only on the cb path to hide behind blockers-hopefully the ob takes care of itself.

A buddy showed me this- look at the direct straight shot line from the cb to ob. Decide where you want the cb to travel after the collision with the ob. See that line from the ob starting point(farside of the ob-as a 'contact point' ) , aim center cb at that far side 'exit point' with medium stroke/rolling cb-gets it close.

Is this a 'caroms' concept"?? Works decent with right ball speed. Not so much when hit too hard. Best for short distances, roll up on ball that is close.

I havent explained this very well.

Anyone do something similar to try to predict the cb path after collision with ob?

Just curious.

Thanks again
Click to expand...

This is the method I use...
 
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