Scrimshawing Delight

Marshal, why do you have to try to knock down other cue makers with nearly every thread you start? You pretty much accused Bill Schick of using a machine to do the Scrimshaw on his cues and you accuse the other guy (I don't know who he is) of contracting out his work.

If you want to show off your Scrimshaw, why don't you just start a thread called "Look at some Scrimshaw I've been working on" instead of taking shots at others?
 
Tony Zinzola said:
Marshal, why do you have to try to knock down other cue makers with nearly every thread you start? You pretty much accused Bill Schick of using a machine to do the Scrimshaw on his cues and you accuse the other guy (I don't know who he is) of contracting out his work.

If you want to show off your Scrimshaw, why don't you just start a thread called "Look at some Scrimshaw I've been working on" instead of taking shots at others?
Click to expand...

Tony,

As far as I know I did not I repeat NOT knock Bill Schick down I was commenting on this particular quote from Worminator.......

To my knowledge, scrimshaw is never done by a machine. The work done by CNC or Pantogragh is referred to as engraving. Bill Schick does both scrimshaw and engraving in his cues. Ron Haley does some incredible engraving work. ......

know you can read it again. it's on page one to make sure that I copied and pasted correctly.

As a matter of fact, i believe stating a fact such as , it was done by a machine and or i think it was contracted out, is not knocking someone down. I mean the thread was to show cues that cuemakers themselves did. Is this not true?
And another thing people are posting or putting a link to cues that are contracted out to someone or a machine did the work.I commented on it cause I wanted to see cues that were scrimshawed by thier makers.

So my question is, why are you knocking me down when clearly you are misinterpreting the thread?

Here's some copy and pasted direct qoutes from me that you can take to the bank that shows the intention of the thread....

I know I've seen cues that were scrimshawed on but were mainly out sourced to another individual to do the work. so that's not what I am talking about. Im talking about the cuemaker themselves doing the work without the aid of machines.
Located page 1

Are there allot of people who scimshaw on cues...
page 1

what's your favorite style of scrimshawing (technique)?
page 1

Also if the cuemaker does the scrimshawing does it affect the price for the better vs if it was sourced out to someone. what's your feeling on this?
Located also on page 1

I know I never said it was a bad thing to out source this work...
I never said I think it was bad that people collaborated on a cue...
word for word on everything I said, I never knocked anyone one down...
I wanted to see cues done by the cuemakers themselves with out aid of machines... where did I knock someone down? please copy and paste and state the source where I did.
If your ration of thinking is that by me stating the facts is knocking someone down then so be it, but as far as I am concerned the comments I stated coincide with the topic of the thread.

Hand done without aid of machines , only needles and other materials that scratch.
No collaborations.
No Machines.

Then I wanted to show my Scrimshawing.

You know Tony you are an interesting individual..... I know you would never like me or my ideas I have. but it's ok... because every time we do this dance where you come in and stir my up with your very words I some how find myself wanting to meet you and see how long we could stand to be in the same room.

And believe this or not I would actually like to visit you and see if we could actually stand each other. Then if we did I wouldn't even mind arguing every second we spend talking. You know why because I respect the fact you question my actions, methods, and believes when it comes to cue Smithing.

But I do hope there will come a time where you might respect me for my train of thought especially when I can quote myself time and time again and prove that you are wrong about me and what you understand my words to be.
But you know the saying respect has to be earned right.
I know I am hated by allot ... But if people can learn from a new perspective, a new idea, and a new way of thinking....
I believe they could be better at what they want to do.

I do not believe I am walking the same path as you...
you do lots of traditional stuff Tony,
I don't
I walk the path of the less traveled road.
I might get lost and stumble but at least I traveled it and I know the way back to the other.

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost

This is my way......
You are not my competition......
nor am I yours...
you walk one way I walk the other......

Id like to talk to you one day if your up for a conversation?
you can PM me with a number to call and time.
My numbers there on my avatar in case you want to call...
 
Marshal -

You asked for examples of work done by the cue maker. Jamie posted some excellent examples and your only response was "there is a machine that does help with stipple work....some are not done completely by hand now a days."

That statement would cause pretty much anybody reading the thread to think that you don't believe he did it by hand. Had you not quoted Jamie's post in your response, that may not have been the case.

I have never said I don't like you Marshal. I've tried to help you. You start a lot of threads acting like you know all the answers. When asked for pictures, you fail to produce. You have started a lot of threads lately about an "idea" you have that you will make in the next few weeks. Instead of talking about it, just do it. I keep telling you to not worry so much about what others are doing or saying. Make your cues, post your pictures and let them do the talking.

I don't consider you my competition. I don't consider anybody my competition. If somebody wants to buy a cue from me, they will call me. If they want to buy a cue from somebody else, they will call them. I honestly don't care who they order a cue from. If a customer calls me or emails me about a cue, I respond once. If I don't hear from them again, that's the end of it. I have never once chased after a customer and tried to convince them as to why they should buy a cue from me.
 
Tony Zinzola said:
Marshal -

You asked for examples of work done by the cue maker. Jamie posted some excellent examples and your only response was "there is a machine that does help with stipple work....some are not done completely by hand now a days."

That statement would cause pretty much anybody reading the thread to think that you don't believe he did it by hand. Had you not quoted Jamie's post in your response, that may not have been the case.

I have never said I don't like you Marshal. I've tried to help you. You start a lot of threads acting like you know all the answers. When asked for pictures, you fail to produce. You have started a lot of threads lately about an "idea" you have that you will make in the next few weeks. Instead of talking about it, just do it. I keep telling you to not worry so much about what others are doing or saying. Make your cues, post your pictures and let them do the talking.

I don't consider you my competition. I don't consider anybody my competition. If somebody wants to buy a cue from me, they will call me. If they want to buy a cue from somebody else, they will call them. I honestly don't care who they order a cue from. If a customer calls me or emails me about a cue, I respond once. If I don't hear from them again, that's the end of it. I have never once chased after a customer and tried to convince them as to why they should buy a cue from me.
Click to expand...

I failed to produce once....
I got sick and i am still sick....
Matter of fact Ive been posting in the hospital ...when Im not posting Im at home for a little and trying to spend time with my family..
BUT once I didnt produce the pics.....
unless there are other times where I should have?
But I doubt it....
if there is and you can show me where I stated I would then I'll correct the problem and post.... The JPS cant be shown cause I can't paint them yet.

Here are the links to all my threads and claims and ideas that I started...
with the exception of the JP thread here...
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=198397
I would say I never claimed to show anything that I didn't...

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=205741
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=205736
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=205733
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=205743
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=205749
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=195060
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=198897
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=198913
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=198450
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=197298
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=197299
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=195028
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=195987
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=195027
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=191792
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=194355
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=191128

you see when you say this..

You start a lot of threads acting like you know all the answers. When asked for pictures, you fail to produce. You have started a lot of threads lately about an "idea" you have that you will make in the next few weeks. Instead of talking about it, just do it.

I kinda take it as
1. i have a different idea, you bash cuase you think I Im trying to knock people down. when in fact I am not. I was asking what the thoughts are on a idea I had and I think I can do it....

You start a lot of threads acting like you know all the answers

2. I got sick, still sick if you want to hold me against it .....then what can I do when I am still recovering....Kill myself. so that way I can produce a picture. This would be pertaining to the JP thread....

When asked for pictures, you fail to produce.

3. I cann't do things in the next few weeks when I get better? God willing.
And what's wrong talking about an "idea" do you find my ideas hurtful... ?
or am I thinkng to much for your taste?

You have started a lot of threads lately about an "idea" you have that you will make in the next few weeks.

4. I cann't do it If I'm still sick. and whats wrong talking about it?
who is it hurting? really who? I have an idea and since I cann't work on it why cann't I talk about to see if someone has input to maybe improve on my idea and or make me see the light of day that the idea is stupid.
why is it bothering you that I talk about my ideas?

Instead of talking about it, just do it.

anyways... I couldn't produce once and I still can't. however, I assure you, those who were interested and were understanding, have!

It seems like to me, you consider me as someone with the most vile and detestable manure, that man could imagine, oozing out of every orifice of my body.
(Wow I'm going to have to qoute that one one day....
that's a harsh thing to say, when my intent was to say ,
you think I am full of $h!t.....) you got to admit that's pretty funny.

Look, the way I see you will probably not understand me ...
I speak to many languages and my English not so good..
maybe I don't understand how to take written words, whether or not they have any type of emotion, such as sarcasm and or if someone is joking around. So maybe the faults all mine. Because I'm a stupid half breed who can't master the dynamics of a language that's considered to be the easiest on earth to learn.
Now, I don't know if i was conveying a little sarcasm there....or a little of sarcasm and kinda joking around.
But I was saying that with a question mark hanging over my head while scratching it. no sarcasm there. So I hope you don't take it the wrong way.

.......I gotta stop.... serious this is not good for me.
I will take your advise into consideration....
About just saying look at my work that I done.

I've been making cues way to long, that I let me emotions get so F-upped like my cues are made to look sometimes. I guess the cues i make are taking over my thought process. Been making cues since High School I think as a junior....didn't start selling till 2000. WOW a long butt time... I can't say a$$.

anyways take it easy maybe I can get some medicine to calm me down....Lord knows I need to.

it's to L's by the way...
Marshall Piercy.

No hard feelings?
 
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Marshall -

Back in July Mike Webb had a thread regarding veneers. You posted the following:

to me mitered is to easy...well the way I do it.... I don't know how others do it..
stacked takes more time.... so price wise it should be cheaper .....to me, going mitered. stacked takes more time veneer per veneer.... piece by piece making sure everything is put on flushed up against everything .....'

mitered ...well you glue all the colors and then cut the angle put together and install, for me on the point then on the forearm.

stacked.... one piece wait till glue is done then piece next wait till glue is done then so on and so on....but that's me.. you have to make sure that everything is flush with everything..... then install point....

like I said that's how I do things...i dont know how anyone else does them.

Personally...I do not like mitered I'd rather recut a piece of wood till I get the thickness I want, then dye then install point .....and boom no lines what so ever....... so unless I recut I stack no mitering here...I could if customers want it.


hit wise, I think if its recut points for veneers.... could affect it, cause I work with natural color woods.... I dye them ...sometimes not all the time....so each wood produces something else....
ex...red-rose wood , black -ebony, brown-lace wood, green-sumac
put together produces someting different.
but then putting a bunch of pear or poplar colored veneers also changes hit.... so to my opinion yes it changes hits.
Click to expand...

Then, a few posts later, you said this:

my comment wasn't about the stack or mitered I am talking about the recut wood for veneers so no line... can show a pic if needed
Click to expand...

I posted that if was so easy, I would like to see close up pictures of your miters. I also asked for pictures of wood you cut and died yourself. I never saw a picture.

This thread was a while before you got sick.

I only participated in the JP thread because you were stating how easy they are to make and that people charge too much for them. I don't agree with that at all. They are a lot of work and I don't know any cue makers who enjoy making them.

AS for hard feelings, I have none. I was trying to help you out. You don't need to come on so strong. When you do, people tend to not believe what you have to say.

Starting now though, I won't bother you any more. You do things your way and I'll do things my way.
 
I don't think you pmed me about that but for you as soon as I get home ther will be one up of the stacked recut veneers. I will even dye some wood for you to see that I do dye them myself. But I don't remember anyone asking me in public to see my veneer installation method since your the first one I'll do it for you. As far as you ping me on it..... I'm at a blank. I do print every pm out so I can go over them for you.

As promised this problem will be rectified.
When you tell me " threads I started" I wasn't thinking posts I made. That's me again not understanding.
 
Just to be clear though, I didn't PM you, so you didn't miss you. I posted in the same thread. Maybe you didn't see it.

Also, I know English is not your first language. You have posted that many times. I give you more leway when reading one of your posts than I would to somebody from here. I don't have a problem understanding your posts. My wife's native language is Japanese and I don't have a problem understanding her (other than the fact that she's a woman).
 
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Tony Zinzola said:
Just to be clear though, I didn't PM you, so you didn't miss you. I posted in the same thread. Maybe you didn't see it.

Also, I know English is not your first language. You have posted that many times. I give you more leway when reading one of your posts than I would to somebody from here. I don't have a problem understanding your posts. My wife's native language is Japanese and I don't have a problem understanding her (other than the fact that she's a woman).
Click to expand...

The thread was something I didn't subscribe to. I didn't know how to use Azb at the time. So it was something I missed. I have everything set up now to automatic subscription so that was my problem. I had to constantly do a search thread back then and remember the member. And I didn't know about the whole statistic then either but now I do try to keep up with what I say.

The comment about your wife that's hilarious. How old are you by the way?
 
Piercyexclusive said:
So I was sitting around the hospital doing my weekly dialysis and I started to think about scrimshawing and was wondering,

Are there allot of people who scimshaw on cues...

I am not talking about computers doing the work, I am talking about an actual person doing the work? you know by hand with a needle and such.

now Ive done some in the past but would like to know if anyone knows a cuemaker that actually does it by hand and doesn't pass the work to anyone else?

Also if the cuemaker does the scrimshawing does it affect the price for the better vs if it was sourced out to someone. what's your feeling on this?

what's your favorite style of scrimshawing (technique)?

I know I've seen cues that were scrimshawed on but were mainly out sourced to another individual to do the work. so that's not what I am talking about. Im talking about the cuemaker themselves doing the work without the aid of machines.

if you have, could you put pictures on here of some?
I would love to see some hand made scrimshaws from cuemakers themselves. I love scrimshawing and would like to see some from the masters of cuemaking. remember just pics of those who do it by hand.
Click to expand...



Bill Schick does some the best in the Business take some time and check out Bills work.
 
manwon said:
Bill Schick does some the best in the Business take some time and check out Bills work.
Click to expand...

Thanks I just recently found some pics and they look great. If you had the time could you post some I am no that proficient with this iPhone yet I would like people to see the work that people can do without the machines. That's all
 
Email me the pics to tony@zinzola.com and I will post them for you.

You can call me during the week between 7am and 5pm. After that, I pick up the kids and don't have time to talk. I don't have time anyway, but can spare a few minutes. My phone number is on my website.
 
I personally can't get into scrimshaw. Some of it is art, but most I have seen is just illustration, that is, just a picture of something and more of a craft than art. To me, it doesn't work well with cues. jmo.
:p
 
I buy cues with scrimshaw and I always have SANDRA BRADY do the work

I think it ads to the cue,I would rather have her do it right than take a shot with someone who isn't as good

I recomend her work to anyone wanting a nice job

Some cuemakers may be as good,I don't know. I do have a few projects scheduled with her soon,I have never been unhappy

dean
 
Piercyexclusive said:
He got nice cues. I think he contracts his out for the work almost positive.
Click to expand...

Piercy:
"Almost positive"? Really?

I have no earthly idea why you would take a shot at me. I do all of my own scrimshaw, I do not use a tattoo needle, but one small dot at a time. My first work looked like your lone wolf design and that first work was kept by me and has not ever been shown. It was a beginning and not done well compared to what I learned weeks and months later.

You taking that shot, and it most certainly was a shot at me, without EVER having asked me or sent me a single e-mail asking me about my scrimshaw work, although you have spent much time on my site, is like the shot that TATE took when he thought I may have forged someone signature on a cue! I have never forged anyone's name on a single cue. TATE, to say a cue made by Mr. Motley with his signature on the cue might have been done by me is lying about me!

I turned down a cue in the early part of this year from a repeat Asian customer because I would not put the same inlays with the same color as a "big name "ACA member did. He did not even ask for a forged signature, only the same woods and the same color of dyed inlays. I have not received another order from that customer. Why a few of you insist on hitting at me when I NEVER hit you FIRST is strange. The way up is not to put someone down, but do your own work and let it talk. I have only placed some fiend on my site after they hit me many times ... and hit me first.

I would hope in the future that you would ask the person before you take a shot at them. It is clearly stated and said on my site that the scrimshaw work is mine.

Most of my scrimshawed cues can be viewed at: http://queperfect.biz/masterscrimshaw.htm

Some of my first years' scrimshander works are mixed in with my Exotic wood cues. Before customers started asking for them they were placed in this section.

The problem with DETAILED scrimshaw work on cues is that most customers cannot comprehend how incredulously long it takes to do and are not willing to pay the high price. I said, "detailed".

Mr. Zinzola, thank you for pointing out the past slams of this individual. I owe you one.

QP Cues
 
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QP Cues said:
Piercy:
"Almost positive"? Really?

I have no earthly idea why you would take a shot at me. I do all of my own scrimshaw, I do not use a tattoo needle, but one small dot at a time. My first work looked like your lone wolf design and that first work was kept by me and has not ever been shown. It was a beginning and not done well compared to what I learned weeks and months later.

You taking that shot, and it most certainly was a shot at me, without EVER having asked me or sent me a single e-mail asking me about my scrimshaw work, although you have spent much time on my site, is like the shot that TATE took when he thought I may have forged someone signature on a cue! I have never forged anyone's name on a single cue. TATE, to say a cue made by Mr. Motley with his signature on the cue might have been done by me is lying about me!

I turned down a cue in the early part of this year from a repeat Asian customer because I would not put the same inlays with the same color as a "big name "ACA member did. He did not even ask for a forged signature, only the same woods and the same color of dyed inlays. I have not received another order from that customer. Why a few of you insist on hitting at me when I NEVER hit you FIRST is strange. The way up is not to put someone down, but do your own work and let it talk. I have only placed some fiend on my site after they hit me many times ... and hit me first.

I would hope in the future that you would ask the person before you take a shot at them. It is clearly stated and said on my site that the scrimshaw work is mine.

Most of my scrimshawed cues can be viewed at: http://queperfect.biz/masterscrimshaw.htm

Some of my first years' scrimshander works are mixed in with my Exotic wood cues. Before customers started asking for them they were placed in this section.

The problem with DETAILED scrimshaw work on cues is that most customers cannot comprehend how incredulously long it takes to do and are not willing to pay the high price. I said, "detailed".

Mr. Zinzola, thank you for pointing out the past slams of this individual. I owe you one.

QP Cues
Click to expand...

I'll reply soon.......
Trying to calm down and watch what I say as to not get involved in a flame war again....
 
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New for the day....

Here's one of captain america....
 

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QP Cues said:
Piercy:
"Almost positive"? Really?

You taking that shot, and it most certainly was a shot at me, without EVER having asked me or sent me a single e-mail asking me about my scrimshaw work, although you have spent much time on my site, is like the shot that TATE took when he thought I may have forged someone signature on a cue! I have never forged anyone's name on a single cue. TATE, to say a cue made by Mr. Motley with his signature on the cue might have been done by me is lying about me!

QP Cues
Click to expand...

I didn't think you did it. I thought it might be one of your cues, or another cue maker from the Phillipines, the earlier cues, that someone else put Paul's signature on.

Anybody can sign a cue - it just didn't look like a Mottey to me. By the way, I e-mailed Mottey twice on this to find out if it was his signature, and he didn't respond. I also e-mailed the original poster on this to see if they found out anything, and they didn't respond either.

Just for my own knowledge, did the cue look familiar?

Chris
 
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