Serious question--- how does backing players make sense financially?!?!

[KRJ]

Rj I'm not sure about the odds but my wife was a dealer for years and now is a supervisor and she says on most people playing blackjack at some point their up and winning but they never hardly quite.

That's one of the big secrets to playing in a casino is when u finally get up on the house go cash out, most won't.

Count me as one of those guys that has no problem quiting as winner I hate when folks say they are playing on "free" or "house" money. Sorry, but once that money moves from their side to my side, it's now my money, nobody else's. And I don't like to lose my money, ever. Oh, I do lose, but I don't like it. I don't really care for the action, I care more about the win

My wife likes Roulette, not very favorable for the player, but it's low stake, it's fun, and she is smart enough to know when she hits, to just walk away

 

[smashmouth]

in theory, (and past practice) you make money when your player has a significant advantage over his opponent and the opponent is offerings odds that are not commensurate with his skill level

simplest example as follows, i.e.,your guy is the huge favourite and the opponent takes a non handicapped bet at even money

people have been known to seek out and create these situations

in reality, in 2017, its next to impossible to get into a game like that, so backers are essentially pissing their money away in comparison to say betting a sports event that will offer significantly better returns

your odds of winning consistent money 'backing' someone where you risk all and only take partial winnings are significantly less than almost any amateur playing any casino game....statistically speaking, long term, it's THAT MUCH of a losing proposition

 

[Poolplaya9]

I've always had this question and I'm seriously wondering and looking for an answer so please keep this proper. I'm sure there's many qualified members to chime in so here goes::: why would someone back a player over the course of more than one match? Unless they win almost every time it can't be a good investment. Just for example say both matches between Dennis n Tony were payed for 100 000$ each player each time. We know that Tony won one n Dennis won the second. So if we can assume the backers gave their horses the typical cut at 25%_75% theyre in a huge Hole. Let's just be safe and say the cut is 33.333333% or a third. So Dennis' backer loses first and is down 100k. Then round two they win which gets them back to even but after the player gets his cut the backer is still down 33k? I mean I'm seriously wondering about this I'm not being foolish or looking for clicks or any other bs that some people think others do on this site.

So again the question is what are some of the reasons people back players and how does it make sense financially(besides the situation where the horse almost always wins because in that case it's pretty obvious why) but in every other situation how does it make sense to back someone over the course of multiple matches ????

Thanks in advance and please offer legit answers!!!

Backing players is almost always a sucker bet. You will hit here and there but over the long haul you will almost certainly lose money. Many people just aren't smart enough to realize that it is a sucker's bet because they haven't done the math like you just did. Also, most of the people that think they are ahead backing players actually aren't. If they kept careful track of all the matches they have backed over the years they would usually find that they are actually down (usually significantly so), not up like they thought. What makes it an even harder game for the backer is that the matches where the player truly has the nuts and is extremely heavily favored to win (which are the kind of matches that have to be included regularly for the the backer to be able to come out ahead over the long haul) are the matches where the players magically have their own money to bet and won't use a backer for those. They always need a backer for the matches that aren't a lock though.

If you have a deal with a player where you back ALL their matches no matter what, no matter how much of a lock they have, and the player can be trusted to put you in all of them and not play some on their own without telling you, and your player is able to get some games regularly where they are very heavily favored, and you have a split arrangement like 80%/20%, or 75%/25% backer/player, then you might get to make money as a backer. But if you are missing any one of those things you will likely be in the hole over time if you keep track carefully.

 

[maha]

nobody but an idiot backs for one session unless his man is stealing.

you back for a long term proposition with makeup. so the player only gets his cut after its over. say like 6 months. and if stuck and wants to continue he has to makeup before he goes plus. and also any money given out for expenses.
then if he makes and/or you make good games both will be ahead at the end of the term.

 

[jackpot]

Well,well

Backing pool players is a losing proposition

except when you have the nuts ,playing strangers or idiots with games
that you can not lose

the average professional pool player counts on dumping his backer for a good percent of his income

lets face it,the player doesn't have any money of his own,he has failed at hiscchosen profession

the only way to make money is to get a groupie stake horse to bet on him with games
he can't win

or he makes games that appear good,but he dumps the backer to get his half

backing is for idiots

Now I know how you really feel. I guess you thought I might not see this,
or even worse didn't care if I did. Well I have feelings too, you know. I'm
thinking very seriously about not borrowing any more cues from you, or
taking any more of the free stuff you send me. If we didn't go back so
far that's exactly what I would do.
jack

 

[Matt_24]

Now I know how you really feel. I guess you thought I might not see this,
or even worse didn't care if I did. Well I have feelings too, you know. I'm
thinking very seriously about not borrowing any more cues from you, or
taking any more of the free stuff you send me. If we didn't go back so
far that's exactly what I would do.
jack

You tell him, Jack! There was no call for that.

 

[Ekojasiloop]

Dennis had a different backer in both matches when he played Tony.

Poor first backer. I wonder if the same backer would have put up for the second set, if he woulda had to pay Dennis. Maybe that’s why Denise found another backer for the second set.

 

[gxman]

Well its just like dead money into pool tournaments. It doesn't make financial sense, but players still enter.

After entry and expenses(travel/hotel), probably over 80% of the players are in the red.

There are plenty of players that will be lucky to win 1-2 matches at the U.S Open 9b, but they still travel and enter at 500-1000(current entry fee).

 

[Cezar Morales]

This came up because over the weekend I was backed st 200$ a game one pocket and after the time bill which was almost 100$ for both players we won basically 300$. My "backer handed me 140$ which in my eyes was more than enough(I've only been backed a few times in my life) but after it was all said and done the backer ended up winning 160$ and had we played again the next day and lost 2 games not only would the backer be even but he would of been minus 240$. I just can't see It being profitable of time. I can see where one time spots are fine but you see guys with backers that back them every game they're in and this is the situation I'm talking about.

Your backer is way too generous.

If he won 300, most you should have got is 20% which is 60 bucks to make up for all the risk he's taking provided you dont have a share of the 300.

Which ya're right , and he will prob have alot to lose if u guys match up again which usually happens on the gentlement conduct, and should u lose, it does not make it worthwhile on his side.

Most filipino players are getting a a cut of 10-20% depending on how popular they are.
In return stakehorse or backer pay for everything from accomodaation hotels food when the travel ard asia gambling.

 

[iusedtoberich]

The only interesting thing in this thread is who the hell backed you for 200 a game one hole, and who were you playing?

Ha ha ha. Papa!

 

[336Robin]

Backers are in a sense promoters or very close. You see how many successful pool promoters there are.

 

[book collector]

When all the regulars are sitting around the pool room complaining theres never any good action to watch, get up and put a hundred or 2 on one guy and have them do the same, now theres action!
Will you get rich ? No , will you get to see some good players at war , yes.
The reason most guys never have any fun at the pool room is because from the first day they walked in , everyone says they are a sucker if they ever lose , ever buy anything , ever show any speed, Its almost like going to a massage parlor and never taking your clothes off.
I almost want to smack people when they spread that crap.
And that is also a lot of what is wrong with pool today.
You can't have games if everyone wants the nuts to play.
So they just sit around and complain and wish, and then play a race to 3 one pocket for a dollar.

 

[sonny burnett]

From a retired stake horse: no action, expenses and dump artists everywhere, it's not worth it. If you crave action and have a large spool, enjoy.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[ratdaddy]

In all the times I've seen a player backed by a horse, the player gets his cut at the end of the session...not after each game or each set (unless only 1 game or 1 set is played of course).

If I play someone 20 games of 9-ball for $100/rack, and I win 4 games, my backer would lose $1,400. Why would he pay me a cut for those 4 games? I didn't win him any money. Otherwise the horse would be paying his player win or lose. I don't care how much someone likes action...if there is no upside, it won't be much fun.

 

[TheMarsMan]

I have staked many different players and overall I am sure that I have made money.

Many times I stake players to give them a chance to make a score and will put them in games that I believe are very close. I am smart enough to know this is a bad bet overall but I enjoy the action and would never bet enough to hurt myself. In these types of matches I have lost overall.

I have staked quite a few big matches and in those I have won quite a bit of money. When you stake SVB you normally have the best of the action, he is a monster in long big money sets and I sometimes wonder why the other backers play. Before I knew Shane I staked Alex P. against him and we won, I was so impressed with Shane that we became friends and I staked him in quite a few matches and we only lost once.

I definitely didn't start staking pool players to make money and anyone that chooses to do it for the money probably won't do too well. I have seen many of the best players in the world play in person, made a lot of great friends and had a wonderful time.

So I guess the moral of the story is only bet money you can afford to lose and put your money on Shane!

 

[Ekojasiloop]

I dont know if anyone brought it up, but I agree. Like for this recent match if you wanna be in action why not just spread around a few, or as many as you can get your hands on, bets.

 

[Black-Balled]

I dont know if anyone brought it up, but I agree. Like for this recent match if you wanna be in action why not just spread around a few, or as many as you can get your hands on, bets.

I don't understand. Spread your bets around?

If you are betting 1000, are you saying it would be more entertaining to bet 100 with 10 others? I don't think so, generally.

Or are you saying it would be equally exciting to bet 500 on each player? Isn't that like standing in front of a fan vs. skydiving? Scuba in a swimming pool? Nonalcoholic beer?!

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

I have staked some 'best in world' caliber players as well as some regional and even local talent. You really have to be smart about it though because you are assuming a lot more risk than if you were straight up betting.

For me there has always been the appeal of making something happen. But yes, to borrow a phrase from Grady, it's fraught with peril. Perils, actually.

Know your horse and their character well.

Backers usually get a pretty good seat to the show. :thumbup:

best,
brian kc

 

[336Robin]

I have staked some 'best in world' caliber players as well as some regional and even local talent. You really have to be smart about it though because you are assuming a lot more risk than if you were straight up betting.

For me there has always been the appeal of making something happen. But yes, to borrow a phrase from Grady, it's fraught with peril. Perils, actually.

Know your horse and their character well.

Backers usually get a pretty good seat to the show. :thumbup:

best,
brian kc

Exactly, do it on a private table and charge the sweaters and youre a promoter!

 

[jay helfert]

You have to pick your spots carefully. For the most part I prefer to back players in tournaments - a limited investment with a chance for a good return. I also often take a piece of a players action as opposed to backing him. Say Dennis is playing someone a 10K set and can only find 7,500 in backing money. I may just take the other 2,500 piece of the bet. If he wins I give him 20%. I also like to side bet on matches, once again I'm "backing" no one that way. If my player wins, I may throw him 10%.

One last story. I played on my own all my life except for one time. An old New York hustler named Al Sunshine took me under his wing and steered me around to some good spots he knew about. We won like four times and chopped up the money each time. Finally he takes me to a spot to play a guy who is a snooker specialist. I told Sunshine that I couldn't beat the guy at snooker but if he plays me 9-Ball or One Pocket I can win. So in comes Hollywood Jack, the snooker champ, and he comes over to me and says are you looking for a game and I say yeah. He says how about short rack snooker for fifty a game (this is in the late 60's, a very big bet) and I say no way, but we can play 9-Ball or One Pocket and bet fifty.

He refuses to play either game and Sunshine tells me to get up there and play him some snooker. I protest but he insists. Of course I lose two games badly and we pull up. He then takes me outside and reads me the riot act on how bad I played. No more backers after that one! :thumbup: