That's his bait to get more money out of the seller...Danktrees said:
Shady Business Practices Need An Opinion?
- Thread starter POOLPLYR1111
- Start date
Craig Fales said:
Well hopefully after this thread, and his new exposure, he will find it more difficult to get away with here on AZ.
But the best thing that could happen, is just maybe, the spirit of Christmas will fill his heart, and he will see the error of his ways and change.
The Grinch hated Christmas! The whole Christmas season!
Now, please don't ask why. No one quite knows the reason.
It could be that his head wasn't screwed on quite right.
It could be, perhaps, that his shoes were too tight.
But I think that the most likely reason of all
May have been that his heart was two sizes too small.
Now, please don't ask why. No one quite knows the reason.
It could be that his head wasn't screwed on quite right.
It could be, perhaps, that his shoes were too tight.
But I think that the most likely reason of all
May have been that his heart was two sizes too small.
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Smorgass Bored said:
lol that's worthy of some rep!
Hunter said:
The three words that best describe him are stink, stank, stunk!!!
TATE said:
Chris, I think these threads are great - if for no other reason, we see peoples' true colors. I never got along to well with Sebas, because of some (apparently) miscommunication over a Hercek long ago, but I like the way he put forth his thoughts in this thread, and when I see people like you support him, it makes it easier to forget old stuff as water under the bridge.
2 other things: I'm astounded that anyone would complain about a tip - I have been sold playing cues with hard as hell water buffalo tips (who cares) and then again, cues with brand new Moori's and pads (bonus)...but again, who cares. If you can't get a cue re-tipped where you live, you are in deep shit anyway.
The other thing - ....I forgot.
yea i swear if someone pulled that crap on me i'd do exactly the same thing and tell them the tip on the cue they sent me is equally as shitty. see what they say after that. i doubt they would actually cancel the deal after all of that since shipping the cue back with insurance would cost more than the price of getting it retipped.
As a result of discussions with several avid AZB supporters and numerous people I have sold cues to, I have decided to cease doing trade deals and purchasing used cues other than: (1) from the person who has supplied me with 99.0% of all the cues I have purchased since August 2004 (contrary to Sebas' claim, I buy very, very few cues on the Net): (2) when the used cue is traded or purchased in a face-to-face transaction: or (3) comes from a repeat customer with whom I have acquired one or more used cues from. The common denominator in all the negative posts in this thread is that the used cues that have been delivered to me from a source other than my virtual sole source supplier were either misrepresented (and yes, Ron told me that his cue had no scratches, dings, dents or chips and it all of the foregoing) or failed to live up to the standards of the Mint or Near Mint cues I sell. Nobody has ever purchased a cue from me and complained that the cue was not 100% as described. Frankly, I could care less what the negative posters to this thread think of me as none have purchased a cue from me, and virtually all have never been involved in a transaction of any sort with me. Two of the negative posters (Ron and Sebas) delivered cues to me that were grossly misrepresented. What Sebas forgot to tell you is that AMEX did a chargeback of the entire purchase price because of his misrepresentations in connection with my purchase of his used Hercek (represented to have no dings or dents, but in fact in need of a compete refinish to remove several dings, dents and chips to be resold as a near mint cue), and he failed to dispute my chargeback claim, which became final. That's right, I won and he lost. Remember Sebas??? Of course not, as you have a very selective memory indeed. Sebas' failure to dispute my chargeback request was an admission of his misrepresentations. So, notwithstanding the nay sayers and negative posters, I will continue to sell only Mint/Unchalked or Near Mint cues at undermarket prices. If you want to pay more for less, then please, go elsewhere.
Again, best regards to all (even the nay sayers and negative posters) in the New Year.
Again, best regards to all (even the nay sayers and negative posters) in the New Year.
ok what you say sounds fair, if the cue was messed up then it was messed up but you still accepted it? cuz from what is said here you inspected it and accepted it and that u only wanted to cancel it after so what was that about? also, what about the tip problem? even if the tip was a bit worn out or whatever and in need of complete replacing, did you, as some have claimed that u wanted to cancel the deal because of it?
obviously i dont know everything about the transaction so perhaps you can clarify it further?
obviously i dont know everything about the transaction so perhaps you can clarify it further?
Quality Cues said:
With the all the individuals who have posted here about their business dealing with you, it is kinda hard to see things from your point of view.
Two of the negative posters (Ron and Sebas) delivered cues to me that were grossly misrepresented. What Sebas forgot to tell you is that AMEX did a chargeback of the entire purchase price because of his misrepresentations in connection with my purchase of his used Hercek (represented to have no dings or dents, but in fact in need of a compete refinish to remove several dings, dents and chips to be resold as a near mint cue), and he failed to dispute my chargeback claim, which became final. That's right, I won and he lost. Remember Sebas???
Specifically the individual you were talking about said the same thing, and this is the important part, you have confirmed above that it was never paid for, and that it was not returned to him. He also stated that you brought a third party into it after three months, who bought the cue for discounted amount, and then apparently through you sold the same cue after a re-finish. My only question concerning any of this is a simple one, is this the honest thing to do
?I have heard this all before!!
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Danktrees said:
Okay, this is my last post to this thread, no matter what. When Ron was on his way to the Post Office on 12/16 to ship the cue, I checked my PM's on AZB. I had sent him one asking him for his full name and address so I could get his package ready for shipping that night when I got home, so I could ship it the next day from work. When I saw his PM and his full name and address in NJ where I was going to be shipping, I immediately remembered him from late 2004/early 2005. When I lived in Maine, he shipped me two beat up cues in a very weathered case in connection with a proposed trade deal. The cues, like his White this time, were not as represented and I shipped them back at my expense the next day -- deal aborted by me. I don't sell beat up cues ever, and everyone in the cue game knows it. After learning of Ron's full name, I immediately called and asked him he was a security guard in NJ and he said yes. I then reminded him about the aborted deal almost three years earlier because the two cues that he had sent me were, in a word, junk. He thought we had consummated that deal, but I reminded him that I aborted the deal because the cues were not as represented, not even close. I then asked him again if the White he was on his way to ship was ding, dent and scratch free and he said "yes." I was convinced by the tone of his voice that he was not telling the truth, so I requested that he not ship me the cue and laid it off on the paper thin tip on the one shaft, rather than getting into a discussion as to whether he was being truthful. He immediately offered me an extra $25.00 and like an idiot, and against my better judgment, I accepted. Well, when I got Ron's White on 12/14, it had the very noticeable scratch, chips in the butt cap and noticeable ding described in my first post to this nasty thread. For the second time, Ron had sent me a cue that was not as described, and in fact, grossly misrepresented. I immediately called Ron and told him I was rejecting his White and would be shipping it and the 1x2 case back by Express Mail that afternoon at my expense, as agreed before he shipped. He immediately offered me an extra $125.00, and quite honestly, I did not trust him to send the money (how does one trust a guy who has lied about the condition of not 1, but 3 cues in two separate deals?), so I settled on the 1x2 case the White was shipped in, which was in my possession. At this time, I did not know that Ron's White was 59" and do not keep a tape measure at work to measure cues with because I always spec trade cues at home before I ship my cue the next day. Because Ron told me he needed my White for a tournament on Saturday, I deviated from my usual routine, and shipped my cue before I spec'ed his cue out. It was only after I spec'ed Ron's cue out at home late that evening that I learned for the first time that he had dealt me a 59" dog. Contrary to what Marcus [FAST_N_LOOSE] has posted to this thread, Ron's cue will not fetch $1,250.00 in its current condition if it is accurately described and advertised as a 59" cue. So, as Paul Harvey says, "now you know the rest of the story."
Again, I only deal in MINT/UNCHALKED or NEAR MINT cues. That is something I will never deviate from. And, every cue sold by me comes with a money back guarantee, and guess what, only 2 have ever been returned, and both were resold quickly thereafter.
runscott said:Chris, I think these threads are great - if for no other reason, we see peoples' true colors. I never got along to well with Sebas, because of some (apparently) miscommunication over a Hercek long ago, but I like the way he put forth his thoughts in this thread, and when I see people like you support him, it makes it easier to forget old stuff as water under the bridge.
2 other things: I'm astounded that anyone would complain about a tip - I have been sold playing cues with hard as hell water buffalo tips (who cares) and then again, cues with brand new Moori's and pads (bonus)...but again, who cares. If you can't get a cue re-tipped where you live, you are in deep shit anyway.
The other thing - ....I forgot.
Well, here's what impressed me about Sebas. Several years ago he said he would sell me an old Spain cue for a certain price, but it needed some shafts from Joel. These were special shafts nobody else could make, because they came from Burton's stock of some very unusual shaft wood -stuff I had never seen before, totally unique.
Joel was very busy and at least six months or more passed and I thought Sebas had forgotten about our deal. I kind of forgot about it myself, and I believe he was offered more money for the cue from someone else.
I get an e-mail from him maybe 8 months later to call him. I call him and he says "Still want it?" Quotes the exact same price, 3 shafts. I ask him if the cue is in good shape. He says "it's ... ok." I get the cue and it's a really nice cue, way better than "just ok".
So, that and he buys and sells some great pieces to my friends, fair to exceptional prices. Chris tracks down good cues from the mid west and he's a great contact for interesting cues, a real bird dog for collectors. I feel that he is an asset for aspiring collectors.
Chris
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manwon said:
With the all the individuals who have posted here about their business dealing with you, it is kinda hard to see things from your point of view.
Two of the negative posters (Ron and Sebas) delivered cues to me that were grossly misrepresented. What Sebas forgot to tell you is that AMEX did a chargeback of the entire purchase price because of his misrepresentations in connection with my purchase of his used Hercek (represented to have no dings or dents, but in fact in need of a compete refinish to remove several dings, dents and chips to be resold as a near mint cue), and he failed to dispute my chargeback claim, which became final. That's right, I won and he lost. Remember Sebas???
Specifically the individual you were talking about said the same thing, and this is the important part, you have confirmed above that it was never paid for, and that it was not returned to him. He also stated that you brought a third party into it after three months, who bought the cue for discounted amount, and then apparently through you sold the same cue after a re-finish. My only question concerning any of this is a simple one, is this the honest thing to do
I have heard this all before!!
I refused to return Seabas' cue until he advanced the funds for the return shipping. When I rejected his cue, he tried to tag me for some ebay fees, and I told him to pound sand because he sold be a cue that was grossly misrepresented. Dave Wasserman, a very reputable cue guy and a good friend, brokered the settlement. He wanted to buy the cue and play with it, perhaps as his everyday player and help me resolve a dispute with Seabas in the process. When he received the cue for a whopping $200.00 discount, he agreed with me that the cue was in need of a complete refinish and sent the cue to Proficient Billiards and spent $390.00 to have the cue refinished and rewrapped. That's right, Dave got a whopping $200.00 discount from Seabas, and then had the privilege of paying Proficient $390.00 to get the cue in an acceptable condition as well as shipping to and from PA. After Dave played with the cue, he decided it was not the player he was looking for (like most every player in the world who is looking for the Holy Grail of a pool cue). Dave is the guy I have purchased approximately 98.5-99.0& of my cues from since August 2004, when we did our first deal. He offered me the cue at a loss in a package deal and I accepted. He had more than $2,800 in the cue, and I did not get that much for the cue here on AZB. So tell me, was it a good deal? I think not. In any event, Sebas being the coward that he is, did not chime in when the cue was on AZB earlier this year. That should tell you all you need to know about him. He probably figured that if he posted negative comments about our transaction at that time, that I would post the truth about him losing my AMEX chargeback for fraudulent selling practices. Enough said. I'm done with this thread and the nonsense. If you want to purchase a MINT/UNCHALKED or NEAR MINT CUE for an undermarket price with a 100% satisfaction guarantee, then buy from me. If not, good luck with your next cue purchase. Best regards.
"I was convinced by the tone of his voice that he was not telling the truth, so I requested that he not ship me the cue and laid it off on the paper thin tip on the one shaft, rather than getting into a discussion as to whether he was being truthful. He immediately offered me an extra $25.00 and like an idiot, and against my better judgment, I accepted.
"I immediately called Ron and told him I was rejecting his White and would be shipping it and the 1x2 case back by Express Mail that afternoon at my expense, as agreed before he shipped. He immediately offered me an extra $125.00, and quite honestly, I did not trust him to send the money (how does one trust a guy who has lied about the condition of not 1, but 3 cues in two separate deals?), so I settled on the 1x2 case the White was shipped in, which was in my possession.
Sorry, but both of these statements sound fishey to me. JMO.
"I immediately called Ron and told him I was rejecting his White and would be shipping it and the 1x2 case back by Express Mail that afternoon at my expense, as agreed before he shipped. He immediately offered me an extra $125.00, and quite honestly, I did not trust him to send the money (how does one trust a guy who has lied about the condition of not 1, but 3 cues in two separate deals?), so I settled on the 1x2 case the White was shipped in, which was in my possession.
Sorry, but both of these statements sound fishey to me. JMO.
Even after reading this entire thread, I feel I have NO business commenting on the transaction in question, so I will not ...
However, I bought a Beautiful Mike Sigel Cue from Mike Gartland several years back ... It was much nicer than I expected and reasonably priced ... I eventually sold it and realized a sizable profit ... That buyer still owns the cue and loves it ...
I am always troubled to hear about cue trades and sales that turn into huge pissing matches and, usually, no one wins in the end ...
I was involved in a eBay deal two years ago that still leaves an awful taste in my mouth ... I was screwed out of $1275.00 by PayPal because the Buyer contracted a terminal case of Buyer's Remorse, then purposely damaged a flawless cue, filed a claim with PayPal, got all his money back, and returned the (now worthless) cue to me and posted Negative Feedback claiming I mis-represented the Cue ...
I still list on eBay (4 active accounts, since 1998, with over $400k in sales), but now the "fun" is gone and I constantly anticipate the next nightmare I may have to deal with ...
However, I bought a Beautiful Mike Sigel Cue from Mike Gartland several years back ... It was much nicer than I expected and reasonably priced ... I eventually sold it and realized a sizable profit ... That buyer still owns the cue and loves it ...
I am always troubled to hear about cue trades and sales that turn into huge pissing matches and, usually, no one wins in the end ...
I was involved in a eBay deal two years ago that still leaves an awful taste in my mouth ... I was screwed out of $1275.00 by PayPal because the Buyer contracted a terminal case of Buyer's Remorse, then purposely damaged a flawless cue, filed a claim with PayPal, got all his money back, and returned the (now worthless) cue to me and posted Negative Feedback claiming I mis-represented the Cue ...
I still list on eBay (4 active accounts, since 1998, with over $400k in sales), but now the "fun" is gone and I constantly anticipate the next nightmare I may have to deal with ...
I feel the need to share some information in regard to my experience with Mike.
I have completed 10-15 custom cue deals with Mike totaling around $25K from 2004-2006 (none since then because I was deployed to Iraq for 15 months and recently returned). If I recall correctly, all of the deals were me selling cues to him. We were both satisfied with every deal and we never had any serious issues.
I would not hesitate to deal with him in the future.
I have completed 10-15 custom cue deals with Mike totaling around $25K from 2004-2006 (none since then because I was deployed to Iraq for 15 months and recently returned). If I recall correctly, all of the deals were me selling cues to him. We were both satisfied with every deal and we never had any serious issues.
I would not hesitate to deal with him in the future.
Cue trade
What I failed to tell everyone? Amex will charge back whatever you ask them to they dont care as long as you give them a reason. What Mike Gartland failed to tell you all is that PAYPAL WOULD NOT DO A CHARGEBACK FOR HIM on our transaction unless he did the AMEX Chargeback. There goes Mike again trying to change the story in his favor. BTW RUNSCOTT I apreciate your honesty in the previous post.
Quality Cues said:
What I failed to tell everyone? Amex will charge back whatever you ask them to they dont care as long as you give them a reason. What Mike Gartland failed to tell you all is that PAYPAL WOULD NOT DO A CHARGEBACK FOR HIM on our transaction unless he did the AMEX Chargeback. There goes Mike again trying to change the story in his favor. BTW RUNSCOTT I apreciate your honesty in the previous post.