Shaft and butt tapers and measurements

F

fram6878

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi everyone. I have a few questions. My girlfriends cue measures 0.845 at the joint and 1.27 at the bottom of the butt. How many of you would be able to build a butt with these exact measurements?

Also, I like the shaft that came with the cue. Is there any way that this shafts taper and diameter can be duplicated exactly? Thanks for everyones input.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
 
Most any cue maker could match those measurements but, that doesn't mean that the cue would have the exact same feel or "hit"
 
I have often wondered, but never asked, about such things.

Cue makers have their tapers. Will cue makers regularly "copy" or reproduce a taper you like for you? Or is it like a forgery? Bad form?


Secondly, is it difficult to copy a shaft taper?

You guys with CNC...do you keep a database of various makers' tapers?

I've been curious about that.
 
Chopdoc said:
I have often wondered, but never asked, about such things.

Cue makers have their tapers. Will cue makers regularly "copy" or reproduce a taper you like for you? Or is it like a forgery? Bad form?


Secondly, is it difficult to copy a shaft taper?

You guys with CNC...do you keep a database of various makers' tapers?

I've been curious about that.
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Chopdoc, I can only speak for myself from the past and than from what I know and have seen in many shops.

The taper of both butt and shaft helps create the "Hit" or a good part of it from a custom cue maker so it becomes his signature so to speak.

Many work off Taper bars, some even with modifications.

Old School can mark and dial in during cut and due to the many cuts the butt and shaft go through it becomes costly to duplicate others taper.

The Butt taper given in the example is not good enough for an accurate promise as there are straight tapers and compound butt tapers so more measurements are needed.

On CNC some of your Cue Builders might have two tapers to satisfy a customer base for the length of straight increments in the shaft towards the ferrule but both are still part of the signature.

If you look at the Cue Makers that could pull this off the buyer would be on a waiting list, probably a long one and could be put on premium dollar as now it is custom custom.

All said and done I think the person wanting this type work done would be better suited to go back to the original mass producer or custom cue builder unless they are no longer available or dead.

JMHO
 
I agree with you tom, but the cuemaker in question has indeed sold all of his cue building lathes. I wasnt for sure how some cuemakers on here would feel about this subject, so I thought I would ask. Thanks everyone for posting and the pm's.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
 
TomHay said:
All said and done I think the person wanting this type work done would be better suited to go back to the original mass producer or custom cue builder unless they are no longer available or dead.

JMHO
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I understand, and this is what I suspected.

If one wants the taper of Cue Maker X, then go to Cue Maker X.


In the case of something old or a retired cue maker then it would truly be a custom order.


I want another shaft for my Huebler and I think it's best that I simply buy an NOS Huebler shaft and get the ring work matched.

I also want a couple of shafts for my 70's JOSS. But I want them "as original". I guess the easiest way is to simply buck up and pay the cost of a couple of great condition originals, or maybe go to Janes if he will reproduce the old tapers etc.


Lastly. I am hoping to have a conversion made of a very old butterfly cue I located. One thing I am thinking is that I may want it done to JOSS dimensions and tapers. This isn't decided yet, but I am considering it. If I do decide that's what I want then it would seem there is only one cue maker to send it to...Mr Janes himself.



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Well, I'll step out on a limb here - especially since I don't have a saw in hand to cut that limb off with: :smile:

I use CNC to taper my butts and shafts. I have my own tapers down and I replicate them for my cues.

If a customer asks me to COPY a cue of known cuemaker X, I am reluctant to do that - I don't have a database of other cuemaker's tapers and I'm not interested in creating such a thing. And I respect the Intellectual Property of those who have gone before me.

Now, in this case, the OP has asked us to DUPLICATE the tapers of a cue that he already owns. Apparently the original cuemaker has sold his equipment and no longer makes cues. I can measure the diameters of the shaft and butt and build those measurements into my G-code and come up with a very close replica of the original. Will it hit the same? Probably not - so many other factors like ferrule and joint materials, number of growth rings in the wood, age of wood. yada yada yada.

Would I make said cue with exactly the same rings, points and/or inlays? No, but the tapers I feel less strongly about and I'm not about to start advertising that I can make a cue that replicates Joe Blow's cues.

I am honestly interested in what the rest of the community feels about this distinction - am I simply blowing smoke up my own a$$?

Gary
 
fram6878 said:
Hi everyone. I have a few questions. My girlfriends cue measures 0.845 at the joint and 1.27 at the bottom of the butt. How many of you would be able to build a butt with these exact measurements?

Also, I like the shaft that came with the cue. Is there any way that this shafts taper and diameter can be duplicated exactly? Thanks for everyones input.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

The butt taper is a common one. I don't personally like it b/c the handle has too much taper for my liking ( gets too fat and too skinny too much on a few inches ) and the forearm is too skinny for my liking as well.
It can be easily duplicated . A few makers would probably refuse to copy that butt taper including myself.
Shaft tapers can be duplicated as well. Measure it every 3 inches or so.
Measuring inch by inch is googanistic in my opinion. Really, only the stroking really matters ( maybe 18" from the tip ).
 
Joey. We already know what a Googan is.
We can all add Googanistic to our cue making vocabulary now.
And with that, we have Googanistical.

Hahaha!
 
GBCues said:
Well, I'll step out on a limb here - especially since I don't have a saw in hand to cut that limb off with: :smile:

I use CNC to taper my butts and shafts. I have my own tapers down and I replicate them for my cues.

If a customer asks me to COPY a cue of known cuemaker X, I am reluctant to do that - I don't have a database of other cuemaker's tapers and I'm not interested in creating such a thing. And I respect the Intellectual Property of those who have gone before me.

Now, in this case, the OP has asked us to DUPLICATE the tapers of a cue that he already owns. Apparently the original cuemaker has sold his equipment and no longer makes cues. I can measure the diameters of the shaft and butt and build those measurements into my G-code and come up with a very close replica of the original. Will it hit the same? Probably not - so many other factors like ferrule and joint materials, number of growth rings in the wood, age of wood. yada yada yada.

Would I make said cue with exactly the same rings, points and/or inlays? No, but the tapers I feel less strongly about and I'm not about to start advertising that I can make a cue that replicates Joe Blow's cues.

I am honestly interested in what the rest of the community feels about this distinction - am I simply blowing smoke up my own a$$?

Gary
Click to expand...


A customer wanted me to copy a shaft for him and build him a new cue. It was very thin, a little less than 12mm for the first 14 inches with an .800 joint. It was very whippy.

I did the first 14 inches thin but came out a little faster towards the butt. The butt finished up at about .835. I wanted to keep a stiff hit like my cues have. I put an ivory ferrule on it with out a pad. It worked out fine and the customer loved it and loved the hit.

You don't need to copy a shaft exactly to have a happy buyer.

When you do your own thing, sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.

Kim
 
whammo57 said:
A customer wanted me to copy a shaft for him and build him a new cue. It was very thin, a little less than 12mm for the first 14 inches with an .800 joint. It was very whippy.

I did the first 14 inches thin but came out a little faster towards the butt. The butt finished up at about .835. I wanted to keep a stiff hit like my cues have. I put an ivory ferrule on it with out a pad. It worked out fine and the customer loved it and loved the hit.

You don't need to copy a shaft exactly to have a happy buyer.

When you do your own thing, sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.

Kim
Click to expand...

That's the "magic" of being the cue maker.

The last time I was talking to a cue maker about such a thing I told him outright that the taper was all up to him as I consider it part of why you get a cue custom made. If you want the taper and other qualities a certain maker is known for, go to that maker for the work I think.

For me the question of "copying" a taper really comes up as part of a restoration or making replacement or additional shafts for "vintage" cues.

I am a bit picky about the use of the word restoration. To me that means accuracy of replication of materials and workmanship. I have seen some beautiful refinish work done on vintage cues that was called a restoration. To me it was not a restoration because it used a modern finish in addition to perhaps other matters such as shafts that did not replicate the original dimensions and taper.



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Thats the part Doc. After playing with different cues and shafts for several years, you should have it down as to what shaft diameter and what taper you prefer to play with. Even your preference in ferrule size and material and tip of choice.

When you have a custom made, all you have to do is say, I would like a 12.50 mm shaft with a 12" Pro taper. Then let the cue maker work his magic on however he builds his shafts. 99% of the time, it will end up being something that you like. Then after that, its your option to possibly have the taper pulled back a bit for you or not.

With a good quality piece of shaft wood, thats pretty much all a person needs.

That said, maybe some makers have their shaft machine set to their preference (they know best what shaft works on their cues) and that may not be possible. For the few customs that I have had made, that particular part of asking for a specific diameter and taper was not a problem for me.
 
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Here are 3 tapers all for the same cue, my personal player. You can go way down with a Pro Taper but you will not have the same taper or hit. I hope pic quality shows it.

DSC_0005.jpg
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
Thats the part Doc. After playing with different cues and shafts for several years, you should have it down as to what shaft diameter and what taper you prefer to play with. Even your preference in ferrule size and material and tip of choice.

When you have a custom made, all you have to do is say, I would like a 12.50 mm shaft with a 12" Pro taper. Then let the cue maker work his magic on however he builds his shafts. 99% of the time, it will end up being something that you like. Then after that, its your option to possibly have the taper pulled back a bit for you or not.

With a good quality piece of shaft wood, thats pretty much all a person needs.

That said, maybe some makers have their shaft machine set to their preference (they know best what shaft works on their cues) and that may not be possible. For the few customs that I have had made, that particular part of asking for a specific diameter and taper was not a problem for me.
Click to expand...



I have often thought that way about my cue. But I also think that a cue maker's "formula" for shafts etc is what helps make his reputation. I can state my preferences for certain things, but in the end I would want it to be a cue of his design and engineering since that's why I would choose to go to him. To that end I feel the taper would be left up to him...but of course that is just me, you can obviously feel quite differently about it.

I have found on several occasions that what I though was best for me actually wan't best for me.


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