Shame on you guys

[av84fun]

I'm unable to see the parallel between publicly criticizing someone who doesn't pay their debts and purchasing the PPV feed from TAR. Yes, in the case of this forum, public discussion is free.* Is that to say, then, that people who do not purchase the PPV feed from TAR should not be allowed to participate in this forum?

* Not counting the cost of an internet connection.

I agree...because there IS no parallel. The owners of this very forum reached out to ask for financial support in the form of a membership ugrade. Some responded...others don't intend to and still others...like me DO intend to as soon as I stop forgetting to do so.

But they did NOT attempt to put a guilt trip on us for not upgrading and this forum provides AT LEAST as much entertainment/education as any TAR live feed does.

The whole "shame on you" tactic is way out of line and could be counter-productive.

And Purdman is not nearly in the minority when he states that he just doesn't much care to watch pro pool matches...many of which are utterly boring even to those who love to PLAY the game. In fact, he is in a HUGE MAJORITY in that regard as is being constantly proven.

We all need to face the FACT that actual competition can be very exciting...even playing "desk hockey" with paper wads and pencils...but I doubt there is a national audience interested in watching it.

Pool, darts, ping pong, bowling, hunting, strong man sports etc. are very popular participation sports but simply aren't going to achieve national VIEWERSHIP on anything but a very small scale and as Walter Cronkite used to say..."And that's the way it is."

Bottom line, viewership of TAR's feeds not having widespread popularity...especially given the PC monitor issue...is about the least surprising thing I've witnessed in a long time.

I STILL WISH for their great success...but wishing for something and seeing it happen are two very different things.

Regards,
Jim

 

[Johnnyt]

We're not talking about people that don't watch matches on their pc free or ppv. We're just talking about the ones that watch the free feed but won't buy the ppv. Cry of the pool player "if it's free it's for me" Johnnyt

 

[lodini]

That being said, there are a lot of people on here that gripe and complain about the sad state of American pool that have the means to pony up a measly $15 that don't.

In another thread about the "sad state of pool" just a few weeks ago, I ask straight out who, if anyone, will be willing to spend their money on pool as fans do in the really successful pro sports. I got nothing but "no's". I think we can conclude that there just isn't enough support out there. It's depressing, but that's the way it is...

 

[Purdman]

In another thread about the "sad state of pool" just a few weeks ago, I ask straight out who, if anyone, will be willing to spend their money on pool as fans do in the really successful pro sports. I got nothing but "no's". I think we can conclude that there just isn't enough support out there. It's depressing, but that's the way it is...

I am sorry, I don't think it is depressing or sad. You said it correctly, it is. The rest of the world doesn't have to love what we do. It is there for us. Let it be!!
Peace, Purdman

 

[BPG24]

Unfortunately i only got to see 3 matches last night. Not sure why coverage of the PPV ended so early. I can think of that $15 as a donation for the free feeds that I have watched.

Friday night I won't be home until towards the end of the session again so i guess i will have to miss this PPV. Maybe next time.

 

[JCIN]

I ordered and PAID for a DVD, never got it.

Hows that for a donation?? lol

Russ.......

Did you contact us?
PM me your name and PayPal info I will refund your money.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

I ordered and PAID for a DVD, never got it.

Hows that for a donation?? lol

Russ.......

Russ,

My wife ordered me the SVB vs AP match and it was in my house in 3 days! I called Justin on his cell phone a couple of days before she ordered it because I had some questions on the matches and he talked to me like we were old buddies for almost a half hour.
I can't say enough good things about Justin & Chad and T.A.R.

I have not had enough timer to watch all the DVD's yet, but when I finish this match, based on what I have watched thus far, I'm going to write a very favorable review

 

[ccshrimper]

I also had two different problems with TAR, both of them a little my fault but I haven't been as eager to buy anymore of their matches. Once I accidentally paid for a match twice, sent them an email and he responded to me saying I'd be refunded but I didn't get it. The second time is a little groggy to me since I was coming home at midnight from the bar but I went to their page and it said *I think* SVB/Busta(might have been SVB/Alex) were going to play so I bought it. I got to the chat and it had either been cancelled or was over. I don't think I should have been able to buy a match if it was already cancelled or over but I took the bullet and didn't send another email.

To their credit, I did get a refund for one match I bought late that didn't go off and they refunded everyone I guess. Might have been Shannon/Tony but I'm not sure. I'm sure they are great guys and doing their best so I considered them donations to help the cause but it sounds like I'm not the only one to have problems. I'll still give them my business but I'm not going to make it a point anymore to see a match to help the cause.

 

[yobagua]

Lighten up buddy. I have spent a whole week at the US Open and only watched a couple of matches. I don't think I have even watched a whole set while there. I didn't even watch my stake-horse win the damn tournament. I just don't like to WATCH pool very much. I did purchase the Schmidt / Harriman matches and was bored to death. Not that it wasn't great pool.
I am thinking that if the interaction between the players could add a lot to it. I would like to hear more of them and see more of their personalities. I am not sure if I would watch then. For TAR's sake, I hope there arn't a lot of players like me. I wish them all the best and moocho success.
JMHO, Purdman

Thanks for your message Purd, but you have been known to have the character of a man that pays his own way. You wouldnt want a discount would you just because you dont view all the matches. I myself am not a bar box guy or a 9 ball guy. I am and forever will be a one pocket man. But I will do everything in my powere to support TAR. Because they are doing it fo us.
Youre right maybe I should lighten up. But take note that I wasnt attacking everyone. It was a response to see all the viewers for free and such a small crowd for the PPV. Around 35. Today there were over 200 viewers. I hope that at least 2/3 of them will take the opportunity to get the PPV. A lot of people have opinions about how pool should become a top sport but they dont put their money where there mouths are.

One thing TAR is doing is letting all these young great players have some publicity. And therefore possibly have some commercial value. Justin Bergman, John Hennessee, Adam Behnke, Tyler Edey, Mitch Ellerman, etc. will just benefit by all the notoriety. Hopefully this can tie them into some sponsors.
Right now TAR is doing this in an exceptional manner.

 

[JB Cases]

As of today before the finals TAR has only 33 buyers. Where are all you guys who say TAR is great!!!!???
If we dont support them they might disappear. There was some great matches today. Shane vs Montel, Luat vs Gabe, and now Luat vs Montel. Take your $15 and give them your money. Is it much to ask. Dont be a freeloader and just watch the free stuff. Support these guys, now!!!!!!! Dont be a nit!!!!!

I am a nit. I spent money twice, three times actually but one match didn't go off, and never got to watch more than 3 seconds of pool at any one time.

I LOVE what TAR is doing but I can't really justify spending money just to donate with nothing in return. If TAR had something like access to the recorded matches at a later time, that could be downloaded somehow then I'd pay for the PPV.

And maybe they do have that now, I haven't kept up with it. If so then TAR needs to be emailing me about it.

I don't think I have received even one promotional email from TAR and I should be getting some as a repeat customer.

Anyway, I am a nit about it. I prefer to be able to watch pool online live but failing that I really love to be able to watch the matches at my leisure, especially if the live feed doesn't work for me.

 

[JB Cases]

Look at it this way, if they got enough viewers only watching the freebies, maybe TAR could get some sponsorships and plug those sponsors during the free streams.

I think this is the best idea. I would gladly pay a reasonable advertising fee to have our brands overlaid on the screen in an unobtrusive manner.

 

[av84fun]

Thanks for your message Purd, but you have been known to have the character of a man that pays his own way. You wouldnt want a discount would you just because you dont view all the matches. I myself am not a bar box guy or a 9 ball guy. I am and forever will be a one pocket man. But I will do everything in my powere to support TAR. Because they are doing it fo us.Youre right maybe I should lighten up. But take note that I wasnt attacking everyone. It was a response to see all the viewers for free and such a small crowd for the PPV. Around 35. Today there were over 200 viewers. I hope that at least 2/3 of them will take the opportunity to get the PPV. A lot of people have opinions about how pool should become a top sport but they dont put their money where there mouths are.

One thing TAR is doing is letting all these young great players have some publicity. And therefore possibly have some commercial value. Justin Bergman, John Hennessee, Adam Behnke, Tyler Edey, Mitch Ellerman, etc. will just benefit by all the notoriety. Hopefully this can tie them into some sponsors.
Right now TAR is doing this in an exceptional manner.

I sympathize with your mission to be supportinve of TAR. I too wish them well. But you should be intellectually honest when you are taken to task for attacking/bashing those who have not subscribed to the PPV because that is EXACTLY what you did as others have pointed out to you...but you keep denying it.

Here was your OP which led off by saying we should be "ashamed."

"As of today before the finals TAR has only 33 buyers. Where are all you guys who say TAR is great!!!!???
If we dont support them they might disappear. There was some great matches today. Shane vs Montel, Luat vs Gabe, and now Luat vs Montel. Take your $15 and give them your money. Is it much to ask. Dont be a freeloader and just watch the free stuff. Support these guys, now!!!!!!! Dont be a nit!!!!!

If you don't think that called members shameful, freeloading nits is not bashing or attacking then you are sadly mistaken.

You are also mistaken that "they are doing it for us." No they're not. Are you JCIN??

What they are doing is building a business model that will hopefully work well enough to attract sponsors to help defray production/travel/marketing expenses and eventually...hopefully...return a PROFIT...which is GREAT. Such entrepreneurship is what makes America great. I APPLAUD THEM AND WISH THEM WELL.

But I suggest they NOT doing it out of the goodness of their hearts purely as a service to forum members with no hope or intent to make a profit.

And just so the JimSnipers don't ALL come piling on I say again, I am 100% in favor of what they are doing. I wish them WELL. I hope they succeed beyond their wildest dreams and singlehandedly lift the sport to new levels of popularity.

Jim

 

[av84fun]

I am a nit.

LOL!...But at least you're not a shameful freeloader too?

(-:

GREAT cases by the way!

Regards,
Jim

 

[hejests]

I sympathize with your mission to be supportinve of TAR. I too wish them well. But you should be intellectually honest when you are taken to task for attacking/bashing those who have not subscribed to the PPV because that is EXACTLY what you did as others have pointed out to you...but you keep denying it.

Here was your OP which led off by saying we should be "ashamed."

"As of today before the finals TAR has only 33 buyers. Where are all you guys who say TAR is great!!!!???
If we dont support them they might disappear. There was some great matches today. Shane vs Montel, Luat vs Gabe, and now Luat vs Montel. Take your $15 and give them your money. Is it much to ask. Dont be a freeloader and just watch the free stuff. Support these guys, now!!!!!!! Dont be a nit!!!!!

If you don't think that called members shameful, freeloading nits is not bashing or attacking then you are sadly mistaken.

You are also mistaken that "they are doing it for us." No they're not. Are you JCIN??

What they are doing is building a business model that will hopefully work well enough to attract sponsors to help defray production/travel/marketing expenses and eventually...hopefully...return a PROFIT...which is GREAT. Such entrepreneurship is what makes America great. I APPLAUD THEM AND WISH THEM WELL.

But I suggest they NOT doing it out of the goodness of their hearts purely as a service to forum members with no hope or intent to make a profit.

And just so the JimSnipers don't ALL come piling on I say again, I am 100% in favor of what they are doing. I wish them WELL. I hope they succeed beyond their wildest dreams and singlehandedly lift the sport to new levels of popularity.

Jim

I agree with Jim.

 

[dbankjr]

As of today before the finals TAR has only 33 buyers. Where are all you guys who say TAR is great!!!!???
If we dont support them they might disappear. There was some great matches today. Shane vs Montel, Luat vs Gabe, and now Luat vs Montel. Take your $15 and give them your money. Is it much to ask. Dont be a freeloader and just watch the free stuff. Support these guys, now!!!!!!! Dont be a nit!!!!!

You are playing to a very specific group when you are asking for people to watch something for free and then expect them to pay when the good shit happens.
Does anyone watch free porn on the net? We all like sex but if you have searched you know where you can watch for free, so does that make you a nit (I know it doesn't specificly apply) if you can watch for free and won't throw your credit card at them?
This mind set is part of the problem with pool IMHO..HUBRIS..at a certain level which few on the outside will understand there is that arrogant lining that will keep some people from even wanting to get involved. There used to be decorum. A lot of that left when TCOM came out. Who teaches the respect the game deserves anymore?
I have read it before on here, "I don't want to even bother playing with someone who doesn't understand the game."
That's just lovely. I suppose the people that say that were just born with talent.
I know I got off base on my rant but sometimes this sport sounds like it's one little inside joke that the players don't want anyone else to get and I love this game as much as anyone so I am just as much to blame.
I have great respect for those that have brought the game to the level it is at today but I believe attitude sometimes gets in the way of promoting it to those that are less than the upper crust.

 

[yobagua]

I sympathize with your mission to be supportinve of TAR. I too wish them well. But you should be intellectually honest when you are taken to task for attacking/bashing those who have not subscribed to the PPV because that is EXACTLY what you did as others have pointed out to you...but you keep denying it.

Here was your OP which led off by saying we should be "ashamed."

"As of today before the finals TAR has only 33 buyers. Where are all you guys who say TAR is great!!!!???
If we dont support them they might disappear. There was some great matches today. Shane vs Montel, Luat vs Gabe, and now Luat vs Montel. Take your $15 and give them your money. Is it much to ask. Dont be a freeloader and just watch the free stuff. Support these guys, now!!!!!!! Dont be a nit!!!!!

If you don't think that called members shameful, freeloading nits is not bashing or attacking then you are sadly mistaken.

You are also mistaken that "they are doing it for us." No they're not. Are you JCIN??

What they are doing is building a business model that will hopefully work well enough to attract sponsors to help defray production/travel/marketing expenses and eventually...hopefully...return a PROFIT...which is GREAT. Such entrepreneurship is what makes America great. I APPLAUD THEM AND WISH THEM WELL.

But I suggest they NOT doing it out of the goodness of their hearts purely as a service to forum members with no hope or intent to make a profit.

And just so the JimSnipers don't ALL come piling on I say again, I am 100% in favor of what they are doing. I wish them WELL. I hope they succeed beyond their wildest dreams and singlehandedly lift the sport to new levels of popularity.

Jim

Well I think we have some disagreements here. But rather than carry on any further intellectual discourse about what I said or meant is really useless. And I really dont want to get into it with someone like you. But I know I was not bashing every member of AZ billiards. I was attacking those who are freeloaders and nits. They do exist. Why because I am reminding of myself that I have those tendencies too. I remind myself not to be a freeloader and nit myself.
And when I said TAR is doing it for us. I dont think that many will disagree. THey certainly are not showing a profit from all of this hard work. Of course they are doing it for the passion and love of the game but ultimately we benefit. Even a worm can understand that. And also there are many members who do agree with me as well.
Any now lets just end this intercourse between you and I. I gladly dont have to live with you and you dont have to live with me. Our lives can be seperate, thankfully. And hope that the over 200 viewers today that logged on for free will pay for the PPV tomorrow. Even the freeloaders and nits.

 

[av84fun]

Well I think we have some disagreements here. But rather than carry on any further intellectual discourse about what I said or meant is really useless. And I really dont want to get into it with someone like you.

Why? Because you can't keep up? What is "someone like you" supposed to mean? Someone who thinks you owe an apology to the vast majority of members here? Fine.

But I know I was not bashing every member of AZ billiards.

No, not all. Only about 99% of them.

I was attacking those who are freeloaders and nits. They do exist. Why because I am reminding of myself that I have those tendencies too. I remind myself not to be a freeloader and nit myself.
And when I said TAR is doing it for us. I dont think that many will disagree.

I think that almost everyone would disagree. I think TAR would disagree. Yes they are losing money but that is not their GOAL. There goal is to MAKE money...which is GREAT! I HOPE they do. But IF they do, they are not going to distribute their profits to the members of the forum.

YES, they love the game but that is NOT why they started TAR. They started TAR to make money! IMHO.

THey certainly are not showing a profit from all of this hard work. Of course they are doing it for the passion and love of the game but ultimately we benefit. Even a worm can understand that.

See above...and even a worm can understand that too.
And also there are many members who do agree with me as well.
Any now lets just end this intercourse between you and I. I gladly dont have to live with you and you dont have to live with me. Our lives can be seperate, thankfully. And hope that the over 200 viewers today that logged on for free will pay for the PPV tomorrow. Even the freeloaders and nits.

..........................

 

[Purdman]

Thanks for your message Purd, but you have been known to have the character of a man that pays his own way. You wouldnt want a discount would you just because you dont view all the matches. I myself am not a bar box guy or a 9 ball guy. I am and forever will be a one pocket man. But I will do everything in my powere to support TAR. Because they are doing it fo us.
Youre right maybe I should lighten up. But take note that I wasnt attacking everyone. It was a response to see all the viewers for free and such a small crowd for the PPV. Around 35. Today there were over 200 viewers. I hope that at least 2/3 of them will take the opportunity to get the PPV. A lot of people have opinions about how pool should become a top sport but they dont put their money where there mouths are.

One thing TAR is doing is letting all these young great players have some publicity. And therefore possibly have some commercial value. Justin Bergman, John Hennessee, Adam Behnke, Tyler Edey, Mitch Ellerman, etc. will just benefit by all the notoriety. Hopefully this can tie them into some sponsors.
Right now TAR is doing this in an exceptional manner.

The only discount I get is the senior citizens discount at Taco Bell.
I have never watched a TAR event for free. I can appriciate what they are doing. Like I said, I wish them success.
Purd

 

[JCIN]

YES, they love the game but that is NOT why they started TAR. They started TAR to make money! IMHO

I think speak I for everyone at TAR when I say that if all we were in it for was the money we would have done something different. Speaking for me personally I have never been as broke as I am now. But it doesn't really matter to me because I believe in and love what I am doing. I am also confident that there is a future to what we are doing that will allow for enough to live on. If it doesnt work out, oh well, we got to see some great pool and meet a whole lot of great people. Personally if I cared about money I would not be doing this. As long as I have enough to live on and make it to the next stop I am happy with that for near future.

We have recieved an amazing amount of support from people all over the world and especially from the AZ community. Very simply if it wasn't for people on AZ we would not be here. We are greatful for all of the orders and PPV buys that we get.

I know that the streaming medium has many holes and it is definetly not for everyone and that the schedule of matches will be hard for many to watch live. Many people have told us we have no shot to succeed "Pool players are too cheap". But so far that is far from the truth, we have been able to pay off some debt, buy some new equipment, pay for travel expenses and so far Chad and I are not missing any meals We aint getting rich but then we never expected to, we absolutely want to grow and expand into bigger and better events with better production values and presentation. I think we will make it.

We make mistakes and things get missed. When that happens we do our best to make it right all I ask is that we get a fair shake. I recieved an email from a guy calling us scam artists because he could not view the stream. The reason he could not was spelled out clearly in the FAQ. I refunded his money and told him exactly what I thought of his "scam artist" remark and told him to please not buy anymore PPV or anything else from us. I will bend over backwards to make up for a mistake but I will not put up with being insulted. If there is a fatal flaw for me in this thing that could be it.

The OP is one of our biggest supporters and has been since the beginning, he is passionate about the game and we respect him very much. I see his point but I also see the point of everyone who posted in opposition to him. We know that we can't shame people into watching, what we can and will do is continue to improve our product and our delivery of it. I believe that the stuff we do is exciting and priced right, the quality will continue to improve and the market will be there if we do our part.

I apologize for the rambling post, I just wanted to thank all of you who support us.

Justin Collett

 

[catscradle]

I sympathize with your mission to be supportinve of TAR. I too wish them well. But .... I wish them WELL. I hope they succeed beyond their wildest dreams and singlehandedly lift the sport to new levels of popularity.

Jim

tap-tap-tap.
They're in business, if they present a product people want, people will buy it. If they don't present a product people find worth buying, the people shouldn't be knocked for not buying it. They are not a charity, if I can help I will, but I'm not going to buy something I don't want. If they are successful via "the kindness of strangers", it will not help the state of pool at all, won't hurt but won't help.
I bought a few dvds because I want that product, sorry all, I don't want the ppv. Even the dvds are proving a little disappointing. I would like a little more meaningful commentary and a little less inside chit-chat. The first one with Bill Incardona and Grady Matthews was significantly better.