Shame Shame on you Frankie Hernandez, The other side of the story.

[Blackjack]

David, would you allow a player to disrupt other players throughout the event? Would you ask that player to settle down? Or would you give that player free reign to say and do whatever they wanted to?

From what we know the situation with the draw was corrected before play began. Frankie was winning his matches and the tournament was progressing. What should Jose' have done for Frankie after that? I know Jose very well and I am sure that he tried everything he could of to prevent having to eject Frankie from the tournament.

John

John -
It would not have occured if not for the actions of the person that changed the draw. Frankie's reaction is a result of that. Look at the source of the dispute, then look at what it has caused. Messing with the chart should have never happened and Jose said that in his post. It was corrected, but he still had a pissed off pool player. Frankie's reation was probably over the top, and I am not placing a halo over his head in any way. Its up to both of them to work it out between themselves. You and I can debate the issue of who is right and who is wrong all day. Both parties are at fault and apologies need to be made by both sides. If neither is willing to do that, then Jose lost a player and Frankie lost a tour to play on. Who wins? Nobody. Now if they were to sit down and come to an agreement, put the animosity aside and take measures to ensure that this never happens again (including Frankie's behavior) then everyone will have learned something from this experience.

 

[9 Ball Girl]

Calcuttas are not allowed in Comet Billiards so no one lost out on buying anyone.

The helper fukced up (big time) and from what I've heard from others that were there, the mistake was fixed before the tournament started. Jose, being the TD, should take responsibility for the helper and from what I hear he did because the helper is no longer a helper.

(I think someone mentioned something about needing helpers): All tournaments, that I've seen, have helpers. I've helped in several of them, whether it be collecting money or writing the matches up on the board, announcing the matches, etc. I also helped out in the Big Apple tourney and things got monetarily screwy there that was beyond me but that's something that was covered back when it happened and because of the way it went down, Jose pulled out any stops he had for the Blaze tour in Master Billiards.

The helper said that he didn't want to see 2 pros playing together in the first round. It sucks but the luck of the draw is the luck of the draw. I've read on here that Frankie has in fact played pros such as Santos and Basavich in the first round where the draw wasn't switched then--Does anyone know which stop(s) these matches were played in?

 

[SUPERSTAR]

Considering that there is no seeding, the easiest way to prevent this from happening, is to get 64 cards, number them, and have each player come up and pick a number that would correspond to their respective spot on the chart.

It is the only way to guarantee a fair draw, and everyone will remember what number they picked, and therefore know exactly where they belong.

Considering that locally, i've seen TD's that have manipulated the draw by specifically placing people against others by request or for kickbacks, the only thing that ultimately stopped the problem was when the individual picking of the cards was implemented.

Before that, it was just a plethora of corruption.

 

[Jaden]

Ok. Helper problems?

I don't know who he picked to be a helper, but I've known NO ONE in my history of tournaments that would think that changing a draw to avoid certain people being matched up was above board. The fact that Jose claims that it was an honest mistake, makes me smell fish. I can't imagine anyone involved in the pool world thinking that that was above board. I mean unless he picked some schmoe joe from the street to be his helper. I wasn't there. Ok. so what I've now heard both sides of teh story and while it seems that Frankie may be a little bit of a hothead, so what. I would've been screaming bloody murder if that SH$T happened to me.

Imagine if he hadn't seen the actual draw? What would've stopped the "HELPER" from doing that in every tournament, or who's to say it hasn't happened in every tournament. I sure as sh$t didn't pay attention to every draw in every tournament I've been in.

This kills the credibility of the BLAZE tour and hurts pool. IMHO, I think the TD should've done whatever he could in that situation, if it was a legitimate mistake, to remedy the problem and calm down Frankie, not get up in his face and ask him what the problem was, he knew damn well what the problem was. The problem was that his credibility as a TD was smashed to ribbons the second that the draw was changed, especially when it was admitted that the reason was to avoid two pros playing each other in the first round?

 

[watchez]

We have a tournament here in St Louis, every Thanksgiving weekend. 128 players. They do the draw by letting the person that buys the player in the player auction place the player anywhere they want on the chart. Buy yourself and you can put yourself in any open spot you want. This tends to 'seed' the players without going thru and ranking them all. It works just great! Every once in awhile you will even see a player buy themself & then put themself up in the first match against one of the favorites. No hidden draw. No playing of favorites. And no helper needed.

Note to Blackjack: Onepocketchump John would argue with me if I said water was wet. Don't expend too much energy trying to have him understand how an end is a result of a beginning.

 

[Blackjack]

Note to Blackjack: Onepocketchump John would argue with me if I said water was wet. Don't expend too much energy trying to have him understand how an end is a result of a beginning.

Thanks for the tip.

 

[AlterEgo]

I was there, and there was no calcutta. I know the helper very well, and the helper is the furthest thing from dishonest.

A mistake in judgment was made on the helper's part. However, Frankie's endless ranting and raving and piss-poor in-your-face attitude about it for the ensuing hours was the reason he was kicked out of the tournament. A lot of people are passing judgment on this episode as if they were there themselves.

Steve, whether Frankie was right or wrong, his attitude was what got him ejected from the tournament.

I was there too, and this sums it up. I can understand why Frankie was upset, but his continuing negativity after the problem was corrected disrupted the event.

J

 

[Sweet Marissa]

I don't understand why this is still an issue. It was settled; José settled it at the tournament. José Burgos is known to be a great tour director. People want to point the finger at him for being in charge. Is a store manager responsible when an employee does something wrong? Yes and no... He can't control someone else's actions, but he rectified the situation. What more can one expect?

 

[Jaden]

It's not as far as I'm concerned.

I don't understand why this is still an issue. It was settled; José settled it at the tournament. José Burgos is known to be a great tour director. People want to point the finger at him for being in charge. Is a store manager responsible when an employee does something wrong? Yes and no... He can't control someone else's actions, but he rectified the situation. What more can one expect?

I could care less. This was the first I was hearing about it so I chimed in; however, I think the point is not that he rectified the situation, I think it's that it should've never happened in the first place.

 

[9 Ball Girl]

I don't know who he picked to be a helper, but I've known NO ONE in my history of tournaments that would think that changing a draw to avoid certain people being matched up was above board.

I would love to claim that fact but unfortunately, I used to help out in a tournament where I would write the names up on the board and then a couple of times was directed to switch certain names and tables around only to have it questioned by the players and I would just send them over to the person who directed me to do that, the TD, 'cause I knew it was wrong and I never did and never will change something like that because it defeats the whole purpose of having a draw. (I finally blew a gasket one night and it resulted in the TD not ever speaking to me again, but c'est la vie. That tournament is now defunct.)

The fact that Jose claims that it was an honest mistake, makes me smell fish. I can't imagine anyone involved in the pool world thinking that that was above board.

I agree with you on that one, I can't see how this helper would be into pool and not know that you're not suppose to pull the 'ole switcharoo. I think the word "honest" is a poor choice but I believe it was meant in a way where the helper may've thought he was doing something good which leads me to believe that he does not know much about the pool world.

Imagine if he hadn't seen the actual draw? What would've stopped the "HELPER" from doing that in every tournament, or who's to say it hasn't happened in every tournament. I sure as sh$t didn't pay attention to every draw in every tournament I've been in.

I hear you and it's a good thing Frankie noticed because now that helper is no longer a helper and hopefully it won't happen again on the BLAZE or any other tour. It's unfortunate that this is how it turned out with Frankie being banned and everything else that happened.

IMHO, I think the TD should've done whatever he could in that situation, if it was a legitimate mistake, to remedy the problem and calm down Frankie, not get up in his face and ask him what the problem was, he knew damn well what the problem was. The problem was that his credibility as a TD was smashed to ribbons the second that the draw was changed, especially when it was admitted that the reason was to avoid two pros playing each other in the first round?

From what I know, the TD did what he had to do and changed the draw back to what it was originally before the tournament started. I think the "What's your problem" question arose after the draw was back to its original state and the tournament proceeded and Frankie still (with good reason) had a problem after winning his first two matches.

This whole situation sucks.

 

[Blackjack]

I don't understand why this is still an issue. It was settled; José settled it at the tournament. José Burgos is known to be a great tour director. People want to point the finger at him for being in charge. Is a store manager responsible when an employee does something wrong? Yes and no... He can't control someone else's actions, but he rectified the situation. What more can one expect?

We can expect that adults will act as such. It is not settled. It's a bad situation and there are unresolved issues. And yes, a store manager is responsible for the conduct of his/her employees. Its called accountability. It doesn't mean that Frankie's outbursts are acceptable, it just mans that you go to the root cause of why this occurred in the first place, which was due to the actions of someone that was acting as Jose's representative. I'm sure Joe handled it as best he could under the circumstances (while still having an event to run) but it does not mean that this cannot be worked out between them once the tempers subside. Adults work these things out, children react in stubbornness.

 

[watchez]

I don't understand why this is still an issue. It was settled; José settled it at the tournament. José Burgos is known to be a great tour director. People want to point the finger at him for being in charge. Is a store manager responsible when an employee does something wrong? Yes and no... He can't control someone else's actions, but he rectified the situation. What more can one expect?

Yes the manager is responsible. That is part of the job title. Responsibility. They hire the employee, they train the employee, they are held accountable for the employee's performance & actions. No the customer is not always right and a good manager will also stand behind his employee if need be. But in this instance, with the employee being deceitful & dishonest there was no reason to brush it off as a mistake. If Frankie is/was a regular customer than Jose should have had the common sense to know what he was dealing with. Beforehand, he should've warned his helper & told him, above all else, make this a smooth go for Frankie so we don't have any headaches. Not everyone has a perfect personality & they become a product of their environment. I don't know Frankie but this seems the case with him. Sounds like he has been done wrong in life & goes to great lengths & obvious exaggerations to make sure he is now done right. Most pool players don't play attention to the payouts in tournaments, let alone the draw.

 

[watchez]

I have never heard of the BLAZE tour, being from the Midwest. It got me thinking, where does it get its' name? When I hear the word BLAZE all I can think of is a slang name for someone high on pot.

 

[onepocketchump]

We have a tournament here in St Louis, every Thanksgiving weekend. 128 players. They do the draw by letting the person that buys the player in the player auction place the player anywhere they want on the chart. Buy yourself and you can put yourself in any open spot you want. This tends to 'seed' the players without going thru and ranking them all. It works just great! Every once in awhile you will even see a player buy themself & then put themself up in the first match against one of the favorites. No hidden draw. No playing of favorites. And no helper needed.

Note to Blackjack: Onepocketchump John would argue with me if I said water was wet. Don't expend too much energy trying to have him understand how an end is a result of a beginning.

Note to board: I wouldn't argue that water is or isn't wet. I do know that this nit won't bet a dime that water is wet even if I threw him in.

Watchez. I don't really know why you continue to be a jerkoff. But as long as you do you'll get the response a jerkoff deserves. Blackjack can take care of himself without you babysitting him. But, I'll ask you the same questions and see what kind response you come up with. Would you allow a player to continue to disrupt the tournament and the other players if you were the tournament director? Is there ANY circumstance you can think of where this should be allowed to go on?

John

 

[onepocketchump]

I have never heard of the BLAZE tour, being from the Midwest. It got me thinking, where does it get its' name? When I hear the word BLAZE all I can think of is a slang name for someone high on pot.

In a wonderful fit of irony, the BLAZE tour is sponsored by Sterling Gaming, and BLAZE is a brand of cue that we exclusively distribute. Now you can go off about how I am defending Jose' just because of the sponsorship. Nothing could be further from the truth. I know Jose' well and I believe he has every intention of running top notch events. His ratings from the players and fans at his events have been nothing less than stellar until this incident. For you and some others to automatically assume crookedness is nothing but mean-spirited condemnation. I didn't even bother to say anything about your pompous arrogance in your other posts. One of these days we will find out if you can hit the end rail for some serious cash and that will be enough for me.

John

 

[onepocketchump]

John -
It would not have occured if not for the actions of the person that changed the draw. Frankie's reaction is a result of that. Look at the source of the dispute, then look at what it has caused. Messing with the chart should have never happened and Jose said that in his post. It was corrected, but he still had a pissed off pool player. Frankie's reation was probably over the top, and I am not placing a halo over his head in any way. Its up to both of them to work it out between themselves. You and I can debate the issue of who is right and who is wrong all day. Both parties are at fault and apologies need to be made by both sides. If neither is willing to do that, then Jose lost a player and Frankie lost a tour to play on. Who wins? Nobody. Now if they were to sit down and come to an agreement, put the animosity aside and take measures to ensure that this never happens again (including Frankie's behavior) then everyone will have learned something from this experience.

You didn't answer my question. At the time that Frankie was disrupting the tournament, after the draw had been corrected, would you have allowed Frankie to continue to disrupt the tournament or would you have ejected him if he continued to disrupt?

John

 

[pete lafond]

...

Note to Blackjack: Onepocketchump John would argue with me if I said water was wet. Don't expend too much energy trying to have him understand how an end is a result of a beginning.

QUOTE=onepocketchump]...
John[/QUOTE]


Please just kidding around, not to be taken seriously.

Water is not wet is it? However if you spill it on something, that something becomes wet.

 

[vagabond]

Isnt this the same Frankie that got expulsed from a US Open a couple years back for punching out Jimmy Reid?

That is carlos VIERA from connecticut.Amazing u still remeber that incident.

 

[Blackjack]

You didn't answer my question. At the time that Frankie was disrupting the tournament, after the draw had been corrected, would you have allowed Frankie to continue to disrupt the tournament or would you have ejected him if he continued to disrupt?

John

John,
I am not second guessing Jose's decision to have Frankie removed. I was not there, and all I am hearing is different versions of what happened. At this point, what happened is not as important as trying to come to a solution. Many people do and say things they will later regret, and I'm sure both parties understand that. Its not important what "I" would do in that situation, it is important to the tour and to the players to take measures to ensure this doesn't happen again in the future. Going in reverse and second guessing the parties involved doesn't get anyone closer to a solution. So, my answer is that given the circumstances Jose probably made the best decision (albeit a difficult decision) at that point in time. OTOH, so did Frankie.

 

[watchez]

If I was purposefully cheated, I would want the entire tournament to know. Being a tournament director takes a lot of patience. Some can handle the job, some can't. I know I couldn't. Especially if it was dealing with pool players. It is how it is handled that helps settle and defuse the situation. As i earlier posted, just as the manager in a restaurant offers a free meal if you get bad service, Jose should've offered a free entry. From this story, I doubt that Frankie would ever play in another of these tournaments, barred or not.

I find it ironic that onepocketchump continues to try to get my goat while he wants complete forgiveness for his friend, Jose. Oh by the way, I SUCK AT POOL. I hope that is clear to you since you like capital letters so much. I have only hit the end rail once in my life, I have two witnesses that were there. You John, are the one that can't let it go. Not everyone gets off swimmingly at first but with you I can see that it will never end. I remember the first time I met Tony Chohan, we clashed personality wise & had a big disagreement while gambling. He thought he was right & so did I. That is over and done with. Now when I run into Tony I wouldn't say we are best buddies but we are cordial with each other. He had a few beers with me last year at the DCC, something I bet 6 months ago prior he would've bet would not happen. We are not friends but we can at least acknowledge each other's presence like adults. You think gambling or in your case losing money makes you a man? Around here, we would just call you a sucker. Like I said before, I guarantee I get more action in a day than you get in a month. I don't need to lower myself to name calling or personal attacks. Come to the DCC & I will gladly buy you a beer.