Should PocketPoint be banned

[sfleinen]

"Look, world... <strikes match>... Fire!"

PocketPoint:

I'm not a fan of banning anyone on open public forums, not unless that member is violating the rules terms of service of the forum itself.

You are not violating the rules/TOS, therefore I voted "No." You are being incredibly annoying, yes, but violating rules? No.

Normally, I just breeze by your incessant threads about league play, and look for more interesting things. Like another member mentioned, when I see thread titles like "Barbox 8-ball is for girls," I just shake my head, and move my eyes past your threads to look for something else. I don't even bother to open it, unless I notice that the thread itself is attracting voluminous replies -- then I'll open it to see what's up (perhaps for entertainment factor).

However, this poll attracted my eyes because it was started by someone that I respect, normally assume to be quite tolerant of board behavior. I thought, "What this? Ingo started a poll about PocketPoint? I *have* to check this out!!"

And, I have to respond to something that I see is a recurring theme in your posts. That is, of how you seem to think of yourself. Specifically, your newbieness to these boards -- complete unawareness that these topics have been discussed before ad nauseam on these boards -- but you think that you're some kind of Che Guevara or something.

I've highlighted in bold a couple things that I want to respond to, below.

Actually, I am helping the pool community by telling everyone the truth about what is happening to our game. The things that are wrong with pool, but nobody wants to talk about.

Really? What foundation do you have that should make people drop what they're doing and listen to you? Why is it that if it's coming from your mouth (or your pen, or your keyboard) specifically, that it's "the truth"?

You have an awful lofty opinion of yourself.

You're right Skip.

My posts are concerning topics that some people don't want to hear. They don't want to hear about the destruction of the pool world. The watered down barbox game that is taking control of the industry. The mind numbing league play that many are tricked into participating in.

I'm fighting for something, but seem to be getting nowhere.

You are entitled to have the beliefs that you do about leagues. And you are entitled to express your opinion about it. But, concerning the bolded part, do you honestly think that you're some kind of Che Guevara or something? Do you really think of yourself as some kind of revolutionary? If that is the case, you honestly have no clue about the history of these boards. Or if you do, you're belligerently ignoring it, and think that if it comes from your mouth/pen/keyboard specifically, that it "somehow will be the difference." Forget the fact that the doldrums of our sport is discussed EVERY DAY here on these boards in other threads (and have been so, throughout the years). "My gosh, because PocketPoint brought it up, we need to do something!"

The sad thing is, by ignoring me, you are ignoring the problems that will plague pool until it is completely ruined in this country.

Please remember this, the most dangerous people in a society are not the radicals, but the complacent. The mass majority that do nothing, until it is too late. They are either too busy, or too ignorant to notice that a problem is growing, until it is too late.

Oh my. Where do I begin? That opening sentence smacks of such high-and-mighty (and authoritativeness) that I'm at a loss. In fact, I stand in awe at the gall. However, let me have a playful word-play spin on it: "by ignoring me, you are ignoring the problems that will plague pool until it is completely ruined in this country." Let's take that sentence LITERALLY. So, if we ignore you, we are ignoring the problems that will plague pool until it is completely ruined in this country? You're saying you are a problem, and that you shouldn't be ignored? Hmm... I guess that's why Ingo started this poll -- to do something about this problem -- to do something about you.

Why are you always rude with me. I told you what must be done to this game. New players need to see high stakes action.

Good grief. Yes sir, Mr. Guevara!

And why do you continue to disrespect me?

I am not revealing myself at this time because I do not want my own skill level to hve influence over the validity of my thoughts. Just because I play at a given level does not mean people should listen to me more or less.

Say what? While *everyone* is encouraged to share their ideas, beliefs, questions, concerns, and just plain general thoughts on these boards, whether you like it or not, your playing ability *does* come into play. It is a POOL FORUM after all -- i.e. do you play this game, and at what level? It is the nature of the beast. It's not like, say, a columnist from Landscaping Magazine can come on here, and tell you how to perform a draw shot when that columnist's own experience at this game is completely unknown. If you're going to tell us why pool leagues and bar tables are destroying our sport, when it comes to your foundation and why it's "the truth" (read: why we should listen to you specifically, even though you're ignoring the history of these boards), I'll offer you a line from the classic I Love Lucy TV series: "Luuuuuucy, you got some splainin' to doooooo!"

Here, I'll boil it down to barebones -- what makes your version so much superior to your predecessors? Don't you think your version smacks a bit of, well, "Look, world... <opens box of matches and strikes a match, holding the lighted match up for the world to see>... This is fire!"?

-Sean

 

[risky biz]

You grumpy old fart! Pocketpoint adds color to the forum. It's not like the guy threatens people or is a terrorist. Jeez... Ignore him and pass by the threads or comments you dislike the subject matter. It's a democracy! Chill out, hitler!

Really. Hitler in a diaper. What a bunch of crybabies.

It's obviously Pocketpoint's intention to raise hackles but it's also annoying to see the number of people who seem to be thrilled at the prospect of participating in a lynch mob.

 

[risky biz]

i can barely make out what you're trying to say. maybe not so much weed next time before you post.

At least he knows what capitalization is. Try some more education yourself before you start ranking other people's grammar.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Pocketpoint adds zero to the forum. At one point I counted 4 of his threads on the first page of the main forum--- each of which was specifically designed to knock, create an automatic backlash or say something totally flaming.

I voted to ban him, only because the guy is a troll. I never see him post ANYTHING positive, insightful, thought provoking, educational, etc.

I'd bet anything that he's 12 years old-- because that's the tone of every single one of his threads.

 

[sfleinen]

"If you didn't hear me the first time, let me repeat myself."

And, as a follow-on to my post (post #53), why did you post this (the below) twice? Is this a hint that it will be your "PocketPoint Guevara Manifesto" that you'll soon be distributing in leaflet form?

-Sean

Post #21:

Whoever wins the tournament, try to get them in action afterwards and play someone with the cash they won.

Have some room for spectators. The newer player can get a chance to see what a bigger money match is like.

They will have a nice place to sit and relax, eat, drink.

There is a good chance they will become enamored with the game after watching someone play for a hundred dollars or more.

THEY will want to be the person playing for the cash. THEY will begin to play more, buy a nicer cue.

They will gain the desire to compete, to become a diehard pool fan. The money they invest will go to the house, the local cuemaker etc.

They need to SEE PEOPLE IN ACTION. They need to see their friend win a tournament, and then gamble afterwards. They need to see what it's like to have 20 people watching one table where there is big money on the line.

That is how you hook a person on this game. That's how you bring them back to your pool hall, and to put in more table time.

They need to see REAL POOL. Some of them have never seen it before. They are playing some sort of other game that isn't even related to our sport.

Post #31:

Whoever wins the tournament, try to get them in action afterwards and play someone with the cash they won.

Have some room for spectators. The newer player can get a chance to see what a bigger money match is like.

They will have a nice place to sit and relax, eat, drink.

There is a good chance they will become enamored with the game after watching someone play for a hundred dollars or more.

THEY will want to be the person playing for the cash. THEY will begin to play more, buy a nicer cue.

They will gain the desire to compete, to become a diehard pool fan. The money they invest will go to the house, the local cuemaker etc.

They need to SEE PEOPLE IN ACTION. They need to see their friend win a tournament, and then gamble afterwards. They need to see what it's like to have 20 people watching one table where there is big money on the line.

That is how you hook a person on this game. That's how you bring them back to your pool hall, and to put in more table time.

They need to see REAL POOL. Some of them have never seen it before. They are playing some sort of other game that isn't even related to our sport.

 

[risky biz]

It's one thing to have opinions, but the community should still be respectable. People are saying that they let him speak due to freedom of speech but this isn't exactly a public forum. Someone quoted a moderator that we are all "guests" here. Even with your right to free speech there are limitations (i.e. can't yell "fire" in a movie theatre, can't use racial slurs at work). Can I start posting threads stating how certain ethnicities should not be allowed to play pool because their race is inferior? I suppose I could but that is in no way conducive to the community. When an individual contributes only to the detriment of the forum why is it so unimaginable to ban them? A violation of their rights? This is a commercial forum, the mods are free to ban whoever they want. This poll really makes no difference it only expresses the opinion of the group, whether or not they just want this guy to disappear.

The exact point is that his posts don't rise to anywhere near that level of unacceptability. He's just stirring up a bunch of crybabies who thought their little lynch mob would fly but it isn't.

 

[jason]

You are not violating the rules/TOS, therefore I voted "No." You are being incredibly annoying, yes, but violating rules? No.

I voted yes because this poll doesn't mean anything but an opinion. Only the mods have the power to remove him.

 

[peteypooldude]

I Voted yes , No need for the intentional abuse of the threads. Vacation may help change his antics .He may already be on thin ice

 

[jason]

I voted yes again to simulate his multiple posts on the same topic!

 

[Siz]

I voted no.

I have not read all PP's threads, but on the basis of what I have seen all I can say is that I disagree with a lot (but not all) of what PP has posted.

But having different views is not a bannable offence imho. Or as Voltaire probably never said: "I may disagree with what you say but will fight to the death for your right to say it" (or words to that effect). :wink:

 

[Mikjary]

PocketPoint,

I can only hope you're starting to realize that we don't need to be saved from ourselves. To each, his own in the pool world. Like all sports/activities, there are organized leagues for amateurs because their skill level is below the pro ranks. I don't like to watch sports, I like to participate.

The problem is your approach to what you believe in. If you want to get your message out and fuel a discussion, here's a tip...remove your foot from people's a$$es and proceed. Being the Energizer Bunny of posting makes readers suspect of any gems in your posts. Take a deep breath, think about that happy place and then type.

Best,
Mike

 

[justadub]

Pocketpoint adds zero to the forum. At one point I counted 4 of his threads on the first page of the main forum--- each of which was specifically designed to knock, create an automatic backlash or say something totally flaming.

I voted to ban him, only because the guy is a troll. I never see him post ANYTHING positive, insightful, thought provoking, educational, etc.

I'd bet anything that he's 12 years old-- because that's the tone of every single one of his threads.

Spidey, Pocket Point is really got to be another screen name for GetMeThere, getting his jollies. It's really the only answer.

 

[sfleinen]

Pocketpoint adds zero to the forum. At one point I counted 4 of his threads on the first page of the main forum--- each of which was specifically designed to knock, create an automatic backlash or say something totally flaming.

I voted to ban him, only because the guy is a troll. I never see him post ANYTHING positive, insightful, thought provoking, educational, etc.

I'd bet anything that he's 12 years old-- because that's the tone of every single one of his threads.

Dave:

And I tend to agree. I don't think I've seen anything from him that added value of any kind. It's one thing to express an opinion; it's quite another to belittle people that are fans / subscribers to the thing he's belittling. And to do it in a public forum, where the only people that will see it, are those fans/subscribers themselves. (That is to say, he's not reaching out to, say, the establishments that purchase bar tables or sponsor leagues to make changes *there*. No, he's applying the sting to those that enjoy leagues, in order to start sh!t.)

I participate in two leagues -- a 14.1 league, and an 8-ball league. I enjoy both. The 14.1 league is my "thinking man's night out," while the 8-ball league is my "thinking man who wants to let his hair down night out." Both leagues drag me out of the house (or away from my chair in front of racks of networking equipment at work) to go play, to patronize those pool establishments that bring me joy. Once I'm there, I get in the swing of things, really enjoy myself, and appreciate the fact that it was the league -- the responsibility and accountability to my team -- that forced me out of my chair and go play on a regular schedule.

So when PocketPoint disses leagues like this, and adds the usual "it's the truth because I said so, you should listen to me, I'm a revolutionary" stuff, I had to say something.

Still not a fan of outright banning someone for being an irritant. Rather, I think a little "prairie justice" -- i.e. the prairie dogs banding together and going after the lone problem prairie dog -- will do quite nicely. This is not lynching or lynch mobs; it's just sending the message. Hopefully he gets it.

-Sean

 

[jrt30004]

At least he knows what capitalization is. Try some more education yourself before you start ranking other people's grammar.

my education is fine. i don't type with caps on a forum because i don't care to. at least my posts are coherent.

 

[pt109]

I voted no.

I have not read all PP's threads, but on the basis of what I have seen all I can say is that I disagree with a lot (but not all) of what PP has posted.

But having different views is not a bannable offence imho. Or as Voltaire probably never said: "I may disagree with what you say but will fight to the death for your right to say it" (or words to that effect). :wink:

I'm with Siz and KC here.
Some posts are inane, some I don't even open....

..but if being a troll (in some eyes) is a bannable offense...
then feeding a troll should be the same.

There are many meaner posters that I enjoy reading, they make
you think and add spice to the forum.

if you think PocketPoint is pointless....DON'T RESPOND

 

[sfleinen]

Spidey, Pocket Point is really got to be another screen name for GetMeThere, getting his jollies. It's really the only answer.

Actually, I think he's DCP (DrCue'sProtege) in disguise. He could be logging in with DCP to visit and post to the "Ask the Instructor" forum, but switches to PocketPoint when visiting/posting here in the Main forum.

-Sean

 

[MikeM]

Ban him!

I've long had pp on ignore and I hate censorship and USUALLY never think someone should be banned for being an idiot..............BUT, this guy is the exception. I'm sure he's another poster's immature alter ego, but enough is enough.

Dudes gotta go!

 

[alstl]

Hello AZB ers,

bc it really begins to tease me already to see a new *senseless* thread from this person, i started my first poll ever. It is really so sad for this great board, that individuals like him are destroying all what a board like AZB has been built for.

And i m really praying that the admins will do something in the future.......

lg from overseas and keep shooting,

Ingo

What did he do to get banned?

 

[Wolven]

Have to vote 'NO' for several reasons. As in freedom of speach for one.

 

[risky biz]

Pocketpoint adds zero to the forum. At one point I counted 4 of his threads on the first page of the main forum--- each of which was specifically designed to knock, create an automatic backlash or say something totally flaming.

If he has that many threads on the first page it's because of the number of responses. It's his detractors who are putting him on the first page. This is a self-correcting problem. If they find his opinions so personally outrageous all they have to do is utilize the ignore feature of the forum.

The real problem is that his opinions appear to be hitting some sore points with some of the members and they're afraid his opinions will be convincing to others and that their counter-arguments won't be. In other words their real problem with him is not the supposed outrageousness of his opinions but the fact that there is some truth to them. So now they're resorting to trying to silence him so his opinions can't be seen by others.

There's no justification at all for banning Pocketpoint's slightly controversial opinions when the forum has an ignore feature.