If it was the US Open of Cleaning and Making Babies then the women would dominate ! :grin:
I'm kidding by the way Sunny and the rest of the women on AZ, lol.
I'm kidding by the way Sunny and the rest of the women on AZ, lol.
Should women be allowed to compete in US Open 9 Ball Championship?
- Thread starter sunnyday
- Start date
No worries, Fatboy, but promise to not get grossed out until after reading my whole post, think seriously about it and get the "FULL" image:wink:
WPBA = Women's Professional Billiard Association/ Tour
US Open 9 Ball = says "Open", nowhere does it say it's Men's US Open 9 Ball.
You argue that WPBA wouldn't let a man play because they would struggle, I beg to differ...
They DID A MAN JOIN THE TOUR ONCE; after he became a WOMAN!
If any man wants to join Women's Tour, no problem - Become a Woman legally and PHYSICALLY. True Story!!!
*** Fatboy, are you grossed out yet?
Love ya,:grin-devilish:
S.
Sunny, there have been a few "converts" down through the years in women's pool. And one of them even won a division at the BCA Amateur Championships a few years back! There was even one woman who converted the other way, although I'm not sure she/he had all the necessary equipment.
Just a little history lesson my dear. :wink:
Barry has done very well with US Open. What I mean it that Barry made the tournament the prestigious event that it is today and yes, he can do whatever he wants with it. I'm not saying he should do this or that... but it may bring in more money - for the players ... and for BARRY if women played too.
Did you hear that Barry? :grin:
S.
I understand but were not talking about bangers at the bar that only go to the open cuz they can afford it, and want to be able to see the lights and brag or have stories to tell. Not a knock to them tho because not everyone can be a cheiftan, gotta have little indians too.
well stated, many ask me why the men are better in general especially at the top level. I find women have a tendency to pick up the game easier than men if they want to learn, they are more patient, they listen better and naturally have some finesse. Men on the other hand seem to benefit greatly from the natural killer instinct. This definitely can be seen in 9 ball, as women play safe more, and men go for it more. The patience and natural finesse are what brought Jasmine that 3rd in the Straight pool worlds...
I don't think that will every really change for thats ingrained from evolution, but if the women played with the men more they would improve drastically. You can't beat someone if you never play them, your just stuck playing the same people so its hard to progress. Especially when it comes to that do or die attitude, which can become pretty heavy handed in 9 ball as far as I'm concerned, especially with those short races. So I agree eric let the women play the US OPEN, thats just more money for everyone, the players, vendors...everything.
G.G.
barrybehrman
U.S. Open Founder
First of all I hope that everyone that attended, played, supported and watched last week’s 34th Annual U.S. Open enjoyed everything. Thank you all for your support and I would like to thank our sponsors Diamond, Simonis, Aramith, Predator, Accu-Stats and Delta-13.
I have been reading many wonderful posts as 95 % of them are positive and I appreciate that. I would like to address why women are not currently playing in the U.S. Open and the answer is very simple. First, they have their own Women’s U.S. Open which is for women only. From 1983-1994 we conducted both men and women’s separated divisions. After 1994, the Men’s division grew so much that I only had enough space for the men’s event and therefore had to let the women’s event go. For 34 consecutive years the Men’s U.S. Open has been just that, men only. In 1998/1999 the W.P.B.A was formed and began their own tour of which one was U.S. Open, for women only.
Believe me; I would enjoy watching the likes of Allison Fisher, Jeanette Lee, Jasmin Ouschan, and many others. Many other sports have separate divisions for men and women such as the P.G.A tour, and the World Tennis Association.
Simply said, if the W.P.B.A would allow men to play in there majors it would be very possible that I would follow suit. So, if you want to see the women compete in next year’s U.S. Open email them and ask them why they will not allow men to play in their U.S. Open. If they decide to do so, more than likely I will strongly consider allowing the women to compete as well. That may be very cool and great for the game and especially for the fans of the game.
Ladies first Gentlemen, as my dad always said.
Barry Behrman
Founder and Promoter
U.S. Open 9-Ball Championships
I have been reading many wonderful posts as 95 % of them are positive and I appreciate that. I would like to address why women are not currently playing in the U.S. Open and the answer is very simple. First, they have their own Women’s U.S. Open which is for women only. From 1983-1994 we conducted both men and women’s separated divisions. After 1994, the Men’s division grew so much that I only had enough space for the men’s event and therefore had to let the women’s event go. For 34 consecutive years the Men’s U.S. Open has been just that, men only. In 1998/1999 the W.P.B.A was formed and began their own tour of which one was U.S. Open, for women only.
Believe me; I would enjoy watching the likes of Allison Fisher, Jeanette Lee, Jasmin Ouschan, and many others. Many other sports have separate divisions for men and women such as the P.G.A tour, and the World Tennis Association.
Simply said, if the W.P.B.A would allow men to play in there majors it would be very possible that I would follow suit. So, if you want to see the women compete in next year’s U.S. Open email them and ask them why they will not allow men to play in their U.S. Open. If they decide to do so, more than likely I will strongly consider allowing the women to compete as well. That may be very cool and great for the game and especially for the fans of the game.
Ladies first Gentlemen, as my dad always said.
Barry Behrman
Founder and Promoter
U.S. Open 9-Ball Championships
Thanks for responding Barry, it is appreciated. I need to point out however, that your comparison to the PGA Tour is not exactly valid. First off, the PGA tour does not have separate Men's and Women's divisions. The LPGA tour is a completely different and separate entity. Secondly, the PGA Tour is not a men only tour. In fact, IIRC nowhere in their charter is there any mention of gender. The PGA tour is actually open to anyone, male or female. Any woman who can qualify for the tour is welcome to compete. This is true in spite of the fact that there is a separate ladies tour in existence.
Now, the US Open Golf Championship is not a PGA Tour event, but rather is run by a different entity, the USGA. This tournament is also open to all players, male and female, who qualify in spite of the fact the USGA also holds a Women's U.S. Open Championship that is for women only.
I only mention this because if you are referencing how it is done in golf as part of your reasoning, then you may want to re-think allowing women to compete. Now, this doesn't mean that the WPBA would allow their players to compete in the event. And without that, the point is probably mute anyway.
Congratulations on another great tournament this year. :wink:
EDIT: BTW, welcome to AZB. Don't be a stranger.
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Hell yeah they should be allowed.
Barry,
DogsPlayingPool covered a lot of important points, Barry just as you did.
If I am reading what you wrote correctly, you would STRONGLY consider opening up the U.S. Open 9 Ball Championship to women IF the WPBA opened up their Women's Only U.S. Open 9 Ball Championship to men.
I don't see that happening but its good to see you have an open mind to the women participating in THE MOST POPULAR & PRESTIGIOUS PROFESSIONAL POOL EVENT IN THE WORLD.
Thanks again for your hard work, investment and the U.S. Open 9 Ball Championship. It's the crown jewel of pool in my opinion.
Joey Aguzin
Barry, I think your logic is highly flawed. Please read Post #97 of this thread to see why.
Mr. Aguzin,
What Mr. Behrman posted isn't showing an open mind. It is a nonsense argument.
First the WPBA doesn't speak for all women pool players in the world. What about all the great female talent that exists which are NOT associated with the WPBA? Doesn't it seem a little far fetched to exclude all women simply because of what the WPBA does?
Secondly Mr. Behrman already allows players to play which normally play in their own closed tournaments. Any male wheelchair player can play in the US Open and no able bodied person can play in the the WheelChair player's US Open.
Furthermore any APA player or C-class player who is a male can play in the US Open but the top ranked professionals are not allowed in their events.
The BCA has a list of grandmaster players who cannot play in their open divisions. Yet any player who happens to be a male can play in the US Open.
So it's not a tit-for-tat you allow our players to play and we will allow yours type of situation. Frankly I am disappointed that so well a respected tournament promoter would make that argument.
In my opinion this is purely a sexist situation. If Mr. Behrman is sincere then he should make an immediate decision to allow all non-WPBA players to play.
Otherwise he is discriminating against women simply and totally based on their gender and making the WPBA to be the scapegoat for his decision to discriminate. Furthermore he should be well aware that the WPBA only has the right to act on behalf of their members only, not to speak for women players worldwide.
Mr. Aguzin, you were recently involved in the Galveston event. Would you have supported a completely open event that mixed pros and rank amateurs as a way to run that event? In other words would you have expected the amateurs to show up in droves to donate money to the professionals? If you answer is that you support having class divisions then you also support the idea of the women being allowed to have their own class tournaments while also being allowed to "donate" to the events in which the upper class players are playing in.
In boxing and wrestling and other sports which do not require a qualification to participate athletes are allowed to compete in a higher class but higher class athletes are not allowed to go and compete in lower class tournaments.
Of course Mr. Behrman is correct that sports such as Tennis have separate divisions. This is simply because in that type of sport women are physically unable to compete with the men. In pool however the only thing holding women back is men who have the same attitude as Mr. Behrman. He is in the position to allow any woman the opportunity to attempt to compete alongside the men and yet he refuses to do so.
Is Kevin Trudeau a better man than Barry Behrman? After all Trudeau did allow women to compete with the men with the caveat that after year one they would have had to earn the right to stay on tour. As long as Mr. Behrman persists in calling his event the US Open then he should be the one who takes the first step and makes it truly OPEN. Then if the WPBA does not allow their players to play then it's them that are holding women back and not Mr. Behrman.
Thanks for responding Barry, it is appreciated. I need to point out however, that your comparison to the PGA Tour is not exactly valid. First off, the PGA tour does not have separate Men's and Women's divisions. The LPGA tour is a completely different and separate entity. Secondly, the PGA Tour is not a men only tour. In fact, IIRC nowhere in their charter is there any mention of gender. The PGA tour is actually open to anyone, male or female. Any woman who can qualify for the tour is welcome to compete. This is true in spite of the fact that there is a separate ladies tour in existence.
Now, the US Open Golf Championship is not a PGA Tour event, but rather is run by a different entity, the USGA. This tournament is also open to all players, male and female, who qualify in spite of the fact the USGA also holds a Women's U.S. Open Championship that is for women only.
I only mention this because if you are referencing how it is done in golf as part of your reasoning, then you may want to re-think allowing women to compete. Now, this doesn't mean that the WPBA would allow their players to compete in the event. And without that, the point is probably mute anyway.
Congratulations on another great tournament this year. :wink:
EDIT: BTW, welcome to AZB. Don't be a stranger.
Just want to have this post repeated. It's good information on how Golf works in regards to this debate.
i'm a little surprised to see this thread still going. been away from my computer for 3 days at mohegan sun. i think the best answer to the question asked in the title of this thread should be whats best for the sport. we need to stop these "well when we can play in their tourney they can play in ours" nonsense. whats best for the sport is a product that attracts fans (and sponsors and money). at mohegan sun there was a practice table set up in the public "mall" area so everyone could watch the pros warming up. about 3 pple watched mika warming up. it was just abour sro when allison was warming up. anecdotely (since i dont have attendance figures) the women's event appeared to be better attended than the men's event. letting woman who want to enter is better for the sport and that should be the only consideration here.
brian
brian
There is a men's US Open and a women's US Open. Would it be fair if the women were able to compete in both and the men only in one?
Most of the male players are barely surviving out there on the road and you want to give the women a crack at their money and not return the favor?
If you want to claim "sexism" then you must argue that the men can play in the women's tournament as well for it to be valid... how hard is that to understand?
Lastly I take offense to the comparisons you made between Barry Behrman and Kevin Trudeau.. those little cheap shots show a lack of class. Mr. Behrman has done more for the sport of pool than almost anyone on the planet... he gives his heart wholly to the sport each year and puts on the best tournament in the world. His name is synonymous with pool, who the hell are you?
Most of the male players are barely surviving out there on the road and you want to give the women a crack at their money and not return the favor?
If you want to claim "sexism" then you must argue that the men can play in the women's tournament as well for it to be valid... how hard is that to understand?
Lastly I take offense to the comparisons you made between Barry Behrman and Kevin Trudeau.. those little cheap shots show a lack of class. Mr. Behrman has done more for the sport of pool than almost anyone on the planet... he gives his heart wholly to the sport each year and puts on the best tournament in the world. His name is synonymous with pool, who the hell are you?
Can the men play on their tour?
Yes. It's fair. As has been stated Mr. Behrman has no objection to taking money from players who are allowed to play in tournaments that are closed off to the top professionals. Is if fair that John Q Player who is a B-class player is allowed to play in the BCAPL open division with a chance to win the larger prize while the top players like Johnny Archer are kept out?
Why should John Q Player have the opportunity to cash at the US Open and to take out Johnny Archer when Johnny can't go enter the B-class tournament and rob it?
This is beside the point. The plain facts are that the US Open has a large percentage of participants who have day jobs. They are also taking a crack at the money.
Also since the popular consensus is that the women would have little to no chance to win or even place high then it's hardly a "favor" to allow them to spend $600 ($2000+ with related expenses) going up against the best players on the planet. I am pretty sure that the majority of the men would welcome the extra money in the prize fund.
I must? It's hard to understand because I am relating this from an athletic standpoint and a social one.
Let's see if I can put this in another perspective for you that may be easier to understand.
If you had a group of pool players with Down's Syndrome and they formed a league for player's with Down's Syndrome to establish who the best pool player of the player's in their league with Down's Syndrome were then you would certainly see it as reasonable that this league would not allow people who didn't have Down's Syndrome to compete in it.
Then if the Down's Syndrome group decided to send their best (male) player to the US Open he would be allowed to play with not any problem whatsoever. In fact since the only criteria to play in the US Open is that you have an Adam's apple and $600 it would be against Federal Law to keep him out of the event.
So if you agree that the Down's Player is allowed to play without any consideration that there should be a reciprocal allowance that Mika Immonen be allowed to compete in the Down's league then you should also see the logic in allowing the women to have their own league which does not allow men. The men can also have their own league which does not allow women, in fact it exists and is called the UPA.
But we are discussing a single event called the US Open, which in fact is not open.
Cheap shot? Did Trudeau allow men and women an equal playing field or not? All other things about Trudeau aside the fact is that the competitive setup he established would have certainly addressed the question of whether women could be competitive with the men, even though the odds were still stacked against them due to the numbers. At least Trudeau didn't bar them from competing just because they are women. This is the crux of Mr. Behrman's argument because he does allow players from otherwise closed tours to play in his event as long as they are male and have the entry fee.
Who I am doesn't matter. What I have to say is what matters. Mr. Behrman chose to address us here and present his reasoning. As such he should be treated with respect and be open to hearing viewpoints from all sides. His stature as a promoter is clear. It's also clear that he has the distinction of holding the longest running continuous championship event. Now he has the opportunity to make history again by making the Open truly OPEN.
The world is not the same as it was in 1995, or in 1998. The caliber of the women has dramatically risen and there are top women players all over the world who are not affiliated with the WPBA. By making his excuse not to allow women to play because the WPBA US Open is not open to men he discriminates against women all over the world. On that score Kevin Trudeau is one up on Barry Behrman in my eyes. Trudeau said that his tour was open to any player who could qualify and maintain standing.
The US Open should stand as the greatest 9-Ball event in the United States and Barry Behrman should secure his place in history by allowing all human beings to participate in it.