Sure, but not having a men's tour or having it be problematic has nothing to do IMO with the US Open. That's two separate issues.
It's like a kid who's balloon popped so he makes sure he pops everyone else's so no one can have one.
Should women be allowed to compete in US Open 9 Ball Championship?
- Thread starter sunnyday
- Start date
Sure, but not having a men's tour or having it be problematic has nothing to do IMO with the US Open. That's two separate issues.
It's like a kid who's balloon popped so he makes sure he pops everyone else's so no one can have one.
hdgis1
New member
I keep seeing all this stuff about women players being inferior...Why is that? Hell - we aren't talking about football here!
Is it possible that they haven't had the opportunity to compete in events with 'better' players? There may be no immediate benefit to women playing in the men's, but what about 10 years from now when they have had the opportunity to 'toughen' their skin?
As far as I am concerned, segregated tours in the pool world are ridiculous!
Is it possible that they haven't had the opportunity to compete in events with 'better' players? There may be no immediate benefit to women playing in the men's, but what about 10 years from now when they have had the opportunity to 'toughen' their skin?
As far as I am concerned, segregated tours in the pool world are ridiculous!
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does everyone have that short a memory?
without looking it up-i believe the wpba pulled the women from
competing on anything other than wpba sanctioned events years ago
so first thing here should be why doesnt the wpba allow women to compete outside of their events?
it weakens its product-if you want to watch womens pool you pay for it .if you want to see allison play karen or anyone else you pay
wanna see dennis hatch,ginky,mika tony robles or any other pro player
go to the local event in his town or area buy a soda in that poolroom
and be a railbird.
the open is a pretty tall order for all including the top players
so dont be under the impression that these men or barry are not open to bigger purses
ps im not alergic to punctuation-i just like messing with your reading rythym
without looking it up-i believe the wpba pulled the women from
competing on anything other than wpba sanctioned events years ago
so first thing here should be why doesnt the wpba allow women to compete outside of their events?
it weakens its product-if you want to watch womens pool you pay for it .if you want to see allison play karen or anyone else you pay
wanna see dennis hatch,ginky,mika tony robles or any other pro player
go to the local event in his town or area buy a soda in that poolroom
and be a railbird.
the open is a pretty tall order for all including the top players
so dont be under the impression that these men or barry are not open to bigger purses
ps im not alergic to punctuation-i just like messing with your reading rythym
Sunny, at the 1992 U.S. Open (17th Annual Sept 16-20, 1992 at the Holiday Inn in Chesapeake VA) there were two seperate divisions...one for the men and one for the women! I have the program from that event and there were 64 men on the mens roster and 32 women on the womens roster. Mens first place paid $15k and the women's first place paid $5k. I'm not sure why Barry stopped the women's event but it may have something to do with the WPBA..not sure.
Curly
Let them play. Only a few of them will make some noise. I know Jasmin Ouschan did well in the world 10 ball I believe.
Probably the biggest reason is that the population of women pool players is so small relative to the men that men are apt to dominate at the world class level. It is also may be due to men, perhaps having marginally more power, make more balls on the break on average or make a ball more often, but I don't know this to be true although interestingly a woman (Jasmin O.) has done particularly well against men in the straight pool. Perhaps the men practice & play more.
However, and I have no clue why this may be, but in golf at the tour level men are considered to have better short games (those shots not involving a power advantage) than the women.
Putting Average: LPGA leader averages 28.36 putts per round. PGA leader average is 27.96 and there are 17 guys on tour that average as good as or better than the LPGA leader.
Sand Saves (minimum of 10): LPGA leader averaged 54.8%. The PGA leader averaged 64.43% with 43 men on tour at or better than the LPGA leader average.
Putts per Greens in Regulation: LPGA leader 1.75. PGA leader 1.73% with 43 guys as good or better than the ladies leader.
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blah blah
Shoebat
hold up. Focus.
To sum it up, without getting into who plays better than whom in detailed freaking minutiae, Dallas cheerleaders, how they do it in golf, or any lists of who actually does or runs what, do we agree on the basic points:
--There is no true US Open.
--Women can't play in the US Open because:
--it's limited to men
--the WPBA wouldn't LET women play in it even if they were allowed to by the men.
--The Women's Open isn't actually "Open" to all women because there are strong restrictions (pros, qualifiers, and invitation only).
--Men aren't allowed in the Women's Open, which makes it even less "open" than it already is.
--Any "US Open" is so titled not because of the nationality of the players but because it is played on American soil.
If those things are agreed, THEN we can talk about whether change is good.
To sum it up, without getting into who plays better than whom in detailed freaking minutiae, Dallas cheerleaders, how they do it in golf, or any lists of who actually does or runs what, do we agree on the basic points:
--There is no true US Open.
--Women can't play in the US Open because:
--it's limited to men
--the WPBA wouldn't LET women play in it even if they were allowed to by the men.
--The Women's Open isn't actually "Open" to all women because there are strong restrictions (pros, qualifiers, and invitation only).
--Men aren't allowed in the Women's Open, which makes it even less "open" than it already is.
--Any "US Open" is so titled not because of the nationality of the players but because it is played on American soil.
If those things are agreed, THEN we can talk about whether change is good.
the us open is a quality pool tournament but it is not a major world event like the us open golf tournament. it needs to open the field to all players that think they can win.the open director needs to present the attitude of the tournament, that here is the number one prize in pool and a place in history.anybody can come try to get it.with internet streaming increasing in strength and pool being all over the world.this would be a good time to establish some higher standards of the game.
bill
bill
Bill,
The U.S. Open is OPEN to any male player anywhere. No one is barred, be they filipino, Taiwanese, European or whatever. There were players from 26 countries there this year!
P.S. Efren Reyes has never won the U.S Open.
Actually the US Open does not crown the national champion either. It's just provides us with a winner of an internationally attended pool tournament.
The national champion would need to be contested among ONLY players who are citizens of the nation. Ideally it would be contested between the 52 state champions. This is what CSI is trying to do I think.
The Chinese national table tennis champion will NEVER be anything other than a Chinese citizen for example.
Mass makes Class. That is the ONLY reason why men play better than women on average. Start from zero and take 100,000 men and 100,000 women and train them all exactly the same as pool players then you will have roughly the same average skill level among each group.
Who knows the real figure but I estimate that the ratio of serious male players to serious females is on the order of 100:1. This puts women as a group at a disadvantage in two serious ways. One is that they don't have the numbers to pull great players from. What are the odds that if you take 100 guys and start them from zero with intense training that say 5 of them will turn out to be great players? Now start with just ONE woman and give her the same training? What are the odds that she will turn out to be a great player? Even if 5 guys end up being world class and that one woman ended up being world class she would still be outnumbered 5:1 in any tournament that she was ALLOWED to play with them in.
The second disadvantage is how women are treated in the poolroom. Because there are not as many of them playing then they are not treated like guys and have to work extra hard for acceptance. They are coddled and given separate divisions, lower entry fees, and the STUPIDEST OF ALL extra bonus money for highest finishing woman. They are not treated equally and a lot of women walk the line of accepting the favors because they are a woman and demanding no special treatment. This harms the cause.
Seriously if you went to a regional event and the field was half women and half men and everyone played decently then the men wouldn't think anything of it. But let there be just two women there and all the guys are thinking, who is she, how does she play, hope I don't draw her, hope I do draw her, nice ass, she looks like a dyke, where's her boyfriend, should I give her some advice.....and so on.
That's why women as a class of player are still inferior to men on average.
Having said that I think Kelly Fisher can hang with any man on the planet in tournament play and with a good number of them in backroom play. And no I am not looking to bet to prove it. I am in China and not able to arrange matches or be a part of any matchups. Those of you who want to gamble know just who to get in touch with to play Kelly and some players who one would think would not hesitate have turned down offers to play Kelly so it's not like EVERY top player is ready to take her on. And no I am not naming names because that information was given to me in private and it's not my place to divulge it. However those of you who know Kelly's backer can probably get that info if you want it. Kelly's skill is above the average. I guarantee you she isn't a soft draw in the "men's" US Open.
Reyes won in 1994, beating Varner in the finals.
I have the Accu-stats video of that match and Efren played great. I wonder if anyone has finished second in the Open more times than Efren has?
James
The US Open is the only national championship we have. Its the same as the US Open golf championship which is billed as "our national championship" and is open to anyone from anywhere. Just because it's open to other countries does not mean it's not our national championship.
I think....................
I think there should be a big lawsuit with Harry Platis, the Seattle Washington attorney and pool player as one of the attorneys probably for the plaintiff.
There should be lots of controversy with the plaintiff threatening to shut down the U.S. OPen 9 Ball Championship. The defendant (Barry Behrman) could go into court with his little pooch on a leash, alternatingly holding the little poochie in his arms, representing himself, with tears in his eyes, pleading his case.
The witnesses could have men of the cloth like Iwan Simonis, Mark Griffin, Greg Sullivan, JR Calvert, a relative newbie to the scene like OB Cues' Royce Bunnell, a former U.S. Open 9 Ball Champion or two, several WPBA members but especially a show stopper like Jeanette Lee, decked out ala Black Widow style all testifying in a court run by Judge Judy. Barry would think that he is a shoe in with Judge Judy.
Jeanette wouldn't be looking so all-fired guaranteed confident, but she would still be looking pretty hot. :grin: Jeanette knows how to sell the sizzle.
Of course, all of this would be filmed for television and there would be lots of advertising dollars that would be funneled back in to the U.S. Open 9 Ball Championship, making it bigger and better than ever.
Barry would lose the case; he would shed crocodile tears for television and would be secretly recorded rejoicing in priviate, exclaiming about all of his good fortune and how it is time to turn the page of history for the U.S. Open 9 Ball Championship, all the while talking on the cell phone to his attorney, grinning and smiling, asking "Just how much money are we talking about?". :dance:
JoeyA
I think there should be a big lawsuit with Harry Platis, the Seattle Washington attorney and pool player as one of the attorneys probably for the plaintiff.
There should be lots of controversy with the plaintiff threatening to shut down the U.S. OPen 9 Ball Championship. The defendant (Barry Behrman) could go into court with his little pooch on a leash, alternatingly holding the little poochie in his arms, representing himself, with tears in his eyes, pleading his case.
The witnesses could have men of the cloth like Iwan Simonis, Mark Griffin, Greg Sullivan, JR Calvert, a relative newbie to the scene like OB Cues' Royce Bunnell, a former U.S. Open 9 Ball Champion or two, several WPBA members but especially a show stopper like Jeanette Lee, decked out ala Black Widow style all testifying in a court run by Judge Judy. Barry would think that he is a shoe in with Judge Judy.
Jeanette wouldn't be looking so all-fired guaranteed confident, but she would still be looking pretty hot. :grin: Jeanette knows how to sell the sizzle.Of course, all of this would be filmed for television and there would be lots of advertising dollars that would be funneled back in to the U.S. Open 9 Ball Championship, making it bigger and better than ever.
Barry would lose the case; he would shed crocodile tears for television and would be secretly recorded rejoicing in priviate, exclaiming about all of his good fortune and how it is time to turn the page of history for the U.S. Open 9 Ball Championship, all the while talking on the cell phone to his attorney, grinning and smiling, asking "Just how much money are we talking about?". :dance:
JoeyA
blah blah
Shoebat
I wholeheartedly agree with every word above. Wholeheartedly. Whole 'nother subject, I know, but the gimmicks used to get women to play weekly tourneys are both condescending and they encourage us to be lazy and not try as hard. Play good enough, but no better.
Highest place woman finisher, cheaper entry than men, automatic bye in the first round when available... All we have to do is show up and we have a serious chance of some getting money back.
AND THEN- try as hard as you can to be treated equally, on grown up terms, no flirting or hugging just play dammit, and rumors start flying that you're gay! Now how self- conscious would THAT make ANYone feel?
So shall I do my nails before the tourney, or shall I practice. It actually becomes a question.
Dont get mad at me until You FINISH reading this post.
Girls and boys are not equal, not at all. Thje girls are better at somethings in life and the boys are better at others. Boys and girls arnt equal they are different, and both sexes should be proud of what they are best at.
And since the sexes are different not equal, I see not reason not to have the girls play in any pool tournment they wish.(most of the time) same goes for men think WPBA.
It cant work the other way because the WPBA would struggle with men playing in it, and there is nothing wrong with a womans only tournment, there is nothing wrong with a mans only tournment, I just believe that the "Big one" shouldnt be a mens only tournment-as its not a true test of ALL people. For it to be the US Open-the girls shoild be allowed into it because its the big one.
hows that?????
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Agree with you here, there are a ton of great female players...the pool table is about the greatest equalizer there is.....women can play as well as the men......granted, sex does sell, and attractive females is a draw for audiences, whether we like it or not....