Simplified CTE

[JB Cases]

Did Hal call all pro players liars when he said they don't look at ghost balls or contact points ?
Did Rodney lie when he taught ghost ball aiming system instead of overlap ?

We can play this game like you play.

Yes, if a pro was on record as saying that they only aimed using ghost ball/contact points and Hal claimed otherwise then he was in fact calling that pro a liar on that point.

Are you calling Shane Van Boeing and Tyler Styer liars based on their clear public statements about what methods of aiming they say that they use?

Are you saying that both of these professional players are deliberately misleading the public on this subject?

 

[JoeyInCali]

Using a solid method of aiming even on "simple" shots develops an excellent and consistent pre-shot routine. The aiming, using a good solid objective method, is done in a matter of seconds with full confidence.
Willie Mosconi allegedly said to a fan asking for advice, "don't miss". You ask why would someone "need" an aiming system on a simple shot?

Because Willie Mosconi also said in response to a question of what do pros know that amateurs don't, "pros know that there are no easy shots."

No shit ?
Coming from you that's gold .
You were two-stroking low percentage shots in your demo and because you were using a magic system, you expected them to go in .

Mosconi shot on those 5-inch corners easily millions of times . They were easy shots .

On that Shane picture, he lines up the right angle of approach to the ball .
All he needed to do after that was to make sure he hit the cb dead center with a proper stroke .

 

[JoeyInCali]

Yes, if a pro was on record as saying that they only aimed using ghost ball/contact points and Hal claimed otherwise then he was in fact calling that pro a liar on that point.

Are you calling Shane Van Boeing and Tyler Styer liars based on their clear public statements about what methods of aiming they say that they use?

Are you saying that both of these professional players are deliberately misleading the public on this subject?

So was Hal a loony or the pros are liars ?
Was Hal lying when he claimed Efren took aiming lessons from him ?

 

[JB Cases]

Have you seen the video of Shane explaining his aiming system ? HAVE YOU ?

I'm in OC and quit playing competitively more than a decade ago after starting making cues .

Are you in the pro tour ? Pulling some rank because you're a pro ?

Have you ever actually been competitive in pool? For someone that doesn't have skin in the game you sure spend a lot of your time arguing about how to play and defaming anyone whom you choose to target.

And how many cues do you make really? I find it to be sad when a person gets into the billiard business because they loved to play and then stops playing because they are in the business.

I used to make a joke where I said if you love to play don't get in the business.

I think if I quit playing I would need to not be in the pool industry. I just love to spend time in the table controlling that little rectangular universe as well as I can for as long as I can. Pool is challenging and fun and I genuinely feel bad for those that quit playing or don't enjoy it.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Have you ever actually been competitive in pool? For someone that doesn't have skin in the game you sure spend a lot of your time arguing about how to play and defaming anyone whom you choose to target.

And how many cues do you make really? I find it to be sad when a person gets into the billiard business because they loved to play and then stops playing because they are in the business.

I used to make a joke where I said if you love to play don't get in the business.

I think if I quit playing I would need to not be in the pool industry. I just love to spend time in the table controlling that little rectangular universe as well as I can for as long as I can. Pool is challenging and fun and I genuinely feel bad for those that quit playing or don't enjoy it.

For someone who's lost tens of thousands you sure spend a lot of time promoting a better aiming system that's cost you tens of thousands . Last one was to a 590 fargo . If he told you how to aim, does that make his system better ? After he beat you some 3 dozen games total.

I make A LOT MORE CUES than you think . Get a lot more shaft orders and repairs than you think.

I didn't say I quit playing. I just don't play tournaments anymore .
And I'm not telling people how to play any more than Fiejn, Lowry , Mark Wilson and Breisath .
They don't promote a complicated system that takes years to learn and then new service packs come out .
They SIMPLIFY THE GAME .
There is no magic pill. You believe in it . Your deleted demo videos proved it .

 

[JB Cases]

No shit ?
Coming from you that's gold .
You were two-stroking low percentage shots in your demo and because you were using a magic system, you expected them to go in .

Mosconi shot on those 5-inch corners easily millions of times . They were easy shots .

On that Shane picture, he lines up the right angle of approach to the ball .
All he needed to do after that was to make sure he hit the cb dead center with a proper stroke .

Yep, in the demos I need to learn to really bear down because when you're in shooting position viewers want successful results to validate the concept being discussed.

I admit to being lazy in some shot sequences. But overall the point is made and I am happy to say that I receive thanks often from viewers who took the time to listen to the context of the discussion instead of looking for snippets to create a collection for "gotcha" attempts.

Maybe you should do an uncut video on ghost ball for everyone doing the same shots I was shooting and we can compare ball paths in slow motion.

 

[JB Cases]

For someone who's lost tens of thousands you sure spend a lot of time promoting a better aiming system that's cost you tens of thousands . Last one was to a 590 fargo . If he told you how to aim, does that make his system better ? After he beat you some 3 dozen games total.

I make A LOT MORE CUES than you think . Get a lot more shaft orders and repairs than you think.

I didn't say I quit playing. I just don't play tournaments anymore .

Win or lose the method of aiming is just one part of the game. I have never gambled with anyone where I felt that using an aiming system was the one thing that gave me an insurmountable edge.

Aiming is one part of the process and execution is the other part. Then the game demands mastery of strategy, kicking, jumping, safety play, speed control, controlling nerves, etc...

But you know this already. Yeah I lost a couple matches that were created because of aiming system arguments. The important part is that I stepped up and got in the box with players my speed or even a little better and gave it a shot.

I am not a yapping dog barking from the porch and I am not a troll who doesn't play competitively telling others how to play and slandering those who are trying to help players get better.

590 Fargo and a 610 are very close and if one is playing at a lower level for a variety of factors then it can absolutely happen that the higher rated player can lose. The 590 can also play better than their rating. It happens all the time that for a given range of games s person plays above their established rating. A rating is an average performance score over time not an absolute pinnacle of performance capability.

Does my performance as a player validate or invalidate anything about how to play pool? Does a method become valid/invalid based on individual performance records of the user? If so how would we chart this?

I mean I am not saying that performance data isn't potentially useful in this discussion but if we are going to discuss efficacy in terms of individual performance then we need to establish some baseline criteria.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Win or lose the method of aiming is just one part of the game. I have never gambled with anyone where I felt that using an aiming system was the one thing that gave me an insurmountable edge.

Aiming is one part of the process and execution is the other part. Then the game demands mastery of strategy, kicking, jumping, safety play, speed control, controlling nerves, etc...

But you know this already. Yeah I lost a couple matches that were created because of aiming system arguments. The important part is that I stepped up and got in the box with players my speed or even a little better and gave it a shot.

I am not a yapping dog barking from the porch and I am not a troll who doesn't play competitively telling others how to play and slandering those who are trying to help players get better.

590 Fargo and a 610 are very close and if one is playing at a lower level for a variety of factors then it can absolutely happen that the higher rated player can lose. The 590 can also play better than their rating. It happens all the time that for a given range of games s person plays above their established rating. A rating is an average performance score over time not an absolute pinnacle of performance capability.

Does my performance as a player validate or invalidate anything about how to play pool? Does a method become valid/invalid based on individual performance records of the user? If so how would we chart this?

I mean I am not saying that performance data isn't potentially useful in this discussion but if we are going to discuss efficacy in terms of individual performance then we need to establish some baseline criteria.

Yes, it does when you hype the crap out of that system . Claiming it raised your game to some two balls better and have resulted in some quantum leap .
That system then become a hindrance to your game when you spend more time mastering it instead of trashing it and spending more time in what really matters MORE in the game .
I equate that to some who are stuck in Aikido or Kung Fu instead of trashing them and going to an MMA school .

 

[The_JV]

For A it is near (right on?) C and for C it is off the face of the ob. Not very objective. I think Stan has a little piece of paper to gauge how far off the ob the aim line is for the C perception. You have to practice knowing where the aim line goes.

Exactly the point in the videos where started scratching my head

 

[BC21]

I’d have to disagree with that. He definitely sweeps the cue in from the side.

As do I and almost every other player in the world. We hold our cue out of the way in order to look at the aim line, the ghost ball, the tangent line, the contact point, the fractional aim, the cte perception, or whatever else players use for aiming. Then we align our body to what we're looking at and bring the cue into the mix from the side.

Unless a player has a robotic style habit of holding the cue directly in front of them, which I have seen from time to time, the cue will always have to be swept sideways into position for the shot.

Here...my cue always sweeps left to right coming to cb addess. Does this mean I'm using CTE and just don't know it. Of course not.

 

[Dan White]

I've watched him quite a bit, and many times from only 15 to 20 away. He looks straight through the cb, visualizing the aim line, then steps into that line and shoots. Just watched him last week in Vegas.

Shane gets his aim line, aligns his body and stance to that line, then shoots. He doesn't align his body and stance to a slightly off line and then sweep or pivot to the aim line. His method seems to involve knowing the aim line from the beginning, not discovering it while sweeping or pivoting to it from an offset alignment.

Silly you. Haven't you heard of disguised pivoting? He's faking you out so you don't learn his secret tricks, other than the one about playing 12 hours a day for his entire life.

 

[Dan White]

Using a solid method of aiming even on "simple" shots develops an excellent and consistent pre-shot routine. The aiming, using a good solid objective method, is done in a matter of seconds with full confidence.
Willie Mosconi allegedly said to a fan asking for advice, "don't miss". You ask why would someone "need" an aiming system on a simple shot?

Because Willie Mosconi also said in response to a question of what do pros know that amateurs don't, "pros know that there are no easy shots."

Nothing alleged about it. That was his standard answer to questions such as "What's the most important thing?".

 

[cookie man]

You're the nut .
You have not seen the video and you're assuming you know what Shane said .

The thread got derailed when someone made a claim how Shane aims .
And if you haven't been paying attention, all threads here get eventually derailed .
You contributed to the derailment of this one too .

For the record the claim was Shane aims from an offset and sweeps into the shot. NO CLAIM THAT HE USES CTE.

 

[cookie man]

As do I and almost every other player in the world. We hold our cue out of the way in order to look at the aim line, the ghost ball, the tangent line, the contact point, the fractional aim, the cte perception, or whatever else players use for aiming. Then we align our body to what we're looking at and bring the cue into the mix from the side.

Unless a player has a robotic style habit of holding the cue directly in front of them, which I have seen from time to time, the cue will always have to be swept sideways into position for the shot.

Here...my cue always sweeps left to right coming to cb addess. Does this mean I'm using CTE and just don't know it. Of course not.

What you do and what Shane does is entirely different. And who said anything about Shane and CTE, certainly not me.

 

[JB Cases]

So was Hal a loony or the pros are liars ?
Was Hal lying when he claimed Efren took aiming lessons from him ?

I wouldn't know if hal was lying, however the question of whether he did discuss aiming was taken up in the the thread you posted and according to someone who said Hal did teach Efren after calling Hal to get confirmation Hal is reported to have said he did not ever meet Efren. So based on that I would say that Hal did not claim to have taught Efren.

As for the pros, as I said if a pro publicly claimed to aim one way and anyone disputes them then they are effectively calling that pro a liar. If a pro has not made any such public statement then a claim that they aim a certain way is speculation unless the claimant has some evidence other than their claim.

I personally don't care because for me the only thing that matters is whether a method presented works to my satisfaction. My mom always said to me when I wanted to do something and I used the justification that everyone was doing it, "if everyone was jumping off a cliff would you follow them?"

So when someone says a pro is doing XYZ I pay attention and think about it and if it sounds like something I would like to try then I go ahead and try it for myself.

If possible I ask pros about things attributed to them when it matters to me to know what the pro has to say about it. I have done this with many pros. Two of them told me they don't want to talk about how they aim, Archer and Efren.

Bottom line.... The fact is that the method itself is what has to stand and fall on its own merits and one way to gather information on how effective it might be is to listen to current users from amateurs to pros.

 

[JB Cases]

Yes, it does when you hype the crap out of that system . Claiming it raised your game to some two balls better and have resulted in some quantum leap .
That system then become a hindrance to your game when you spend more time mastering it instead of trashing it and spending more time in what really matters MORE in the game .
I equate that to some who are stuck in Aikido or Kung Fu instead of trashing them and going to an MMA school .

That's your opinion. You have zero clue how I played before learning aiming from hal and later CTE, you don't know all of my experiences only a few public ones.

Maybe a person likes akido and enjoys it. If they wanted to fight mma then akido isn't enough.

Bruce Lee said try everything and keep what works. CTE works and so I keep it.

 

[JB Cases]

Nothing alleged about it. That was his standard answer to questions such as "What's the most important thing?".

I didn't hear Willie say it and I don't remember him saying it in his books so I say allegedly because I remember it being attributed to him. Once I see proof of him saying it or an article directly quoting him I will say Willie said from that point on.

 

[lfigueroa]

Why in the world would he need an aiming system on that shot ?
If you placed that setup in the opposite side, he'd make that shot with his stick behind his back .
Once he lines up that shot while stood up , all he needs to do is to go straight down to the center of the cue ball .
That's not even a good candidate for lining up the side of the ferrule because the center of the tip pointing a little to the right of the contact point does the job. His peripheral vision can also tell if his shaft is on the right angle .

You really need to watch the video how he explains it .

I agree.

I doubt that he is doing anything related to aiming. He's looking at the shot deciding where he wants the CB and how much speed and spin (if any) he'll use. The aiming is baked into his PSR.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I’d have to disagree with that. He definitely sweeps the cue in from the side.

So?

They just naturally carry and walk around the table with their cue that way. Players stand at the table with the cue out to one side or the other then bring it to their bridge hand.

Sweep, sheep.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JoeyInCali]

So?

They just naturally carry and walk around the table with their cue that way. Players stand at the table with the cue out to one side or the other then bring it to their bridge hand.

Sweep, sheep.

Lou Figueroa

I really wonder about Hal and the Houligans' sanity sometimes.
Hal supposedly warned Stan in not matching up Landon against someone who looks like he sweeps or takes that cue from the side . Really? It's magic or something ?
Of all the things . you could watch for, that one is some kind of magic tool and you should watch for it ?

And when someone bridges on the center of the cue ball then takes grip hand to center, hey it's a pivot!
Sweep Sheep!