SJM Slant on the 2016 Mosconi Cup

Hopefully there are no Mosconi Cup qualifying points awarded in any bar table tournament in 2017, there will be no easy way to make the team. Either fly out and play all the big 9' events or you don't make the team. Why should they be awarded a free $10,000 just because they went to a local bar table tourney and beat a couple amateurs to get Mosconi points.

I would love to buy my ticket for next year in Vegas again, but if something doesn't change then I won't be there or support in any other way.

And don't tell me money is an issue, guys like Bergman/Woodward/Hall are always in these "$20,000 in the middle" matches every week and constantly gambling. What are they doing with the winnings? Oh right, entering another 2-man tournament.
 
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JC said:
Ah but where are you going to get the money for it?

We all know the gap between what would be ideal training circumstances and the reality of every day life in the American professional players world. How many of our players would play much more all over the world if they could afford it? It's the fighting for table scraps that forces them onto bar boxes way too much.

It's all about money Jay and until and unless you solve that, you're just as doomed as the last well intentioned coach has been. The good news is that the sport is so broke, it won't take much more than one multimillionaire mentor to quantum leap it. I suggest you find that person or be prepared for failure. I recall one such dreamer getting chewed up and spit out just a few years back by the status quo.

JC
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I have resources and a plan.
 
Kris_b1104 said:
Hopefully there are no Mosconi Cup qualifying points awarded in any bar table tournament in 2017, there will be no easy way to make the team. Either fly out and play all the big 9' events or you don't make the team. Why should they be awarded a free $10,000 just because they went to a local bar table tourney and beat a couple amateurs to get Mosconi points. ...
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9 of the 28 points events were played on 7-foot tables, including all 4 of the 8-Ball events. Eliminating points earned in those 9 events, we have:

1. Van Boening, Shane.....290
2. Dechaine, Mike.....212
3. Dominguez, Oscar.....149
4. Morris, Rodney.....145
5. Wilkie, Shaun.....123
6. Shuff, Brandon.....118
7. Bergman, Justin.....101
T8. Woodward, Skyler.....83
T8. Roberts, Josh.....83
T8. Lombardo, Hunter.....83
 
Cezar Morales said:
You want the solution as to why Americam players cant handle pressure n are not fundementally sound.



Make a trip to taiwan, go to the local pool halls from the north to the south and check out the pool training system n u wld realize how soft n naive merican players are.



You will see RECREATIONAL players practicing straight-in shot on 3 inch pockets making a hundred a day, practicing jump and kicking shots, you see players discussing n sharing strengths n weakness .

When i stress "recreation", these are players who know they will never make it pro but just do so to perfect their love for the game.



Now when u go to those pool training schools, you see 14 yr old middle school kids ( boys or gals ) already able to comprehending getting shape for the 3rd ball , thus breaking n running a couple racks easily , oh.. did i mention on virgin pocket sizes too.



How do u think Wu chia ching won the world 9ball at 16 n make the rest of the grown adult field look like a joke !



Also , standard of living is considerably lower compared to states.



I think sending them young dogs to taiwan or philipines to live for a period of time will do a lota good for their game n make them realize how backwards their game is.

Kim ga young and a couple of japanese pros hone their skills for yrs n Darren lived in the philipines for a period too and see what it did for their game.



Now take my words with a pinch of salt , i could get a couple retired pros n current house pros in their 40's or 50's n Bergman sky or mike gonna need some weight .

Yes thats how bad it is..
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I think you're right - it's the training. The mindset for how to train. What to train. Especially train a team to think, discuss, strategize and conquer. ALL elements are important for a MC style of play with rotating team members. Has anyone thought of having a great sports psychologist / motivator on the team staff as well? Yeah - most personalities could use a little help there as well. Never hurts.

K.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I worked with a couple of Sport Psychologists over the last decade on my own personal game.

A few years ago, I even had the stones to ask one of them if they would consider coaching the USA American Team on their mental game, pro bono. While he said he would be honored to coach the USA Mosconi Cup Team he wouldn't do it for free. After a brief conversation and an emphatic "NO" on the pro bono part, the sport psychologist imparted to me the why not of that. Simply put, the players have to have skin in the game.


JoeyA


K2Kraze said:
I think you're right - it's the training. The mindset for how to train. What to train. Especially train a team to think, discuss, strategize and conquer. ALL elements are important for a MC style of play with rotating team members. Has anyone thought of having a great sports psychologist / motivator on the team staff as well? Yeah - most personalities could use a little help there as well. Never hurts.

K.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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JoeyA said:
I worked with a couple of Sport Psychologists over the last decade on my own personal game.

A few years ago, I even had the stones to ask one of them if they would consider coaching the USA American Team on their mental game, pro bono. While he said he would be honored to coach the USA Mosconi Cup Team he wouldn't do it for free. After a brief conversation and an emphatic "NO" on the pro bono part, the sport psychologist imparted to me the why not of that. Simply put, the players have to have skin in the game.


JoeyA
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Joe you found that 16 penny nail....

Great idea. Losers get room/board/airfare paid for, and NO prize funds if they loose. Winner takes it all. That works. When I see the Ryder Cup, they All got a dog in that hunt. But when ya loose, you feel like nothing, it's a Bad Beat for sure. The money means Zilch to them, BUT pool players need money, it's tough out there.
 
Island Drive said:
Joe you found that 16 penny nail....

Great idea. Losers get room/board/airfare paid for, and NO prize funds if they loose. Winner takes it all. That works. When I see the Ryder Cup, they All got a dog in that hunt. But when ya loose, you feel like nothing, it's a Bad Beat for sure. The money means Zilch to them, BUT pool players need money, it's tough out there.
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You must be kidding. Participation alone in the Ryder Cup builds a player's brand whether they win or lose, which translates into money, far more money than pool players can even think about. A lot of the most casual of golf fans in America and Europe will watch the Ryder Cup. The Ryder Cup has twenty four millionaires, 12 representing the US and 12 representing Europe. Even the losers win at the Ryder Cup. Not so in a niche sport like pool, in which amateurs as a group care little about the pro game.

In addition, winner takes all events don't fly in pool, because savers are practically a religion in our game, and the players themselves would decide how the money would be divided between winner and loser(s). I don't like it any more than the next guy, but that's the reality in pro pool.
 
The money or the win?

sjm said:
You must be kidding. Participation alone in the Ryder Cup builds a player's brand whether they win or lose, which translates into money, far more money than pool players can even think about. A lot of the most casual of golf fans in America and Europe will watch the Ryder Cup. The Ryder Cup has twenty four millionaires, 12 representing the US and 12 representing Europe. Even the losers win at the Ryder Cup. Not so in a niche sport like pool, in which amateurs as a group care little about the pro game.

In addition, winner takes all events don't fly in pool, because savers are practically a religion in our game, and the players themselves would decide how the money would be divided between winner and loser(s). I don't like it any more than the next guy, but that's the reality in pro pool.
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True....but what is the real truth....what is more important at this point in time to an American player, the money or the win? They still make a pay day losing, that's often greater than most wins of their entire year in match play.

I doubt the Europeans would make savers to the Americans.

I know this will never happen, but ''having skin'' in the game is a powerful motivator for many "American Pros''.

What's really going on, is you SJM ''care'' you were of course upset/annoyed and spoke out....Perfect....I'm not afraid ta take a swing either. But....around my peers in the 60's and on, often the only ''VOICE'' you had, was standing next to them, and since on a ten scale, you could only draw your ball 8 compared to a 10 they let ya know you had little say. It was part of growing up. Now with this keyboard, you SJM have a say, say what? :). Thoughts such as yours and mine at times are heard (wish I was good in sentence as U).

When I was, in my 20's 30's 40's I had little too say because of repercussions. Now that's NO longer true because of internet. Its possible, pool may have more one on one communication with others who don't really know one another than ANY OTHER keyboard group that talks only about one game. Is this even close ta being true?? Are other social groups that are related to one specific game as active on their forum as this Pool Forum?
 
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Guys -

A few of my thoughts.

1.) Winner takes all, jeez. :rolleyes: For you nitwits that think that pool players have any money you are living in fantasy land. It is rare that any of them have a pot to piss in. HOF players of Jay's era are mostly broke, with the rare exception of Nick Varner, Allen Hopkins. I thought I heard the winners got $50K to split amongst them. That is $10K each for the winners....peanuts. The losers got what?

2.) Take a year off, are you crazy? Never happen, even if you could find a sponsor, for maybe 10 to narrow to 5. It would be close to 1 million to fund them for a year, and still have no guarantee of ever doing better.

3.) While JAM and others "poo-poo" tournament players against gambling players. That is two entirely different animals. While Keith is/was one of my favorite players of all time to watch, he wasn’t a tournament player, he jokes that he was bridesmaid many times, but I wouldn’t bet against him in gambling matches. In these short races, there is no "coming back" you have to win all of your breaks and steal one from the other guy. Tournament players face this all the time, and while I might agree that only 9 foot tournaments produce MC points. If you aren’t going to use tournament finishes to determine points and you ONLY use someone's judgement is subjective.

4.) Playing international events? Pool players are broke, I have personally "loaned" money to many pro players to get a one way plane ticket home.

5.) I have no regrets on MC 2016. There is no money in pool, which is killing pool for US players, as well for the sport in general. Let's assume that the team assembled for this is the best group available. If there was any money in it, then there would be better players competing for it.

6.) It isn’t the coaches, and in the "PC" society that we live in that we want to misinterpret a quote and think we have an answer. I think we would be hard pressed to find a better coach than Mark Wilson.

7.) The Pinoy that practices all day into 3" pockets. Please, enough of the Phillipines. Efren, my favorite player of all time, comes to the US to make money, gamble and play in tournaments. Want to take a bunch of players to the Phillipines to "train" , give me break.

8.) John Schmit, arguably the best in the US playing straight pool, doesnt play it and I dont see him going to all of the tournaments. Why? No money, period.

Folks on here are whining more than the Democrats on election night.

Best of rolls to all,

Ken
 
Winner of MC got $20K each and loser took home $10K each.

I think all traveling expenses were paid for by Matchroom.
 
gxman said:
Winner of MC got $20K each and loser took home $10K each.

I think all traveling expenses were paid for by Matchroom.
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So exactly what I said, there wasnt any money in it. And whomever said it should be winner take all....geez.

:rolleyes:

Ken
 
Ken_4fun said:
8.) John Schmit, arguably the best in the US playing straight pool, doesnt play it and I dont see him going to all of the tournaments. Why? No money, period.



Ken
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John is a great straight pool player on his own, but in a competitive setting, there are quite a few players these days I would put above him.
 
BeiberLvr said:
John is a great straight pool player on his own, but in a competitive setting, there are quite a few players these days I would put above him.
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The point was, there isnt any money in John getting better, breaking the magical 526 or anything else.

Ken
 
I would like to see some challenge matches vs Niels Feijen. A good time would be during DCC. For sure he has some gamble in him as he was just recently in the phillipines playing against Biado, Johann Chua, LeeVan, etc. It was streamed on FB.

Race to 100= near 0 pressure, unless its close and theres maybe 10 games left.

Race to 5 at the MC = super intense pressure.

People bag on Shane, but Shaw was just was bad until the last day.

Somehow Niels is almost always rock solid.
 
Geez....I totally agree, but our players need somethin'

Ken_4fun said:
So exactly what I said, there wasnt any money in it. And whomever said it should be winner take all....geez.

:rolleyes:

Ken
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It percolated out of one or two posts, but it's not the real point, more so from what can we do to motivate our US players. ?All expenses paid, and you get 10K for a week, that's the top of the pay scale for ANY event other than the US Open. How about 25K each for 1st and 5K for second. "Those differences could easily put the roar back into the moment?
 
Island Drive said:
It percolated out of one or two posts, but it's not the real point, more so from what can we do to motivate our US players. ?
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That is, as you say, the crux of the matter.

Those who've followed pool for a long time know that Niels was pretty weak at safety play for many years. A few years ago, however, when Alex Lely became the coach of Netherlands pool, he had Niels work very hard to improve his safety play. Alex, whom I'm friends with, told me this in person. Now, Niels is quite proficient defensively and is, arguably, the best player ever at the Mosconi Cup.

Jay Helfert, in this thread, has proposed boot camp type training and the willingness to finance and administer the process. Our players don't address their weakenesses, and that's what has to change.

Motivation for Team USA should start with giving them a clear, cost free, route to improving in their areas of weakness, which will not only help them in December, but year-round. Give them that and they might start to erase the lethargy and ambivalence of recent years.
 
Pro Tour is the Core for our Players

sjm said:
That is, as you say, the crux of the matter.

Those who've followed pool for a long time know that Niels was pretty weak at safety play for many years. A few years ago, however, when Alex Lely became the coach of Netherlands pool, he had Niels work very hard to improve his safety play. Alex, whom I'm friends with, told me this in person. Now, Niels is quite proficient defensively and is, arguably, the best player ever at the Mosconi Cup.

Jay Helfert, in this thread, has proposed boot camp type training and the willingness to finance and administer the process. Our players don't address their weakenesses, and that's what has to change.

Motivation for Team USA should start with giving them a clear, cost free, route to improving in their areas of weakness, which will not only help them in December, but year-round. Give them that and they might start to erase the lethargy and ambivalence of recent years.
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Without good seed, it's difficult to grow a healthy tree. Snooker has that. European mindsets ''got it'' they have allot of old school thinking our fore fathers had. IRONICALLY it where most of us here are from :). Now the teenage European are NOW adults with kids, in 52 states....Using lap tops instead of being around strict parenting and social structure. Interesting how life plays out :)
 
Island Drive said:
Without good seed, it's difficult to grow a healthy tree. Snooker has that. European mindsets ''got it'' they have allot of old school thinking our fore fathers had. IRONICALLY it where most of us here are from :). Now the teenage European are NOW adults with kids, in 52 states....Using lap tops instead of being around strict parenting and social structure. Interesting how life plays out :)
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Interesting post. Well said.
 
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