Skidding balls?

Ken_4fun

Ken_4fun

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is question is for the "mature" players out there. (Didnt say old guys but thought it).

Bob Dickerson is top pro guy from my home town. He has a wealth of knowledge, and to pick up alot from him you have to be around him quite a bit. But a year or so ago, he said that these new balls seem to skid, and years ago, he didnt see it as often, if at all.

I didnt say anything but would like to pose the question to my "experienced" friends here. I wonder if it the Simonis 860 we seem to demand and play on, or actually the balls.

ANY THOUGHTS GUYS?

Ken
 
i have always noticed this happening on newer cloth and with balls that had just been polished more than any other time.
 
Ken_4fun said:
This is question is for the "mature" players out there. (Didnt say old guys but thought it).

Bob Dickerson is top pro guy from my home town. He has a wealth of knowledge, and to pick up alot from him you have to be around him quite a bit. But a year or so ago, he said that these new balls seem to skid, and years ago, he didnt see it as often, if at all.

I didnt say anything but would like to pose the question to my "experienced" friends here. I wonder if it the Simonis 860 we seem to demand and play on, or actually the balls.

ANY THOUGHTS GUYS?

Ken
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It could be dirt on the ball, but I think it's in the stroke. you get older and your stroke gets skiddish.
 
Skidding happens when the balls collide...so I don't really see how the cloth could have any effect. It usually happens when the balls are dirty.
 
nathandumoulin said:
Skidding happens when the balls collide...so I don't really see how the cloth could have any effect. It usually happens when the balls are dirty.
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The reason that they skid, I think, is that the ball simply loses traction. It can be due to chalk on the ball, or any other of a number of reasons. Having said that, the same reasons that worsted wool seems to play better(basically the cloth is slicker and somewhat tighter and thinner) are the same reasons that they are more prone to skidding, imo.
 
nathandumoulin said:
Skidding happens when the balls collide...so I don't really see how the cloth could have any effect. It usually happens when the balls are dirty.
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I agree, I think it is a function of dirt and a slow stroke. I notice that balls that are struck firmly rarely skid. Unfortunately, you have to slow roll balls sometimes to get the proper results.

-don
 
Slow shots, inside english, napless cloth and dirty balls are all the culprits. I've seen it happen to everyone. :sorry:
 
Ironman317 said:
i have always noticed this happening on newer cloth and with balls that had just been polished more than any other time.
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Same thing that I have experienced.

I have heard the pros will talk and sometimes complain about the balls sliding during the first few rounds of a tournament because the cloth is new.
 
Im not mature (just ask my wife) but Ill throw in my .02 anyway.

860 is faster because there is less friction between the cloth and the ball, meaning the its easier for the OB to slide when friction between the CB and OB happens. Dirty balls obviously create more friction.

Bob and I actually talked about the plastic balls. My guess was there are several places that dont use any type of polish when putting them in ball cleaners. My theory is there could be static build up in the balls after going through the machine causing the balls to cling more than normal. I say this because I have seen freshly cleaned balls skid a lot.

Woody
 
faster cloths, cleaner balls, and air conditioning causing less moist conditions.
 
Skidding occurs when the cue ball, with some follow or natural roll, contacts the object ball at just the right angle, with just the right friction, so as to induce the opposite effect on the object ball that we are all familiar with as they touch. That being reverse or draw. Follow on the cue ball puts draw (or reverse roll) on the object ball.

In other words, the cue ball's forward roll, induces a touch of backspin on the Object ball as they touch. As the two balls contact the follow roll on the cue ball and the reversing effect on the object ball keeps them both in contact with each other for a split second longer than would normally be.

As they seem to cling together they roll off their normal cut angle as a pair of kissing balls. This throws them off line in terms of the normal cut.

The inside english adds to this effect because it prevents the cue ball from rolling off the object ball as it passes.

You'll never see cling, or skid if you hit a center ball or a draw stroke or shoot the shot with a touch of outside english. You need to create that gear effect where the object ball gets a touch of backspin from the cue balls forward roll to make them stay together.

Sometimes the effect is so noticeable that the cue ball seems to want to climb up on the object ball, thats because the object ball wants to backup into the cue ball.

When this effect happens on the newer napless cloth, with less resistance, the effect is able to become more noticeable.
 
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3andstop said:
Skidding occurs when the cue ball, with some follow or natural roll, contacts the object ball at just the right angle, with just the right friction, so as to induce the opposite effect on the object ball that we are all familiar with as they touch. That being reverse or draw. Follow on the cue ball puts draw (or reverse roll) on the object ball.
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Agreed, (but I have been taught to call this phenomonom 'cling'). Dirty balls, especially with chalk marks on them (high friction contact) are more prone to cling than are clena polished balls (low friction contact).
 
3andstop said:
Follow on the cue ball puts draw (or reverse roll) on the object ball.

In other words, the cue ball's forward roll, induces a touch of backspin on the Object ball as they touch. As the two balls contact the follow roll on the cue ball and the reversing effect on the object ball keeps them both in contact with each other for a split second longer than would normally be.

.
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This depend entirely upon the angle of approach between the cue ball and the object ball.
 
From my experience, "skidding balls" is usually an excuse from someone who can't admit that they hit the shot bad.
 
3andstop said:
....In other words, the cue ball's forward roll, induces a touch of backspin on the Object ball as they touch. As the two balls contact the follow roll on the cue ball and the reversing effect on the object ball keeps them both in contact with each other for a split second longer than would normally be.
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Sorry, but I think it's unlikely that this is the cause. When the balls collide, it's almost as if it were happening in outer-space - the forces between them are huge compared to anything the cloth can exert. We're talking compression forces ranging into thousands of pounds versus a ball's weight, about a third of a pound.

And the reverse spin put on the object ball should not cause any significant braking during the collision. This is for two reasons. First, the object ball always slides when first struck - it never starts out on a roll. Reverse spin is not special in that respect. Second, even though the OB is driven down into the cloth by ball-ball friction (which can range into several tens of pounds), the contact period is so brief that it barely moves in that direction during this short time (on the order of 0.001 inch). The impression of "clinging" might come from the subsequent surge in cloth friction as the OB continues its plunge. This does retard its departure some, but occurs after impact.

I think Fran Crimi (CCB forum) has offered a plausible explanation for the apparent increased frequency of skid on fresh cloth. If I'm remembering correctly, since the cueball tends not to pick up as much roll on the way to the OB, the chalk mark deposited by the tip doesn't get wiped off as readily or frequently. And as a corollary, players hit a lot more stun-like shots than they intend on, which itself typically produces more throw. Although this is not technically "skid", an unexpected amount of throw might be interpreted as such.

As you indicated, the use of outside english can immunize you.

Just my take.

Jim
 
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Here's my 'little kid math' explanation of skid:


English + Contact between balls = Small amount of throw

English + Contact between balls + Dirt = Increased friction = More throw = Skid




...rocket science, I know. :p
 
"Skid" is just a ball moving without rolling.

If there was zero friction between the ball and the cloth, the ball wouldn't roll at all, it would just skid across the table.
If the ball was square, it wouldn't roll, but just skid.
So, lower friction (newer cloths) increases the possibility of skidding. A rounder ball (Super Pro, Centennial) decreases the possibility of skidding.

Does that sound about right?
 
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