Small turnaround at US open? where are all pool pros?

JAM said:
I'm going to tell it to you like this. I've met hundreds of pool players in my life, some lifelong pool players. Some were tournament soldiers, and others were full-blown road agents. I don't know any of them who have ended up with a satisfying career or lifestyle, with the exception of two. Two out of hundreds.

So my opinion about Shane getting an education or seeking another career outside of pool while he is still young is based on this. The higher they go, the harder they will fall. How they land is what I am talking about.
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But that can happen to anyone with any career if they make bad decisions. Is playing pro pool a good career option? For 99.99% probably not, but then again they could make a decent living with subsidiary income such as giving lessons, working as a house pro, selling themselves to potential investors, etc, etc.

As far as Shane goes, he would be nuts IMO to give up something has worked so hard for and is able to make a good living doing something he loves. But, if it makes him happy to go back to school and have a "normal" career kudos to him. Johnny Archer, Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, Allen Hopkins, Kim Davenport, many of the Euro players are examples of players that have done well because of the game.

I'll give you a personal story. There is a famous player that lives in my area. He has told me numerous times that he really doesn't enjoy the game and wishes he had just had a normal life. So I said, no problem. Go get you a job. I'll help you find a way to get some training in something you are interested in and then help you find work. Nope. Ok then this, you have a great name in the game and could make money without ever hitting another competitive ball. Exhibitions, lessons, etc. Ok sounds great. Here is what you need to do. Nope. Certain pool players don't want to work period. It's a choice just like everybody else. I'm guessing there are millions of people that don't have a satisfying career or lifestyle is my point it's just not pool players.
 
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dardusm said:
But that can happen to anyone with any career if they make bad decisions. Is playing pro pool a good career option? For 99.99% probably not, but then again they could make a decent living with subsidiary income such as giving lessons, working as a house pro, selling themselves to potential investors, etc, etc.

As far as Shane goes, he would be nuts IMO to give up something has worked so hard for and is able to make a good living doing something he loves. But, if it makes him happy to go back to school and have a "normal" career kudos to him. Johnny Archer, Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, Allen Hopkins, Kim Davenport, many of the Euro players are examples of players that have done well because of the game.

I'll give you a personal story. There is a famous player that lives in my area. He has told me numerous times that he really doesn't enjoy the game and wishes he had just had a normal life. So I said, no problem. Go get you a job. I'll help you find a way to get some training in something you are interested in and then help you find work. Nope. Ok then this, you have a great name in the game and could make money without ever hitting another competitive ball. Exhibitions, lessons, etc. Ok sounds great. Here is what you need to do. Nope. Certain pool players don't want to work period. It's a choice just like everybody else. I'm guessing there are millions of people that don't have satisfying career or lifestyle is my point it's just not pool players.
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Talk to Earl sometimes and ask him if he has any regrets devoting his life to pool. You may be surprised as his response. :)
 
JAM said:
Talk to Earl sometimes and ask him if he has any regrets devoting his life to pool. You may be surprised as his response. :)
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Ok talk to Nick Varner and ask him the same question. Not many people that I know don't have some regrets but most happy people I know just understand it's a learning process. Earl's not dead, he can change his stars if he wants. Tell him to do something else, he is still relatively young.
 
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dardusm said:
Ok talk to Nick Varner and ask him the same question.
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Nick Varner and Allen Hopkins both left shooting competitively to go into the industry. Nick Varner, by the way, has a college education. It has helped him in his business today. ;)
 
dardusm said:
But that can happen to anyone with any career if they make bad decisions. Is playing pro pool a good career option? For 99.99% probably not, but then again they could make a decent living with subsidiary income such as giving lessons, working as a house pro, selling themselves to potential investors, etc, etc.

As far as Shane goes, he would be nuts IMO to give up something has worked so hard for and is able to make a good living doing something he loves. But, if it makes him happy to go back to school and have a "normal" career kudos to him. Johnny Archer, Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, Allen Hopkins, Kim Davenport, many of the Euro players are examples of players that have done well because of the game.

I'll give you a personal story. There is a famous player that lives in my area. He has told me numerous times that he really doesn't enjoy the game and wishes he had just had a normal life. So I said, no problem. Go get you a job. I'll help you find a way to get some training in something you are interested in and then help you find work. Nope. Ok then this, you have a great name in the game and could make money without ever hitting another competitive ball. Exhibitions, lessons, etc. Ok sounds great. Here is what you need to do. Nope. Certain pool players don't want to work period. It's a choice just like everybody else. I'm guessing there are millions of people that don't have a satisfying career or lifestyle is my point it's just not pool players.
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That was my point to JAM too.

I think of several including the ones you listed. The ones that came to my mind were Allen Hopkins, Nick Varner, Jeanette Lee, and Johnny Archer to name a few.

I heard that Rempe was pretty much broke, and I dont know much about Kim Davenport. The other one I was thinking about Billy Incardona, he always struck me as a sharp cookie but I dont know that much about him. But I know the ones I noted above have done VERY well for themselves, and if it wasnt for pool I am not sure they would have been successful, but probably they would have found a way.

Ken
 
JAM said:
I'm going to tell it to you like this. I've met hundreds of pool players in my life, some lifelong pool players. Some were tournament soldiers, and others were full-blown road agents. I don't know any of them who have ended up with a satisfying career or lifestyle, with the exception of two. Two out of hundreds.

So my opinion about Shane getting an education or seeking another career outside of pool while he is still young is based on this. The higher they go, the harder they will fall. How they land is what I am talking about.
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Are you counting the Dominguez family as one?
:smile:
 
JAM said:
Nick Varner and Allen Hopkins both left shooting competitively to go into the industry. Nick Varner, by the way, has a college education. It has helped him in his business today. ;)
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I think we actually agree in principle on the same things believe it or not. Your are saying that strictly playing pool is a tough road and hard to make a living. Which I whole heartily agree. But, my argument is that getting a college education and having a "career" isn't necessarily a satisfying life. It's very subjective to each person. I guess I'm a half glass full type of person and others would ***** if they were hung with a new rope :) You can make a career around the game if you want especially if you are a good player, but because of economics it might not just be by playing.
 
I wonder if Efren is happy he chose pool instead the other options ;)

With Orcullo I could wonder the same.

But yes, even Efren says it's hard and recommends going to school, but the point is you have to love it. No one is waiting Tiger Woods lifestyle and only fools think that equals happiness. If you love what you do, you'll be happy. The success is just a side product.

"Man who learns to love his work, doesn't have to work no more"

-Confucius
 
pt109 said:
Are you counting the Dominguez family as one?
:smile:
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Shane's another smart one! He is already investing in real estate. He bought a four-plex two years ago and is in the market for another property now. I agree, he's the exception to the rule.
 
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Marvel said:
I wonder if Efren is happy he chose pool instead the other options ;)

With Orcullo I could wonder the same.

But yes, even Efren says it's hard and recommends going to school, but the point is you have to love it. No one is waiting Tiger Woods lifestyle and only fools think that equals happiness. If you love what you do, you'll be happy. The success is just a side product.

"Man who learns to love his work, doesn't have to work no more"

-Confucius
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Efren and Dennis have created good lives for themselves and their families because of pool. I don't think either of them would have had it any other way.
 
Marvel said:
I wonder if Efren is happy he chose pool instead the other options ;)

With Orcullo I could wonder the same.

But yes, even Efren says it's hard and recommends going to school, but the point is you have to love it. No one is waiting Tiger Woods lifestyle and only fools think that equals happiness. If you love what you do, you'll be happy. The success is just a side product.

"Man who learns to love his work, doesn't have to work no more"

-Confucius
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I think Life chose Efren to play pool, not the other way around.
 
Agreed

dardusm said:
Ding Ding Ding, you have a winner. If there was money to be made in professional pool, then you would have a robust tour. It's just not a good business decision to host an event. The promoters that run tournaments now is because of the love of the game. That's why pro pool is dying in the US. It isn't financially feasible product. BB may or may not have hurt the game in the short run but the real reason is simple, it's the finances just as you stated.

Now with that said, having a vibrant tour can be very beneficial to the game's survival as a sport. It's a chicken and egg type of issue. The industry is reeling which means less money for sponsorship, etc. but by not supporting a viable tour that hurts the branding of the game as a sport. The big picture is to get the demographics of the game/sport changed. There should be a huge marketing push to get kids involved. That's how the game can grow. It will always survive, it's just too great of a game not too.
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Dardusm,
You make a pretty sad point actually. I find it reprehensible that people go willy nilly into any kind of business with the idea that they ....Might....make money. I want to make sure I do and its not out of greed. Its out of necessity. If profits aren't found then success is lost and you see the degrading of the mission.

I hope that the lessons we are learning about the business point us to the direction of finding the profits which grow the game.

I cant see how finding a way to make things work at a local trade show/tournament wouldn't work for the entire Industry.

We all cant throw a Super Billiard Expo or US Open but if we can organize smaller versions of it and make the numbers work, there has to be some good in it for the game and the manufacturers.
 
JAM said:
If you were to live the lifestyle of Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan, two giants in their respective industries, and Shane Van Boening, a giant in his respective industry, the difference would be like night and day.

The pool lifestyle is not conducive to raising a family and having a normal lifestyle.

In case you haven't noticed, most pool players, even when they were once the greatest, die alone and broke. Now, if that's what Shane is hedaing for, I feel bad for him. That's why I'd like to see him get an education or a career -- OUTSIDE OF POOL. Shane Van Boening is a lot of things, but he is not anywhere near the status of Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan, sad to say. Today, Shane is on top of the world. Fast forward 30 years, and you may realize how rewarding the pro pool is compared to pro golf and pro basketball.
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To compare a top pro pool player to Tiger or Jordan is night and day, so why do it?
Perhaps a fairer comparison would be that to a college graduate who has studied to be a Nurse or Engineer?

Now providing that the top pool player has the right people around them, staying away from fast cars, even faster women and Vegas :thumbup: With good investment; then why couldn't they live a very good family orientated lifestyle?
 
Ken_4fun said:
That was my point to JAM too.

I think of several including the ones you listed. The ones that came to my mind were Allen Hopkins, Nick Varner, Jeanette Lee, and Johnny Archer to name a few.

I heard that Rempe was pretty much broke, and I dont know much about Kim Davenport. The other one I was thinking about Billy Incardona, he always struck me as a sharp cookie but I dont know that much about him. But I know the ones I noted above have done VERY well for themselves, and if it wasnt for pool I am not sure they would have been successful, but probably they would have found a way.

Ken
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It might be true about Rempe's situation, I don't know. But he is a hall of famer that has created a brand. It's up to him to figure out a way to monetarily capitalize on it. He could have been doing some of the same things that Varner or Hopkins is doing. I for one would have love to take some lessons from him.

Darryl
 
Hot Topic is back on the front burner

dardusm said:
It might be true about Rempe's situation, I don't know. But he is a hall of famer that has created a brand. It's up to him to figure out a way to monetarily capitalize on it. He could have been doing some of the same things that Varner or Hopkins is doing. I for one would have love to take some lessons from him.

Darryl
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Bump to the top..:cool:
 
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