Some things ive noticed about my game, now that im playing in the APA regularly

R

RunoutalloverU

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You guys notice that if your good enough to run all your balls except one consistently that you have a hard time beating players that are good? I mean I know its obvious that when you run all your balls except for a couple that you have removed all of your opponents obstacles, thus making a run out for a SL 6 or 7 not very difficult.

Im finding that it may be to my advantage if I feel the run out might be difficult to let the other strong player run his balls up to the problem, instead of me doing it. And if he gets a couple of break out shots and wins, well I guess he wins, until I get better at it. Other than that I just need to work on slowing down, and picking my patterns, I get ahead of myself and start to take things for granted. I need to tell myself im not out, until im out. During the IPT I heard Rodney Morris make the same obvervation about his game as well.

And also running up my innings so I stay a low SL is, for me, a two edged sword. Yes it makes it nice when my team puts me up against a 6 or 7. But it plays with me psychologically knowing that I should be a 6 or 7. Almost like I have sandbag remorse and I start to actually make silly mistakes. Mistakes I don't make when gambling even with someone.

These are just some thoughts playing in a new format with a team, and within a handicapp system.
 
I know exactly what you mean; most APAers are not strong finishers.

In other words, they will commit a failed run out over and over and over again.

That's why I'm hardly concerned when I don't make a ball on the break.
 
Defense is just as important as offense. You need to know how to manage the table, and sometimes that means ducking. As for running up innings to hold down your handicap, that is wrong and most on here consider it cheating. If you are playing defense, and your scorekeeper marks it, it doesn't run up innings.
Steve
 
8 ball is run out or defense... Missing the 8 ball or your last balls ----> this is the end ;)
 
pooltchr said:
Defense is just as important as offense. You need to know how to manage the table, and sometimes that means ducking. As for running up innings to hold down your handicap, that is wrong and most on here consider it cheating. If you are playing defense, and your scorekeeper marks it, it doesn't run up innings.
Steve
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Sound advice.

I have been the victim of many a failed run out. I find that it is mental weakness. The run is clear you take an easy shot for granted and either miss or blow position when it's too late to play safe, and it's off to the races for my opponent. I am capable of breaking and running or running the table anytime I walk up to it. I have sound fundamentals and good CB control, it is the mental focus that breaks down at critical times.
The good news is that I understand what is going on and am taking steps to correct it. I am undefeated this session, going rackless against another 4 and beating 2 sl5's where handicap didn't come into play (3-1, and 3-2).

If you can't get out play safe early rather than late. Know that your objective is to get to that safe shot point and then execute it. IMO a good safe shot controls what the other player has to shoot at (ideally he can hit but not pocket a ball) and forces him to shoot in a direction that might break a cluster for you or put you in line to take care of a problem ball. A great safe shot is one that results in a foul and ball in hand for you.

Just because you get ball in hand doesn't mean you have to use it to get out. If you can take ball in hand and run out great, but if you can't use it to play another safe and put a problem ball in a better position. Nothing like turning the screws to someone to raise their frustration level and provide additional advantage.

No need to pad inning either. Play it true, score it true. Let the handicap fall where it may. I have had winning sessions for the last 3. I haven't been moved up. I'd love to be an sl5 and it is one of my goals at the beginning of each session.

Banger
 
DelaWho??? said:
Sound advice.

I am capable of breaking and running or running the table anytime I walk up to it. I have sound fundamentals and good CB control,
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if you play at that level and your only a sl/4 your cheating!
 
A good rule of thumb is that if you see that you can't run out, play safe when you have at least 4 balls left. Less than 4, and your chances go way down of winning that game against a good player.
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Too soon for rep Neil,or I'd send some for this short,but dam powerful post.8B is not about getting out...its about winning....just like anyother pool game.
Running down to one ball is often death....(even at other player is SL5 apa).

There is as much stategy (perhaps more) involved in 8B as there is 9.That often gets over looked because it's very likely the starter game that brand new bangers learn before moving on to more "statigic" games or "tougher" games in their opinions.

AND to the OP...play up to your speed....you will enjoy the league much more if you do.You will match up more honestly and your game will go up,not down.
 
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rlw said:
if you play at that level and your only a sl/4 your cheating!
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The 4's I've seen might be "capable" of a B&R once in blue moon. They definitely don't do it with any consistency.
 
I would definitely use that as strategy and just mark as so that way you don't fall into the sandbagging arena. My problem is with 9ball when I played APA. I got so used to not have to win the game to win my match I killed my finishing game. if I played a 3 or 4 as an 8 I could let them have a 9ball 8-9 times a match and let the weak playr hit the usual dry break. well my tournament playing severely dropped off because my finishing game started lagging in my head.
 
Running out

I was of the era when you went from one end of the table to the other end.
Many players today, try to run all balls at one end first, and fail to see the benefit in their run of leaving a 'safety' ball for shape, so if you miss shape at the other end, you will have the ball to get your run going again.

Any SL6 or above should be able to move the cue ball around, so shooting a ball at the other end and getting shape should not be much of a probelm.

If you get into safety battle, make sure your balls are all around the table, that way you can always hit one of them.

If a runout player, take care of problems or clusters as soon as possible, and reevaluate the runout. I am not a cherry picker, I break out clusters medium to hard (to where the balls will hit a rail and rebound some), and then evaluate whether I have any more problems left to address.

If you can not runout or breakout balls, then tie up your opponents ball(s), it will pretty much guarantee you will get back to the table. Pool is about maintaining 'the advantage' with each trip to the table.

You know your game, make decisions based on probabilities. If you have a 40% shot, but a 80% safety, you shoot the safety, not the shot. And last, but not least, the only way you beat a better player is with defense
because even the best players can not make all their kicks, and thus, will put you in the drivers seat then.
 
The best advice I ever got about the game of 8 ball.

Just because you can make a ball, doesn't mean that you should make that ball.

Or, put another way, sinking a ball might not get you closer to winning the game and in some cases, might make winning impossible.
 
There's an 8-ball saying... don't run seven if you can't run eight! :p

Seriously, I do this all the time. I see the run-out in my mind's eye, but my execution is terrible. The same thing happens when I play straight pool.
 
Shots to help your chances

As previously stated, anything that you can do to deter the run out by your opponent is to your advantage. Here is a few shots that I like to use on the 3 pages below.

These shots come up regularly in the game of 8 ball and when noticed, can be used to your advantage.

Table Page 1 - tying up your opponents ball behind your ball gives you insurance later in the game.

Table Page 2 - take advantage of using another ball to place it in front of one of your opponents.

Table Page 3 - Tying up two of your opponents balls will cause havoc for him later in the game.

Remember, these shots will not totally incapacitate a opponent, nor, will they always insure you of a win. But, when the opportunity arises, they can be used to slow him down and eliminate that easy run for him if you do not accomplish your run. JMO

CueTable Help

 
Practice 9 ball or gamble a little. This will help you to learn when to play safe. I am a horrible shooter, but play extremely intelligent 8 ball. In City Tournament this weekend I played two great run out players, but they can't run out if you don't let them see their balls.

Most weaker/non-gambling players try too hard to run out in one inning. When you are playing you should always play position on one of your first couple shots to eliminate problem balls. Always leave a safety shot if you are breaking up clusters and hoping to have a shot. I don't care if it takes 1 or 100 innings when I'm playing as long as I win.

I love to watch an opponent run out to the last ball and leave no shot. My favorite saying upon coming to the table in this situation is, "I hope you don't expect to ever see that ball again."
 
iba7467 said:
Practice 9 ball or gamble a little. This will help you to learn when to play safe. I am a horrible shooter, but play extremely intelligent 8 ball. In City Tournament this weekend I played two great run out players, but they can't run out if you don't let them see their balls.

Most weaker/non-gambling players try too hard to run out in one inning. When you are playing you should always play position on one of your first couple shots to eliminate problem balls. Always leave a safety shot if you are breaking up clusters and hoping to have a shot. I don't care if it takes 1 or 100 innings when I'm playing as long as I win.

I love to watch an opponent run out to the last ball and leave no shot. My favorite saying upon coming to the table in this situation is, "I hope you don't expect to ever see that ball again."
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I am gonna steal your quote. Rep to ya. I am always looking for good one liners.
 
Running out -

There is an old 8-Ball hustle that goes something like this:

Player - I will spot you five balls, but I get to choose them. Once you make a stripe or solid, and it is established that you have either stripes or solids - I will remove 5 of your balls.

Mark - 5 balls??? You gotta be kidding. I'm in.......

Player - Post up - flip for the break?

There are rare instances where the player can loose in this hustle - but not many, mostly due to black eyes, and broken cues, and such.
 
Well I only gamble and mostly practice 9 foot table 10 ball with tight pockets. I actually find run outs to be eaisier in that game. Because you don't have the tie ups. Also I play a lot of full rack rotation. My reason for the OP was a match I had earlier in the week. I tried to stay an SL 3 but they moved me to a 4. And my team put me up against a 6. I lost the match, and it kind of freaked me out, because im not used to losing on a bar box in 8 ball, even to good players. Our top guy an SL 6 can't beat me, and weve played numerous times, and he got the top shooter in the leauge last year.

The only reason I try to keep my SL low is because that is what my team said I needed to do. So I don't really consider it cheating, just strategy. Think of it as a safety that helps your whole team win. I know this topic has been discussed quite a bit, but I do find a logic flaw with saying if you miss on purpose its cheating, but a safety, which is missing on purpose to help you win, isn't. You would have to explain the difference.
 
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