South West cue forearm / nose bobbing

JE54

JE54

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Do most South West cues have a forearm / nose bobbing problem ?
When you roll the butt (no shaft attached) laying flat on a pool table. And you can see the butt as it's rolled lift up and down at the joint area about maybe 1 or 2 credit card thicknesses, is that a major problem ?
Then attach a shaft and put the butt at the bumper area on the rail and the tip of the shaft on the table and roll the entire cue and the cue moves up and down at the joint area.
Also if the butt is on the table and the shaft is on the rail about 5 inches, you can
see the tip move quite abit.
Is this a major problem ?
Does it significantly lower the value of the cue ?
 
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Sounds like the Forearm is warped.. And yes it is going to affect the value big time.
 
All SW forearms move.
It's the taper they use.
You can't tell if it's straight by rolling it on a table.
There are other ways.
Your SW is just fine.


chris G<------has owned ALOT of them
 
It's called a parabolic taper, and no there isn't anything wrong with your South West cue, as Chris has stated.
 
bogey54311 said:
All SW forearms move.
It's the taper they use.
You can't tell if it's straight by rolling it on a table.
There are other ways.
Your SW is just fine.


chris G<------has owned ALOT of them
Click to expand...

I believe You are right on "
South west has a compound taper OR
a parabolic taper"
cue should be put together and rolled , 1 end on the pool table
the other on the rail...
it will roll just fine.;)
 
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bogey54311 said:
all sw forearms move.
It's the taper they use.
You can't tell if it's straight by rolling it on a table.
There are other ways.
Your sw is just fine.


Chris g<------has owned alot of them
Click to expand...

if you are stating that the joint will be off the table while rolling the cue i understand what you mean.

If you are stating that the joint will touch the table then lift off of table while rolling the cue you have lost me.

Please explain.

Thanks,

SLIM
 
JE54 said:
Do most South West cues have a forearm / nose bobbing problem ?
When you roll the butt (no shaft attached) laying flat on a pool table. And you can see the butt as it's rolled lift up and down at the joint area about maybe 1 or 2 credit card thicknesses, is that a major problem ?
Then attach a shaft and put the butt at the bumper area on the rail and the tip of the shaft on the table and roll the entire cue and the cue moves up and down at the joint area.
Also if the butt is on the table and the shaft is on the rail about 5 inches, you can
the tip move quite abit.
Is this a major problem ?
Does it significantly lower the value of the cue ?
Click to expand...

I had two SW's that rolled perfect with or without the shafts on them. I have also had a few cue's that roll exactly like you are saying and more often than not it wasnt the nose or forearm but the handle. Most people think that when a cue lifts at the joint it is always the forearm but that isnt the case. If anyone has ever had or seen a cue that rolled off and then seen it when it was being fixed you would be suprised. This is obviously more of a wraped cue problem.

How old is the cue you have?
 
Appreciate all the info and help.
This has all transpired since I received the cue at 11:20 today. But I took it and had it put on a lathe at a local cue maker just to be sure and it's running out between the handle and the forearm. I've already been in contact with the seller. Just waiting for instructions on how he wants it shipped back.
 
Not sure where the cue was shipped from and where you are located, but if there is a large variance of temp & esp. humidity, it's not surprising to see a cue that rolls fine look a little out some upon arrival somewhere else. It might be a simple as letting the cue rest and acclimitize to where you are at over the next few weeks. It will most likely go back to where it was at before. You see this in SWs.....it's very common (and we've bought and sold many, many). That said, most do not appear to be out very much, just a touch....it's pretty rare to see one roll 100% dead nuts true (but that's the case with most cues, not just SW). It's almost always where it's moved a touch at the forearm/handle connection (more commonly referred to as A-joint).
 
If you lay a SW butt on the table and push the butt end down the pin end will lift off the table on all of them-It's the taper-rolling is another story that i dont know about.
 
We are both in the midwest and the reason I took it to the local cue maker was after I spoke with Laurie.
I bought it from a very reputable seller here on az and I don't anticipate any problems at all.
 
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You are wrong!!!!

Cues are made out of wood. The forearm is one wood, and the points are another wood (usually). These woods have different properties. Over time, the finish shrinks, and the woods under the finish shrink a little as well. Doesn't matter how well the cuemaker seals it, or how long he ages the wood, it's going to change over time.

Now, if you roll the cue on the table, the variations in the points vs. the forearm, can cause the forearm to rise/fall a little. You normally cannot see this, but when you use a taper in the butt like South West does (and many other fine cuemakers), the effect shows at the joint. If a straight taper is used (by many other fine cuemakers), the joint always contacts the table. Variations in the butt when rolled, shows up along the entire butt. It's not as pronounced, but it can be there without you even being able to see it.

Even if the butt was slightly warped, just remember, the butt is just the handle that shoves the shaft foreward. A butt can be quite warped, and not affect the accuracy of the cue. The only time a slightly warped butt comes into play, is when you're trying to sell it.

--JIM BUSS--
http://www.jimbuss.com
 
This is an interesting thread in my opinion according to some of the information I am reading and most of it I do not agree with.

The Parabolic taper used by Southwest, Omega, Omega DPK, Bender, Ed Young, Billy Webb and many others was invented and designed by David P Kersenbrock and it is based upon a Parabolic Curve. This is without doubt one of the more difficult tapers to master, because it requires the cues forearm to be tapered more than one time.

The main distinction between this taper and either straight or modified straight tapers in the precision in which it must be machined, because unlike a straight taper the front 3 inches of the cue are not touching the table when laid flat. So if you are off on the final forearm taper even one thousand or inch the cue will have a wobble at the cues joint.

This wobble is defective machining and not a warp, however, in my opinion it certainly devalues any cue that has this problem. I have read throughout this thread that this is normal and that all Southwest cues have this wobble and that is not true. If they do they can not be called firsts, and should be sold as seconds. I have seen cues from all the above named cues makers who use this taper, and some have this problem much more frequently than others, but no matter it is a problem and if you are using this type of taper you should insure that your quality control identifies it as such.

Billy Webb has used this taper on his cue for many years, and I sell cues for Billy. He rates cues with this wobble as seconds, and out of 30 or 40 cues I have sold for him there have only been 2 or 3 that ever showed this wobble and they were sold accordingly letting the buyer know that the problem existed.

All I can say here is buyer beware, if a cue using this taper has this problem do not pay full price for it, because if you ever decide to sell it later your customer may want a discount, if you are selling to dealer there is no doubt that they will want a discount.

Some are not going to like my comments here, but they unbiased and true to my knowledge and opinion. I only hope that those buying a cue with this taper design take my words to heart or you may be very disappointed later and then it will be too late.

JIMO
 
Jim Buss,
I don't know who you are saying is wrong, but I did what I explained I did. I'm not a cuemaker so I wanted more knowledgeable opinions. From what I was told from the local cuemaker, who by the way posts on AZ told me it was out at the A joint. I had asked for peoples opinions and I was given quite a few. The bottom line is, at this time the situation has been resolved with the seller.
 
JE54 said:
Jim Buss,
I don't know who you are saying is wrong, but I did what I explained I did. I'm not a cuemaker so I wanted more knowledgeable opinions. From what I was told from the local cuemaker, who by the way posts on AZ told me it was out at the A joint. I had asked for peoples opinions and I was given quite a few. The bottom line is, at this time the situation has been resolved with the seller.
Click to expand...



Trust me on this, Mr. Buss is a very very competent Cue Maker and I say without doubt that his comments were not directed at you. There was a great deal of inaccurate information posted to your thread, and I believe that Jim's comments were directed at that information.

I hope things work out for you, I hope my post above in this thread did not offend you, I was only trying to add some in formation that would help.

Take care
 
manwon said:
This is an interesting thread in my opinion according to some of the information I am reading and most of it I do not agree with.

The Parabolic taper used by Southwest, Omega, Omega DPK, Bender, Ed Young, Billy Webb and many others was invented and designed by David P Kersenbrock and it is based upon a Parabolic Curve. This is without doubt one of the more difficult tapers to master, because it requires the cues forearm to be tapered more than one time.

The main distinction between this taper and either straight or modified straight tapers in the precision in which it must be machined, because unlike a straight taper the front 3 inches of the cue are not touching the table when laid flat. So if you are off on the final forearm taper even one thousand or inch the cue will have a wobble at the cues joint.

This wobble is defective machining and not a warp, however, in my opinion it certainly devalues any cue that has this problem. I have read throughout this thread that this is normal and that all Southwest cues have this wobble and that is not true. If they do they can not be called firsts, and should be sold as seconds. I have seen cues from all the above named cues makers who use this taper, and some have this problem much more frequently than others, but no matter it is a problem and if you are using this type of taper you should insure that your quality control identifies it as such.

Billy Webb has used this taper on his cue for many years, and I sell cues for Billy. He rates cues with this wobble as seconds, and out of 30 or 40 cues I have sold for him there have only been 2 or 3 that ever showed this wobble and they were sold accordingly letting the buyer know that the problem existed.

All I can say here is buyer beware, if a cue using this taper has this problem do not pay full price for it, because if you ever decide to sell it later your customer may want a discount, if you are selling to dealer there is no doubt that they will want a discount.

Some are not going to like my comments here, but they unbiased and true to my knowledge and opinion. I only hope that those buying a cue with this taper design take my words to heart or you may be very disappointed later and then it will be too late.

JIMO
Click to expand...

What size is BW's joint , Craig ?
Is it .835" too ?
 
theanswer to your question is NO
most southwest cues do not roll out
thet are among the finest ever made
is your cue a maple into maple without points
if so it is not the same quality as the others
sold very inexpensively for use by locals only

they are not finished the way the others are
they are however in high demand because they play so good that real players love them

i have seen Laurie refuse to sell to people who are leaving the area,
of course pool players lie and sell for a quick profit

any cue can warp,even the best
and southwest is the best in my opinion

dean
 
Not at all, I just didn't want him or anyone else thinking that I was a knowlegdeable cuemaker. As a matter of fact, I appreciate all the input because it helps anyone that reads it, some insight.
 
I would like to help the people who read this as well
this is a cheap shot at the best cue maker alive
you have been around long enough to know the reputation of southwest cues is second to none
as proof look at the 11 year waiting list

or to me,i will pay anyone who gets a new southwest $200 more than she charges the day you get it


I will also lay odds that it rolls straight

I suspect that everyone on AZ except for a few newbies knows what i am talking about.If this loose talk
scares you call me I will buy your new cue before you open the box
 
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