Southwest-like cues

[KMRUNOUT]

I am surprised no one has mentioned Tom Coker. Poor mans SW IMO.
Tom Coker bought and took the SW cue and cut it right down the center on a band saw and copied SW cue's.
This very common knowledge, if your read his web page .
One of the differences if Tom uses a 3/8x10 pin and not the traditional SW 3/8 x 11
I don't know if SW point are full splice or not but Tom Coker's points are not full splice....
He makes SW style rings, and His cues have a very solid hit to them and he makes non laminated LD shafts.

The cue in the middle is a Varney, the top and bottom cue's are Coker's




Coker cues were also known for his shafts were made from bowling alley lane wood.

I almost mentioned Coker. I hit with a few at the billiards expo. Very stiff hit. I liked them.

KMRUNOUT

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

The way a cue hits

"...couldn't HAVE been..."

Everything I have been reading for years in here is 99 % of the way a cue hits is in the tip ferrule and shaft joint style.

Now because the butt of the cue has a different shape is going to change the hit ?

 

[skins]

Everything I have been reading for years in here is 99 % of the way a cue hits is in the tip ferrule and shaft joint style.

Now because the butt of the cue has a different shape is going to change the hit ?

Uh oh... The can-O-worms has just been opened...:yes:

 

[Sealegs50]

I do not know the certain dates when SW became SW and who was working for Jerry or with Jerry Franklin.
Omega cues and pre omega cues, but I cant help to think they didn't help make SW cues as famous as they are.
I have not ever played with a SW cue....
I have played with a Mike Bender and a DPK. and a few Coker's.

I did get a PM saying that Coker's are thinner then a south west, If any one has a SW and would like to post joint and butt OD's might be nice to know.
Most the Coker's I have measured is 0.836 at the joint........

SW cues were not all built to the same specs. I don’t have measurements at A, B, or C. My 1991 SW cue butt was 1.89” at D and 1.21” at the butt cap. Laurie told me that it was the thinnest cue they had made by that time, but they have made thinner cues since then. My shafts were 13.33 mm at the interface of the melamine ferrule and the shaft with long pro tapers. The cue weighed 19.9 oz and balanced at 18 7/8”. I have played with examples of all of the cues you mentioned (only one DPK). All were fine cues, but I preferred my SW to any of them. Billy Incardona once told me that all SWs play the same. I have played with several, including one of Billy’s, and that has not been my experience. I liked mine quite a bit more and would not have traded for any of them. After buying a Bill Schick cue, the SW did not see much play time. After buying a Gus Szamboti, the SW sat in the case and eventually was sold.

 

[garczar]

Thanks for all the replies guys. A ton of good info. to chew on.

 

[ceebee]

goos cue

Bill,
RICK HOWARD from Florida is my 1st pick...
2nd Is Mike Bender-
both of these guys build some of the best playing cues around,
AND WORKMANSHIP IS ALSO TOP QUALITY ...
I sent you a pm about a sneaky"

Duane... you forgot Guido's Cue & he is a great craftsman.

 

[KRJ]

I have a McDermott C-14 that plays better, to me, than any SW I've ever hit a ball with. To each, their own.

Pretty much. The balls still go in the hole.

My "production" Willie Hoppe Pro Model shoots just fine, it will make any ball that any other cue will make, not bad for a $12 cue Well, maybe not make the same balls as any cue Earl or SVB is currently playing with, but as well as any mere mortal player :wink:

Had a guy from league tell me he was looking to buy a new $1000 cue cause he's playing like crap. He's not a very good player to begin with. I spent 30 minutes helping him with his elbow drop, it's not "perfect" now, but about 80% better than it was, gave him a cube of MC, bought me a beer and off he went.

1/2 of my time: FREE
Cube of MC: $3.50
Beer: $4.50
Results: PRICELESS
Total Savings: $992

That being said, I still LOVE the master cue builders work and style, just gorgeous pieces of art you can play with :grin:

 

[fastone371]

Maybe he said that because he is the one who builds them??

He's building off of that style of cue construction. What you'll get in a Bluegrass is quality woods and components, superior construction, and a longer lifespan from your cue. From what I know, his reputation was built off of his quality and playability.

McDermotts are playable, but will fall apart down the road. They are mass produced. Of course you're not going to see micarta ferrules and crazy birdseye on a McD cue.

I have a D 11 and a D 19 McDermott, 35 years old and still no signs of either cue falling apart.

 

[fastone371]

Everything I have been reading for years in here is 99 % of the way a cue hits is in the tip ferrule and shaft joint style.

Now because the butt of the cue has a different shape is going to change the hit ?

I do not agree with the above statement. I have 2 D series McDermotts. 1 of them I have a G-core shaft on, its a D 19,with an Ebony forearm, I love the way the cue hits. When I put this shaft on my D 11, Maple forearm, it feels completely different even though its the same joint style, size and same tip, ferrule, and shaft.
I also have a Hoppe Titlist and a Schon that I can interchange shafts on. No 2 shafts feel the same on different butts. I would be curious to find out what causes cues to feel different.

 

[gutshot]

Just to clarify the whole Blue Grass-McDermott-Paul Mottey connection...

Richard has said he liked the way McDermott cues played with the flat face, big pin, wood to wood joint. he didn't pattern his cues to play like a McDermott. As for the Mottey reference, Richard liked Paul's cues because of his attention to details in his work. It had nothing to do with how Paul's cues played.

Kelly

 

[qbilder]

I do not agree with the above statement. I have 2 D series McDermotts. 1 of them I have a G-core shaft on, its a D 19,with an Ebony forearm, I love the way the cue hits. When I put this shaft on my D 11, Maple forearm, it feels completely different even though its the same joint style, size and same tip, ferrule, and shaft.
I also have a Hoppe Titlist and a Schon that I can interchange shafts on. No 2 shafts feel the same on different butts. I would be curious to find out what causes cues to feel different.

It's refreshing to see somebody notice things like that. With just a few cues you are able to conclude that there's something going on behind the ferrule. Seems there are so many people who think any ole cue butt will do, that it's the shaft, most notably the tip that make any difference. I have always believed that everything in the cue makes a difference to some degree, and that every major component is equally important. I guess it's for each person to decide for themselves what matters, but to me, there's no denying that the butt of a cue is a huge factor in how it plays.

 

[9Ballr]

Billy Incardona once told me that all SWs play the same. I have played with several, including one of Billy’s, and that has not been my experience.

I liked mine quite a bit more and would not have traded for any of them. After buying a Bill Schick cue, the SW did not see much play time. After buying a Gus Szamboti, the SW sat in the case and eventually was sold.

I can attest to this too. It has also been my experience that SW cues
are far from "all playing the same" that's simply a complete
nonsense and is more the ideal than real life.

I can easily see where you're coming from with the Schick/Szamboti statement.
In my opinion anyone who has a Szamboti does not need a SW.....lol...just my opinion.
But I would also take it one step further and say anyone who has
a cue at about 1000 to 1500 dollars does not need a SW cues.
I just don't feel that much of a difference in them vs those cues.
You can get plane jane Lambros, Black, Jensen, Runde and on and on it goes for those prices.

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

agree

I do not agree with the above statement. I have 2 D series McDermotts. 1 of them I have a G-core shaft on, its a D 19,with an Ebony forearm, I love the way the cue hits. When I put this shaft on my D 11, Maple forearm, it feels completely different even though its the same joint style, size and same tip, ferrule, and shaft.
I also have a Hoppe Titlist and a Schon that I can interchange shafts on. No 2 shafts feel the same on different butts. I would be curious to find out what causes cues to feel different.

I never agreed that the tip and ferrule made up 90 % of the hit and the rest is the shaft.

 

[skins]

It's refreshing to see somebody notice things like that. With just a few cues you are able to conclude that there's something going on behind the ferrule. Seems there are so many people who think any ole cue butt will do, that it's the shaft, most notably the tip that make any difference. I have always believed that everything in the cue makes a difference to some degree, and that every major component is equally important. I guess it's for each person to decide for themselves what matters, but to me, there's no denying that the butt of a cue is a huge factor in how it plays.

Eric, I've been very outspoken about this for a long time. Im surprised your being "refreshed" hasn't happened sooner... I guess I gotta TEXT louder..lol

 

[Shooter08]

You don't qualify!!

Eric, I've been very outspoken about this for a long time. Im surprised your being "refreshed" hasn't happened sooner... I guess I gotta TEXT louder..lol

Skins, pretty sure Eric is giving someone credit that may not know what you already do. If we gave you credit for all the knowledge you impart we would need another site. I look forward to someday chatting with you. Eric is acknowledging someone who has come to a opinion without cue builder experience. I definitely applaud that. I would love to someday own both a cue you designed and a cue Eric built.

 

[SplicedPoints]

I've played with Coker and SW as main players.
They are very different cues.

Coker butts are much thinner. They use weight bolts. The shaft taper is a bit "thicker" feeling. They hit stiffer. They deflect more. Mine is original from 2000 except for tips. They are great players for their cost. I picked up my basic 6 pointer for ~$500 in 2003 with 2 shafts at 90% condition. I believe pricing is similar today.

But last I heard they're not making cues anymore?

 

[saint1]

S.W. Hit

I have only had one Bluegrass and it was the stiffest cue I ever tried. I would agrees that a Bender was closer to a S.W. Also Alex Brick. Even a Tom Coker, although the taper is different they do hit some what similar , very reasonable, and I never tried or heard of one that did not play well. The closest of any or very best in my experience is Jack Madden. I sent him my Frankin in 2009 and he set up his taper bars , or changed them after examining my cue. He stated that he could make me a cue that hits and plays as good if not better than it. And he did this, to this day the finest hitting cue I ever came across, Had him make me a few more after that also.

 

[Trav D]

Rick Howard all the way. Bluegrass cues are a hair of a softer hit than the Howard's and SW cues but Bluegrass are very, very well made and identical hitting for one bluegrass to the next. If you are looking for as close to a SW as you can get def go for a Howard.

 

[pickngrin]

I had two low-end Libra cues that hit like South Wests. I paid $350 for the first one and I loaned it to a friend for several months while Laurie was working on his SW. He thought it hit like his own cue and I wound up selling it to him. I paid $500 for the second one and I still have it. I've heard that there was some connection between David Kersenbrock and Libra cues, maybe that's why they have similar playing characteristics.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Tim Padgett.