Spot shot no rail?

takeitdown said:
Its a drag draw shot where there is just a slight amount of draw/through to spin in the object ball. Transfers energy to object balll and kills cueball.
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Unless is was also a masse, I don't believe the shot is possible if there is still draw on the cue ball when it contacts the object ball because you would have had to have hit the shot far too hard to avoid a rail for the draw to still be on there at contact. Now if the draw wears off and the cue ball starts a natural roll before it gets to the object ball then it would be possible, but unnecessary when you could have just rolled it to begin with. And that is exactly what he was talking about, simply slow rolling the cue ball with a center or high hit. The shot really isn't very hard to do this way IMO, not sure why everybody thinks it is so tough. Try it some time.
 
Poolplaya9 said:
Unless is was also a masse, I don't believe the shot is possible if there is still draw on the cue ball when it contacts the object ball because you would have had to have hit the shot far too hard to avoid a rail for the draw to still be on there at contact. Now if the draw wears off and the cue ball starts a natural roll before it gets to the object ball then it would be possible, but unnecessary when you could have just rolled it to begin with. And that is exactly what he was talking about, simply slow rolling the cue ball with a center or high hit. The shot really isn't very hard to do this way IMO, not sure why everybody thinks it is so tough. Try it some time.
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I agree that there's 0% chance of having draw by the time the CB arrives at the OB in this shot.
But are you saying that draw-draggings the shot, will travel the same distance as simply
hitting with follow in the first place but softer? It seems like the draw drag would still slow down
the cue ball even if the draw wears off, because it hasn't had a chance to convert to full follow.
Just, maybe 3/4ths of a rotation of follow.
 
I'd be interested in seeing how much out from the rail you can put the cue ball and still execute the shot. Is it possible with the cue ball starting right between the center and the rail?

And I wonder where the half ball hit is - I imagine it's with the cue ball somewhere between the rail and one diamond away from the rail.
 
I didn't have much trouble doing this shot on my table either -- using the slow roll method. It's a 9 footer but it's on the slow side. I have a hunch that the slower the table plays the easier the shot is to complete but I'm not entirely positive about that. I'm thinking even having sticky/dirty balls probably makes it a little easier but don't quote me on that. Heck, don't quote me on anything!
 
Treyf123 said:
A few years ago there was quite a bit of action in a pool hall my dad owned a younger player 19 or 20 at the time named Adam Pendley came up to play and ended up betting on that masse spot shot and hit it better than any1 ive ever seen was AMAZING cue ball would stop dead was just awesome
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I saw a teenage Adam torture Mike Fuller @ 5 years ago in a GSBT tourney. He missed 1 makeable shot in a race to 7 on a Diamond BB, 9B. After that, I kinda expected him to rise through the ranks. He had a slightly older brother that could play well also.

I wonder what they're up to now.
 
last I heard he had actually pretty much quit playing idk why he WAS incredible on a big table not sure now.. My dads a pretty decent player and was getting big weight and still couldn't come close was really impressive to watch... They could never get him to play on the bar table said he had never played on one who knows though
 
takeitdown said:
Its a drag draw shot where there is just a slight amount of draw/through to spin in the object ball. Transfers energy to object balll and kills cueball.
Click to expand...
Disagree with this. It doesn't make any sense to me. Why drag draw the ball? And where is the throw coming from?

iusedtoberich said:
I shot it pure top centerball. CB starting position was its front edge behind the line and it's side edge frozen on the cushion.
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Agree with this. The ball has pure roll by the time it hits the object ball. There is no side spin or draw left. So the shot is just an exercise in cutting the ball correctly with the right speed.

As noted by a bunch of people, the pocket speed shot isn't really that tough... [although the masses shot is!].

-td
 
CreeDo said:
I agree that there's 0% chance of having draw by the time the CB arrives at the OB in this shot.
But are you saying that draw-draggings the shot, will travel the same distance as simply
hitting with follow in the first place but softer? It seems like the draw drag would still slow down
the cue ball even if the draw wears off, because it hasn't had a chance to convert to full follow.
Just, maybe 3/4ths of a rotation of follow.
Click to expand...
There is 0% chance the shot can be made with the cue ball doing anything other than rolling forward naturally when it contacts the object ball (unless you masse). The reason for this is that to have the cue ball be in any other state other than full natural roll at contact, you would have had to have hit it hard enough that after contact it is still going to have enough speed left that it is going to hit the rail every single time.

In other words, the only way to avoid hitting the rail (without masse'ing) is to shoot the shot softly, and with a soft shot ALL of your draw or slide or whatever you put on it is long gone before it hits the object ball and it is rolling forward naturally by then. Or to reword it another way, the only way you can prevent having full natural forward roll by the time the cue ball reaches the object ball is to shoot it relatively hard, and if you shoot it relatively hard you are going to hit the rail.

Now what you could do is shoot it still real soft starting off with draw which will just turn into full natural forward roll long before the time it gets there but why would you want to? There is no benefit and in fact it makes the shot tougher. The way to play the shot is to just slow roll it to begin with.
 
BRussell said:
I'd be interested in seeing how much out from the rail you can put the cue ball and still execute the shot. Is it possible with the cue ball starting right between the center and the rail?

And I wonder where the half ball hit is - I imagine it's with the cue ball somewhere between the rail and one diamond away from the rail.
Click to expand...

I've been trying to make the shot with the cue ball halfway between the rail and the center (lined up with the diamond). I haven't made it yet but it seems like it might be possible. Any takers?
 
Yep, me.

How about spot shot with the cueball on the other spot without hitting a rail. No masse

BRussell said:
I've been trying to make the shot with the cue ball halfway between the rail and the center (lined up with the diamond). I haven't made it yet but it seems like it might be possible. Any takers?
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Poolplaya9 said:
There is 0% chance the shot can be made with the cue ball doing anything other than rolling forward naturally when it contacts the object ball (unless you masse). The reason for this is that to have the cue ball be in any other state other than full natural roll at contact, you would have had to have hit it hard enough that after contact it is still going to have enough speed left that it is going to hit the rail every single time. ...
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So this brings up the question: how close does the cue ball have to be to the spotted ball (along the same shot line) so that you can stun the spot shot sending the cue ball straight towards the other corner pocket without a scratch?
 
Bob Jewett said:
So this brings up the question: how close does the cue ball have to be to the spotted ball (along the same shot line) so that you can stun the spot shot sending the cue ball straight towards the other corner pocket without a scratch?
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This one would depend fairly heavily on cloth speed. The faster the cloth, the softer you can hit a draw-drag shot of a given distance and end up with stun at contact. Silicone spray might drastically increase the distance in question.

-Andrew
 
Bob Jewett said:
So this brings up the question: how close does the cue ball have to be to the spotted ball (along the same shot line) so that you can stun the spot shot sending the cue ball straight towards the other corner pocket without a scratch?
Click to expand...

Great question Bob. I don't know the answer and don't have access to a table at the moment but off the top of my head I would guess about 15 inches or so on your average Simonis covered table. I'm also guessing that the cloth/table does make some difference but not as much as many would think. Would love to hear your insight on it.

By the way, I recently referred a student to you (Steve at Google) and he was very happy with your instruction session. Really good guy and eager to learn all he can.
 
Andrew Manning said:
This one would depend fairly heavily on cloth speed. The faster the cloth, the softer you can hit a draw-drag shot of a given distance and end up with stun at contact.
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True, but that faster cloth also means the cue ball travels further after contact for any given speed as well. I could be wrong but I'm guessing the cloth speed doesn't make as much difference as one might initially be inclined to think.
 
Bob Jewett said:
So this brings up the question: how close does the cue ball have to be to the spotted ball (along the same shot line) so that you can stun the spot shot sending the cue ball straight towards the other corner pocket without a scratch?
Click to expand...

For me the answer was half a diamond past the side pocket. Go to 2 min in on the below video when I approach that range. I started close to the OB the first few shots and worked my way backwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjSNjb-tRTc&feature=youtu.be
 
iusedtoberich said:
For me the answer was half a diamond past the side pocket. Go to 2 min in on the below video when I approach that range. I started close to the OB the first few shots and worked my way backwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjSNjb-tRTc&feature=youtu.be
Click to expand...

Thanks for doing the video. I sure wasn't close with my guess on this one. The shot is a much fuller hit than I was seeing in my mind. Would have helped to have been able to at least look at a table I think.
 
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