Stop making new pool games.

Hi pool-a-holics 
I agree in the most points Cleary wrote-
In the last decades some rocket-science professors tried to change rules here and there-and in my opinion some of em destroyed the game. To be innovative is really important- and what Joe Tucker developed is really an interesting game I really enjoy. But it is one of THE VERY RARE EXCEPTIONS imo.
What happened in the past years/decades? Finally the most professional player, who worked on the toughest and most important part in pool (8b, 9b. 10b) …the break, has been kicked in his ass. The people who invested thousands of hours in their break, to be better at it than the other great players had no advantage anymore. In my opinion this is not only a shame, furthermore it s the wrong way. Something like this just happens in pool. In no other game such a bullshit has been done (from what I can remember).
My idea would be, to play longer races on the pro level. The way like it s been played in snooker is the right way in my opinion. You qualify for a *pro-tour* for one year. And there you have to play LONG distances, where the better player will advance. This would also make it easier to talk about sponsoring, advertising etc.- if there would be just *some* big tournaments.
The material also has to improve- too much really bad tables are produced. The pocket sizes must also be set more precise. To play on tables with buckets is joke on a tournament with price-money. But hey- WE, the public, the main players causing something like that. If someone could change something, than just WE on our own.
And the most important: ONE RULE SET, basta!

Just my 2 cents,
Lg
Ingo
 
JohnPT said:
Tried watching bonus ball just now. I saw maybe the first 10 minutes of USA vs Canada and then I couldn't watch anymore. I felt detached from it like I was watching a whole other "sport". I watch streams and have paid for a few matches that I liked when my schedule allowed. But this bonus ball I couldn't watch it and it's free! Not being a hater here I just honestly thought it sucked.

Just because it's a new game does not make it a good game.
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Many many AZer's stated it sucked after 10 minutes of viewing. However all the top players that I have shown the game to, love it. It combines all the great games but more resembles One Pocket with the speed of traditional pool games. I tried watching One Pocket many times and thought it was a dumb game until I actually played the game. I love the game. Bonus Ball is not just a new game, Bonus Ball is well structured game. Strategic game and fun to play. Like all pool games, maybe watching it is not for everyone. Fair call!

Still, truely it is a game that has merit and deserves a good look.

www.playbonusball.com
 
Black-Balled said:
He did...he just wants to play without the math.

"Scrap the math, scrap the softbreak 9ball and 2nd ball 10ball. They make 16balls, use em all and be done with it. 15balls, "9ball" rules. "
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oops, my bad, i never said reading was my strong suit, Sorry:embarrassed2:
 
bigshooter said:
If I were a billionaire I would have a bumper pool tour and make the prizes astronomically high. How entertaining would it be to watch Earl and Dechaine fight it out on a bumper pool table.
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Nick Varner is one hell of a bumper pool player<----not all that surprising, given how he plays. But I have talked with him about it, and he liked it a lot back when Sears(remember them?) sold bumper pool box's back in the 70's into the late 80's as i recall.
 
JohnPT said:
Just because it's a new game does not make it a good game.
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Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner.

Whats the last game to have ANY success on any level since 9 Ball ? (I consider 10 ball a derivative and logical evolution of 9 ball so please dont get all cute on me.)

In the end I guess it really doesnt matter. These games are just one more thing no one will pay attention too. In other words pretty much the status quo for pool in general.
 
vpbb123 said:
Many many AZer's stated it sucked after 10 minutes of viewing. However all the top players that I have shown the game to, love it. It combines all the great games but more resembles One Pocket with the speed of traditional pool games. I tried watching One Pocket many times and thought it was a dumb game until I actually played the game. I love the game. Bonus Ball is not just a new game, Bonus Ball is well structured game. Strategic game and fun to play. Like all pool games, maybe watching it is not for everyone. Fair call!

Still, truely it is a game that has merit and deserves a good look.

www.playbonusball.com
Click to expand...

The same pros that "loved" bonus ball also knew they could make a buck playing it. You could show the pros ANY game with some money behind it and they will "love" it.

I dislike bonusball for various reasons but mostly because ANOTHER new game is just bad for pool in general. Plus, whoever came up with those jersey's is a godamn idiot.
 
vpbb123 said:
When you first heard of my great game of Bonus Ball had been developed, you went out of your way to try and stop progress. You ridiculed it, told people nonsense about it. Fortunately, the top players and the professional players saw merit in my game because they liked the challenge of my game. They liked my concept of a professional league and they like the thought of making some money!
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All the rest in nonsense. It's all about the cash. They don't see merit in the game. They don't play the game. Several of your bonusball players are in NYC. 6 of your league members are in nyc right now. (maybe more, I don't know) and I've yet to see a bonusball game played in a pool room. When I went to Vegas, I went to Pool Sharks & Best Billiards... no bonus ball being played. You're only lying to yourself bud.
 
I didn't read the entire thread, but Ill chime in on what I think the general public would actually watch and be interested in. The game must be 8 ball, (this is what a majority of the people play or have played in their local bar), there has to be a shot clock, no long races, (best 2 out of 3 to keep their attention) and finally the "stakes" have to be huge like poker. Even if that's not the actual amount that they are playing for, for TV purposes it still needs to be something like $5000 or $10000 a game. If the game ever gets big TV exposure with these rules/conditions, they can just send me a monthly royalty check.
 
cleary said:
The same pros that "loved" bonus ball also knew they could make a buck playing it. You could show the pros ANY game with some money behind it and they will "love" it.

I dislike bonusball for various reasons but mostly because ANOTHER new game is just bad for pool in general. Plus, whoever came up with those jersey's is a godamn idiot.
Click to expand...

But how do you really feel?
 
Claims

I don't care how many games people want to invent. I just wish some of them would stop harping about how their new game going to fix pool, and how it's the future of pool, and how if we don't embrace it then we're not supporting pool and don't really care about pool.
 
cleary said:
And I get it. The equipment has evolved into tables with 6 pockets, but since then... they've only changed the rules and added/subtracted balls. I love 9ball/10ball/1pocket. Hell, I love bank pool. But to grow as a professional sport, all things need to be set aside and focus on one game with ONE SET OF RULES.

Poker is the only thing that comes close to what pool does... but by far Hold'em is the post popular and the bread and butter. Every casino has a hold'em game going. It's the game they pushed to the public because it's the easiest to follow and understand. It's also easy by nature and ANYONE feels like they can get lucky and win... sorta like 9ball.
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It seems odd to me that you equate poker to pool and mention that Hold em (a relatively new game) has made poker popular again but you refuse to accept that a new game can do that for pool.

I don't see how it could possibly hurt to have new games. Those that don't cut it will fade away because people wont play them and those that are worthwhile will gain a following.
 
NobodySpecial said:
I don't care how many games people want to invent. I just wish some of them would stop harping about how their new game going to fix pool, and how it's the future of pool, and how if we don't embrace it then we're not supporting pool and don't really care about pool.
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Sweet two pound four ounce baby Jesus YESSSSSS!!!!

If one more half ass game inventor plays the "If you dont support my game no one has ever heard of that I made up in my basement high on glue then YOU ARE WHATS WRONG WITH POOL." card I swear I am gonna start chucking baby ducks into a wood chipper.
 
I don't care if people invent new games, it's the "this new game is going to save pool and make it popular" that drives me nuts.

Bonus Ball: How many people have actually seen it played live in their pool room? How many people have played it? Are playing it? How many pros have you seen playing/practicing it?

I'm in NYC and for me the answer is: zero.
 
JCIN said:
If one more half ass game inventor plays the "If you dont support my game no one has ever heard of that I made up in my basement high on glue then YOU ARE WHATS WRONG WITH POOL." card I swear I am gonna start chucking baby ducks into a wood chipper.
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Blasphemy.
Misuse of adhesives.
Animal abuse.
All in one post.

Someone give this man a medal.
 
JCIN said:
Sweet two pound four ounce baby Jesus YESSSSSS!!!!
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First of all, I love this imprecation!

BrooklynJay said:
I don't care if people invent new games, it's the "this new game is going to save pool and make it popular" that drives me nuts.
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I think you're right. Does pool really need saving, or direct change?

What's wrong with expanding laterally? I don't even think new ideas need to catch on immediately; if they're good ideas then they will persist for a long time.
 
JCIN said:
...Whats the last game to have ANY success on any level since 9 Ball ?...
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How do you define success? I invented what I think is a very good new game called Kulay. Is it successful in terms of fixing pro pool? No, but it wasn't intended to.

I just invented it because I had certain goals in mind (I wanted to play a game harder than 8-ball and 9/10 ball, but easier than 15 ball rotation and 1-pocket). I'm not hearing of anybody on these forums playing it, so it's not successful in that way either.

But I do think it's a great game and it's a fairly tough single rack game. I think, and the people I have gotten to try it locally also think, it's a very good game. I'm guessing that the only people that would run racks regularly are players at - or close to - pro level. And other aspects it has going for it is that it requires creativity and knowing when to play defense and opportunities for plenty of offense depending on the table layout. To me it is a very satisfying game in terms of these aspects. So I think it's very successful on that level - the design of the game itself came out very well, IMO.

But I also agree with the general theme of this thread. It doesn't matter how good or bad the specific game is. Pool is pool and there's not much money in it for the pros, so it languishes. If there were money in it for the pros it would thrive. To get people to watch you have to give them two things. One is to make it exciting by having large pay-outs at stake. And the other is to give them a game they are familiar with, which would be 8-ball.

Fatz
 
Cleary said...All the rest in nonsense. It's all about the cash. They don't see merit in the game. They don't play the game. Several of your bonusball players are in NYC. 6 of your league members are in nyc right now. (maybe more, I don't know) and I've yet to see a bonusball game played in a pool room. When I went to Vegas, I went to Pool Sharks & Best Billiards... no bonus ball being played. You're only lying to yourself bud.

You don't see Rodney Morris practicing Bonus Ball in New York simply because he is desperately trying to find a way to get past second place in the traditional games. I saw him and Stevie Moore and many others practicing Bonus Ball a lot, including greats like Thorsten Holmann and Darren Appleton, just to name a few.

The game is a baby. It took decades for other games to lift off and Bonus Ball is and will be no different so stop with your uneducated rants about why Bonus Ball will never be popular. You may be right but in our neck of the woods, many players are enjoying the game. It's a great game, well structured and fun to play. I made a test league in Winnipeg, Canada that had most of the top players in Winnipeg competing. What happened to the BCA Advanced league that year...cancelled. Bonus Ball is just more challenging. Advanced players like that.

To say that the professionals are dancing puppets that will play anything is an insult! When is the last time you saw any professionals playing anything other games that they can gamble on or make money on? That is what they need to do to eat! The reason Bonus Ball even became a game was because there is a market for a more strategic game. That market is small at this moment. It will continue to grow! I just sent six game sets to Germany, it is even catching on across the globe. Every time you bash Bonus Ball, my game set sales spike. Simply because people also see merit in this game. It may not save pool and no one said it would.

I said it's a really good strategic game that forces you to play fast, think fast, make many tough shots and is fun to play. Check it out if you want to improve your game. This game has the best of all games incorporated into it. Bank Pool, Caroms, One Pocket, Rotation and even some good old Straight pocket. Lovely game!

www.playbonusball.com
 
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