Straight In Shots

AtLarge said:
We had an interesting thread on "throwing" the cue (a "stroke slip" as opposed to a "slip stroke") about 6 years ago: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=109237
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The video in that thread is no longer available but if I'm reading it correctly the OP is advising to try letting go of the cue and dropping it on the table after contacting the cueball.

There's as much ridiculousness in that thread as there is in this one. Opponents don't appreciate your cue rolling around the table hitting balls when they're gambling with you.

As a strictly "practice" routine it's not the worst idea ever to get a person to realize how it feels but then a person should learn to control his cue by catching it at the end of the shot. It's the only civilized thing to do:smile:.

ONB
 
Old Nine Baller said:
The video in that thread is no longer available but if I'm reading it correctly the OP is advising to try letting go of the cue and dropping it on the table after contacting the cueball.

There's as much ridiculousness in that thread as there is in this one. Opponents don't appreciate your cue rolling around the table hitting balls when they're gambling with you.

As a strictly "practice" routine it's not the worst idea ever to get a person to realize how it feels but then a person should learn to control his cue by catching it at the end of the shot. It's the only civilized thing to do:smile:.

ONB
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Yeah, dropping the cue is the extreme of the technique, but apparently some excellent players did it. You'll see there were some dissenters then, too. But the "stroke slip" certainly need not go that far.
 
3andstop said:
I didn't read this entire thread, but I have a suggestion that has helped me with straight in shots as well as some angle shots where the CB is on the rail near a side pocket and you have to pocket a ball softly into a corner when it is say, near the rack area. I have a bad habit of too tight a grip at times on the cue stick.

Straight in shots are very sensitive to ever so tiny a movement of the cue tip at contact. Anyway, try this and play with it for a little while, and see if it isn't a tool to help you gain some measure of confidence with straight in shots.

Of course hold your cue loosely, but, upon coming in contact with the CB on your forward stroke, about 1 inch from the CB, let go of the cue stick almost completely (release your grip, whatever there is of it) and let it balance and continue forward though the CB while riding on the pad of your middle finger only, nothing else. The release is subtle and you don't have to open your hand like you're stretching it out, merely, subtly, release any touch from the butt except your middle finger pad, and smoothly continue to stroke through the cue ball with the inertia of the stroke.

This little change, for me, makes long straight ins much more high percentage. It may or may not work for you but it certainly will eliminate any tiny muscle clenching that may divert that cue tip microscopically and increase precision.

It works well from the rail on long shots also.
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Yeah! I know! Straight in shots ARE very sensitive to ever so tiny a movement of the cue tip at contact. That's why I'm wondering why so many posters are calling the shot easy. I'm not saying these guys don't have great strokes which make them highly proficient at the shot; but the guys calling this easy must have a flawless center ball stroke. A flawless center ball stroke takes many years and many hours to acquire. I figure when you call something easy on these forums, your saying it should be easy for the average AZ poster. That's certainly not the case here.

I call the shot my Achilles heel, but I can make 80% of them using center ball. The only reason DRIVEN missed was because he was firing them so rapidly. If he had taken his time he would have made all of them. As I said, that was an eye- opener for me and I have some work to do.

I'm with Naji. I turned to T.O.I because I had a flaw in my center ball stroke. To those who say, "Ahaa, you'd admitting it. Why couldn't you just fix the flaw in your center ball stroke," I say, you're inferring that a mastery of T.O.I. will yield inferior results than a mastery of a center ball stroke. Nothing could be further from the truth. T.O.I and center ball are equals in producing ball pocketing efficiency. Although my stroke flaws caused me to turn to T.OI., I never stopped working on my center ball hit and working on eliminating the flaws.

T.O.I and center ball are equals in producing ball pocketing efficiency only up to a point; however. Center ball requires much more concentration. When using it in practice my pocketing efficiency begins to diminish after only about 45 minutes. T.O.I. Is a mich more relaxed endeavor. I can practice with it for hours at a time without my skill diminishing.

Then we can add to the mix the 3 part pocket system. I really can't see how any player can look objectively at this and not see the simple common sense involved.

So I can only make 80% of straight in shots using center ball. I must have a flaw in my stroke. The thing is; this fllaw does not effect my T.O.I. one bit, and I use T.O.I on almost everything but straight in shots. Therefore; to all of you who gently chide we who haven't acquired a perfectly straight stroke; I'll work on it. Meanwhile; I believe I'm on the cusp of mastery using T.O.I. I'm pretty good at center ball. I'll take that over a mastery of center ball only.
 
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DTL said:
In this video below, Nic Barrow (renowned snooker coach) advocates the opposite. He says the first movement into the shot (shot line) should be leaning slightly forward with the head/upper body.............."the feet should follow the head vs the head following the feet". Note: Although CTE Pro1 is a different approach to aiming (offset) it promotes the "eyes lead and body follows".

I'm not sure if pool and snooker techniques should be the same, similar, somewhat close or whatever but the fact is that our top 10 American players can't even complete (at snooker) with their non-ranked players (Q-School).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0rMSZfg0Tw
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That particular video was one of the first I have seen from Mr Nic.
and was kind of a "what the heck did I just see" moment.
If a person could get this right the rest should be automatic.

Judging from this vid and the others I have seen from him the last couple days...

"it is like I am in the room there myself"

top shelf all the way.
and I think, know actually, with alignment that perfect, I could hit it eyes closed.
It is going to take a while so as I don't have to think about it, but I will never do it any other way.
I don't walk in like Nic does, but I do get my distance from the cue ball, set my back foot under the line and my eyes just where they need to be on that line and lower my head to its proper place. Eyes never letting go of the line.

Once a person gets that right all one needs is to push the cue through to make the shot.
Push might not be the correct word, but sometimes it feels like a push.

It is no wonder you guys shoot so straight.
again, thx for the link.

steven
 
His Boy Elroy said:
Yeah! I know! Straight in shots ARE very sensitive to ever so tiny a movement of the cue tip at contact. That's why I'm wondering why so many posters are calling the shot easy. I'm not saying these guys don't have great strokes which make them highly proficient at the shot; but the guys calling this easy must have a flawless center ball stroke. A flawless center ball stroke takes many years and many hours to acquire. I figure when you call something easy on these forums, your saying it should be easy for the average AZ poster. That's certainly not the case here.

I call the shot my Achilles heel, but I can make 80% of them using center ball. The only reason DRIVEN missed was because he was firing them so rapidly. If he had taken his time he would have made all of them. As I said, that was an eye- opener for me and I have some work to do.

I'm with Naji. I turned to T.O.I because I had a flaw in my center ball stroke. To those who say, "Ahaa, you'd admitting it. Why couldn't you just fix the flaw in your center ball stroke," I say, you're inferring that a mastery of T.O.I. will yield inferior results than a mastery of a center ball stroke. Nothing could be further from the truth. T.O.I and center ball are equals in producing ball pocketing efficiency. Although my stroke flaws caused me to turn to T.OI., I never stopped working on my center ball hit and working on eliminating the flaws.

T.O.I and center ball are equals in producing ball pocketing efficiency only up to a point; however. Center ball requires much more concentration. When using it in practice my pocketing efficiency begins to diminish after only about 45 minutes. T.O.I. Is a mich more relaxed endeavor. I can practice with it for hours at a time without my skill diminishing.

Then we can add to the mix the 3 part pocket system. I really can't see how any player can look objectively at this and not see the simple common sense involved.

So I can only make 80% of straight in shots using center ball. I must have a flaw in my stroke. The thing is; this fllaw does not effect my T.O.I. one bit, and I use T.O.I on almost everything but straight in shots. Therefore; to all of you who gently chide we who haven't acquired a perfectly straight stroke; I'll work on it. Meanwhile; I believe I'm on the cusp of mastery using T.O.I. I'm pretty good at center ball. I'll take that over a mastery of center ball only.
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The only reason DRIVEN missed was because he was firing them so rapidly.
Elroy said that.

No, not true. I would have missed more if I took more time.
The only reason a person needs time is for thinking,
thinking and shooting don't work.
The mind needs to be still.
steven
 
you create a larger margin of error by changing your "approach angle" to the pocket

I can make this shot.

To answer why I posted it, please read it again and you'll notice that the point is clear. No one can hit the cue ball perfectly straight every time, so it's best to take this into account.

With the TOI technique (or TOO for that matter) you create a larger margin of error by changing your "approach angle" to the pocket (as related to the cue ball / object ball connection). 'The Game is the Teacher'



Neil said:
That perfectly straight in combo- you know as well as anyone else that the only way to make it is with a perfect contact to the cue ball and ob. Your off-set hit has ZERO chance of making it, so why even post what you did?
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One of the most glorious pool nights!

As I said, I had work to do. I started on it last night. I'm learning that many AZer's. make close to 100% of their long, straight in shots. I didn't know that. I make about 80% of them. I find it to be one of toughest shots in all of pool and I'm feeling miffed.

So; I start lining them up and shooting them. Generally, I don't do drills. I just throw 15 balls out and bang 'em in. While doing this, If I miss a long, straight one I'll occasionally line up a second one, but I don't think I've ever shot more than 3 of them in a row.

But I'm now I'm firing one after another and after 5 minutes of this I find I'm making my usual 8 out of 10. So I'm saying to myself, " They're saying a perfectly straight stroke is all that's needed." All that's needed might be too much to ask for in most members of AZ; Most members here, while dedicated to improving their shot - making, also hang out at pool rooms.

While at these pool rooms they've been known to play play pool games with each other. I've also read, that on occasion, they take time off from their playing and actually speak to one another. I, on the other hand, have been suffering for 43 years from obsessive - compulsive pool ball pocketing disorder. I don't play games with others, I don't play 14.1, I only play in my basement, and perfecting the art of pool ball pocketing is my only reason for living.

I'm, therefore, telling myself, "Execute a perfectly straight stroke, dammit!"

So I did! The experience can only be described as PURE NIRVANA!

I came back perfectly straight with the cue...I came forward perfectly straight with it...the cue ball travelled perfectly straight on the shot line...the cue ball hit the object ball perfectly flush....the object ball then travelled perfectly straight into the middle of the pocket.... It was PURE NIRVANA!

After hitting the first one, I didn't want to immediately hit another one. Rather; I more desired to just stand there and savor the moment.

I hit my second one in about thirty seconds after the first. Then I waited another thirty seconds and hit in the third one.....thirty seconds and a fourth one....thirty seconds and a fifth one.....on and on!

I really don't know how many I hit without missing. All I know is I didn't want to go to bed. it was like a drug. I would have been perfectly content to just stand there for the next twelve hours and fire one in every thirty seconds. It felt that good. Practical considerations, however; and the fact that my cloth was accumulating too many ball burns near one pocket, prevented me from furthering my contentment; but GOD! IT WAS WONDERFUL WHILE IT LASTED!

If anyone finds this boastful, then all those posters in this thread who stated that a straight stroke is all that's needed we're also boasting. I 'm obviously not the only one who has acquired proficiency in this stroke.

The reason I'm writing this is because this has been a fascinating thread. Intelligent sounding posters were chiming in with polar opposite views of the long, straight in shot. Just one day ago I thought it to be one of the toughest shots in pool. Today I rarely miss it The posters who said what is needed is a straight stroke were entirely correct. That being said, as I stated in my previous post, executing a perfectly straight stroke is something that one can only acquire after many years and thousands of hours of practice; therefore, it would be inappropriate to possibly insult fine shot makers who haven't that much experience, by calling it "easy."

As for the posters who were wondering if T.O.I. was applicable in executing this shot......C.J. Wiley says no. I understand why now.The pool Gods want us players to shoot the straight in shot with center ball. As a T.O.I. practitioner I'll opine that the straight in shot brings out the beauty in the center ball hit and the cut shot brings out the beauty in a touch of inside hit. On the flip side of that, hitting cut shots with center ball is like walking around with a pebble in your shoe and that goes the same for hitting T.O.I. On a straight in shot.
 
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you'll discover how effective TOI is, if you don't already know.

Remember, in most cases you have to make the straight in shot AND get position on the next ball. This is where TOI does come into play because many times you have to "cheat" the pocket to one side or the other to force the cue ball into position.

TOI is the best way to do this because all you do is SLIGHTLY cue the ball to one side of center or the other (you must know the TOI stroking fundamentals to execute this shot on either side of center). Make sure to accelerate to produce a nice "popping" sound as the object ball pierces the intended side of the pocket.

This means if you want to force the object ball into the left side of the pocket you use "TOI RIGHT" and if you want to force it into the right side of the pocket use "TOI LEFT".

This works like a charm, I suggest everyone set up some straight in shots and experiment with this.....you'll discover how effective TOI is, if you don't already know.

'The TOI is the Teacher'


His Boy Elroy said:
As for the posters who were wondering if T.O.I. was applicable in executing this shot......C.J. Wiley says no. I understand why now.The pool Gods want us players to shoot the straight in shot with center ball. As a T.O.I. practitioner I'll opine that the straight in shot brings out the beauty in the center ball hit and the cut shot brings out the beauty in a touch of inside hit. On the flip side of that, hitting cut shots with center ball is like walking around with a pebble in your shoe and that goes the same for hitting T.O.I. On a straight in shot.
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The azers that say they make them 100% of the time while running 306 have yet to post didley as far as video nor have they posted in the 14.1 forums while on cloud 9..... or actually.. ever.... There is a list for 200 ball runners... I assume virtual pool is not counted..... More or less they are full of shit and 80% on long straight ins in competition is pretty damn stout... IF you have found ways to increase the percentage... Good job.... Try it out under fire... I hope it will hold up....
 
His Boy Elroy said:
[...]

So I did! The experience can only be described as PURE NIRVANA!

I came back perfectly straight with the cue...I came forward perfectly straight with it...the cue ball travelled perfectly straight on the shot line...the cue ball hit the object ball perfectly flush....the object ball then travelled perfectly straight into the middle of the pocket.... It was PURE NIRVANA!

[...]
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Great post.

As someone that also spends a lot of time playing all alone in my basement -- this post really resonated with me. I felt like I could have written it or at the very least I've experienced this very feeling. It's this feeling I always have in mind when I'm explaining my love of pool to someone that just doesn't get it. Sadly, many of my fellow pool players don't get it. For them, it's more about the money.
 
CJ Wiley said:
I can make this shot.

To answer why I posted it, please read it again and you'll notice that the point is clear. No one can hit the cue ball perfectly straight every time, so it's best to take this into account.

With the TOI technique (or TOO for that matter) you create a larger margin of error by changing your "approach angle" to the pocket (as related to the cue ball / object ball connection). 'The Game is the Teacher'
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Your previous post can be read two ways. One, that since the shot is so difficult, you will use toi to miss on purpose and control it. Two, that you can make it using toi.

You don't need toi to miss it and control it. You also are not going to make it using toi. You are now claiming that you use a built in margin of error where there is no practical margin of error. So, any error you do put in is a guaranteed miss.

You also have stated many times that you would never use toi for a straight in shot, yet here, you are claiming that you would use it for a combination straight in shot. Goes against everything you have stated in the past.

I am assuming here that there is a fair amount of separation between the two balls in the combo. Because if you are referring to a straight in both ob balls frozen to each other combo, there are MANY that would bet on it, and very few that would not. Am also assuming that both ob's and cb are not frozen to the rail. Because if they are, there is no way you are making the combo with toi or any other english. (and let's not get into the fact that any off center hit is english, no matter how you want to re-define it to sell your dvd's.)
 
Neil said:
Your previous post can be read two ways. One, that since the shot is so difficult, you will use toi to miss on purpose and control it. Two, that you can make it using toi.

You don't need toi to miss it and control it. You also are not going to make it using toi. You are now claiming that you use a built in margin of error where there is no practical margin of error. So, any error you do put in is a guaranteed miss.

You also have stated many times that you would never use toi for a straight in shot, yet here, you are claiming that you would use it for a combination straight in shot. Goes against everything you have stated in the past.

I am assuming here that there is a fair amount of separation between the two balls in the combo. Because if you are referring to a straight in both ob balls frozen to each other combo, there are MANY that would bet on it, and very few that would not. Am also assuming that both ob's and cb are not frozen to the rail. Because if they are, there is no way you are making the combo with toi or any other english. (and let's not get into the fact that any off center hit is english, no matter how you want to re-define it to sell your dvd's.)
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Blasphemy!!! How dare you suggest such a thing.

Besides, it's so much cooler to give it a cute name, the masses love it:wink:

Let's not even mention either that if you have a straight in shot that's close enough to a pocket so you can cheat the pocket to play position, then it's not really straight in, is it?

ONB
 
any off center hit is english???

So any off center hit is english.......hmmm.....if you say so bud. :wink:

Let's just agree TOI is not for you and leave it at that. 'The Inner Game is the Teacher'




Neil said:
Your previous post can be read two ways. One, that since the shot is so difficult, you will use toi to miss on purpose and control it. Two, that you can make it using toi.

You don't need toi to miss it and control it. You also are not going to make it using toi. You are now claiming that you use a built in margin of error where there is no practical margin of error. So, any error you do put in is a guaranteed miss.

You also have stated many times that you would never use toi for a straight in shot, yet here, you are claiming that you would use it for a combination straight in shot. Goes against everything you have stated in the past.

I am assuming here that there is a fair amount of separation between the two balls in the combo. Because if you are referring to a straight in both ob balls frozen to each other combo, there are MANY that would bet on it, and very few that would not. Am also assuming that both ob's and cb are not frozen to the rail. Because if they are, there is no way you are making the combo with toi or any other english. (and let's not get into the fact that any off center hit is english, no matter how you want to re-define it to sell your dvd's.)
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=Old Nine Baller;4800630Let's not even mention either that if you have a straight in shot that's close enough to a pocket so you can cheat the pocket to play position, then it's not really straight in, is it?ONB
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If it's straight in and you aim slightly to one side or the other on the object ball, you can cheat the pocket. I aim straight at the object ball with a slight tip offset (TOI) and the deflection moves the cue ball and slightly changes my angle.

I only do this when the balls are close to the pocket and I can cheat the pocket. I can estimate the deflection better than I can aiming a degree or two off of center. I can vary the squirt with my speed, also.

Best,
Mike
 
good post Elroy.
It is a very good feeling when you get it just right.

imo there are just two ways to make it. hit it perfect or hit it just about perfect.
in contrast there are about a thousand ways to miss it, and most of those have nothing to do with pool. There could be something physical, maybe a hard day at work, a slight pain somewhere, anything. there could be a thing or two hundred on your mind. There might just be a pebble in ones shoe.
I like that one.

Don't get frustrated if they stop going in from time to time,
the only reason this conversation is taking place is obviously I was having a good day, and saved the video.
I don't think there are 50 people that could say they own this shot.
but I wouldn't bet against it.
People can do amazing things.
steven
 
CJ Wiley said:
So any off center hit is english.......hmmm.....if you say so bud. :wink:

Let's just agree TOI is not for you and leave it at that. 'The Inner Game is the Teacher'
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This has been explained to you numerous times, but either you fail to grasp it, or you just don't care. English means hitting off the vertical center line. Period.

Anytime you hit the cb off the vertical center axis, you will put spin on it. Any time you hit an ob off the vertical center axis, you will put some spin on it, (collision induced spin or CIS) and will also put spin on the cb.

What you are actually doing, is trying to apply the same amount of spin on the cb as will be obtained by CIS, but in the opposite direction. Thereby canceling the CIS and having no spin when coming off the ob.
 
Old Nine Baller said:
Let's not even mention either that if you have a straight in shot that's close enough to a pocket so you can cheat the pocket to play position, then it's not really straight in, is it?

ONB
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Mikjary said:
If it's straight in and you aim slightly to one side or the other on the object ball, you can cheat the pocket. I aim straight at the object ball with a slight tip offset (TOI) and the deflection moves the cue ball and slightly changes my angle.

I only do this when the balls are close to the pocket and I can cheat the pocket. I can estimate the deflection better than I can aiming a degree or two off of center. I can vary the squirt with my speed, also.

Best,
Mike
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Mike,

I believe this is pretty much exactly what I wrote.

P.S. Best to you too.

ONB
 
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