straight pool league
- Thread starter cbi1000
- Start date
I am not a big fan of the handicap system to be used in the above league.
Here is a very long description of our local straight pool league that I sent to Danny Harriman when he was soliciting suggestions for a league. I do like the way that all of our games end at 100 for both players (using negative handicaps for the monster players) - allowing total ball count to be used for breaking ties (players with negative handicaps that do not get out of the hole, get half credit for balls made):
I'm a straight pool fanatic, I'll help however I can.
Our league has been continuously in operation for over 50 years, so at least it works.
Ours is a handicapped league. We have 18 players (9 tables in the poolhall) of varying abilities, playing in a round robin format. Each player will play each other player one time. There is a "position round" halfway through the season, and at the end of the season where you play the person just above or below you in the standings (#1 plays #2, #3 plays #4, etc.), so you will end up playing 1 or 2 opponents twice during the year.. Standings are based on won-loss records (with total # of balls made as the tie-breaker).
The matches are EVERY Thursday night; players join the league for the WHOLE season (not just a few nights here and there). Once you are in the league, you are in until you quit or die (any poor sports are encouraged to quit or we kill them). Make-up games are allowed at any time, but must be made up before the position rounds in the middle and at the end of the season. One of our pro players missed 6 straight weeks, but made up all of those matches in 2 days right before the end of the season. We bend over backwards to make it attractive for the pro players.
All matches are played to 100. The poorer players have higher handicaps. The feeble players who can't run balls at all are in the 50-60 handicap range. The best amateur players are in the 0-10 handicap range. The pro's are in the -70 range (negative 70). If my handicap is 10, and I play a 60 handicap player, you just subtract the 10 from the 60 and I spot him 50 balls. He starts at a score of 50, I start at 0, and we play to 100. If I play a negative handicap player it's a little different. Our best pro's handicap is -70 (negative 70). I would start at my handicap of 10, the pro would start at -70. Therefore I would have to score 90 balls to get to 100, and she would have to score 170 balls to get to 100. She must score at least 70 balls to get up to zero, then another 100 to win. Only her balls after the initial 70 to get out of the hole count towards her total balls for tiebreaking purposes.
With this handicap system, you can mix top pro's with feeble, factory players and STILL have great matches. When these guys need only 40 balls and you need 170, you have to play hard from the very start to beat them; it's a LOT of fun.
The initially handicaps are set by the league director. I agree with Blackjack that 10 racks of Equal Offense would be a great help in setting them initially; you could do it the first night of league, 2 players per table, alternating racks. Our handicaps are changed over a 20 week average, so you would not be able to use our system the first year. Handicaps are skewed a little towards the better players, set about 75% of the true difference. If the better player plays his best, he will usually win; if he slacks off much he will lose. If you set the pro's at about -60 to -80, and the good amateurs around 10, and the hackers at 30 to 50; then you can't go wrong.
The league director has a Handicap Committee to discuss things with; but it runs so well now, that there is never any need for it. If you win a match, they look at how you did 20 weeks ago and adjust up or down. A new league just needs someone like you to be the "dictator". Just set the initial handicaps based on the Equal Offense results. Then adjust the handicaps every week or two. After a year you will know exactly where everyone should be (new players can then just be compared to the ones you know). It's easy, don't be afraid.
There is also a Rules Committee. If any rules clarifications (or god forbid a dispute) come up, then the decision of the Rules Committee member is FINAL (even if it's wrong). There has been one dispute in our league in 5 years (and that troublemaker was OUT of the league at the end of the year).
We each pay $20 membership fee at the beginning of the year. We then pay $5 per week to the league. Everyone takes care of their own table time. There is no pressure to collect every week; because nothing is paid out until the final night. As long as you are paid up at the end of the year, then you will be included in the final payouts. We pay out all 18 places ; no fortunes to be made in this league. The top half players will get all of their fees back and a little more; the bottom players play HARD the last night to improve their positions. There is NO sandbagging in this league as it would only lower your position.
I'm sure I've forgotten something, feel free to call if you have questions. Mark Wilson in Collinsville, IL has a quite different league format and handicap system; he has only 3 tables and shorter games. You might call him if you want another viewpoint. SJM on the AZB forum also has a different straight pool handicapping system (from his NYC straight pool leagues) that is good; but everyone plays to different numbers (a bit confusing), and is based on high runs during competition which makes a LOT of record keeping. Our system requires only recording the final score; I highly recommend this to reduce the paperwork.
Here is a very long description of our local straight pool league that I sent to Danny Harriman when he was soliciting suggestions for a league. I do like the way that all of our games end at 100 for both players (using negative handicaps for the monster players) - allowing total ball count to be used for breaking ties (players with negative handicaps that do not get out of the hole, get half credit for balls made):
I'm a straight pool fanatic, I'll help however I can.
Our league has been continuously in operation for over 50 years, so at least it works.
Ours is a handicapped league. We have 18 players (9 tables in the poolhall) of varying abilities, playing in a round robin format. Each player will play each other player one time. There is a "position round" halfway through the season, and at the end of the season where you play the person just above or below you in the standings (#1 plays #2, #3 plays #4, etc.), so you will end up playing 1 or 2 opponents twice during the year.. Standings are based on won-loss records (with total # of balls made as the tie-breaker).
The matches are EVERY Thursday night; players join the league for the WHOLE season (not just a few nights here and there). Once you are in the league, you are in until you quit or die (any poor sports are encouraged to quit or we kill them). Make-up games are allowed at any time, but must be made up before the position rounds in the middle and at the end of the season. One of our pro players missed 6 straight weeks, but made up all of those matches in 2 days right before the end of the season. We bend over backwards to make it attractive for the pro players.
All matches are played to 100. The poorer players have higher handicaps. The feeble players who can't run balls at all are in the 50-60 handicap range. The best amateur players are in the 0-10 handicap range. The pro's are in the -70 range (negative 70). If my handicap is 10, and I play a 60 handicap player, you just subtract the 10 from the 60 and I spot him 50 balls. He starts at a score of 50, I start at 0, and we play to 100. If I play a negative handicap player it's a little different. Our best pro's handicap is -70 (negative 70). I would start at my handicap of 10, the pro would start at -70. Therefore I would have to score 90 balls to get to 100, and she would have to score 170 balls to get to 100. She must score at least 70 balls to get up to zero, then another 100 to win. Only her balls after the initial 70 to get out of the hole count towards her total balls for tiebreaking purposes.
With this handicap system, you can mix top pro's with feeble, factory players and STILL have great matches. When these guys need only 40 balls and you need 170, you have to play hard from the very start to beat them; it's a LOT of fun.
The initially handicaps are set by the league director. I agree with Blackjack that 10 racks of Equal Offense would be a great help in setting them initially; you could do it the first night of league, 2 players per table, alternating racks. Our handicaps are changed over a 20 week average, so you would not be able to use our system the first year. Handicaps are skewed a little towards the better players, set about 75% of the true difference. If the better player plays his best, he will usually win; if he slacks off much he will lose. If you set the pro's at about -60 to -80, and the good amateurs around 10, and the hackers at 30 to 50; then you can't go wrong.
The league director has a Handicap Committee to discuss things with; but it runs so well now, that there is never any need for it. If you win a match, they look at how you did 20 weeks ago and adjust up or down. A new league just needs someone like you to be the "dictator". Just set the initial handicaps based on the Equal Offense results. Then adjust the handicaps every week or two. After a year you will know exactly where everyone should be (new players can then just be compared to the ones you know). It's easy, don't be afraid.
There is also a Rules Committee. If any rules clarifications (or god forbid a dispute) come up, then the decision of the Rules Committee member is FINAL (even if it's wrong). There has been one dispute in our league in 5 years (and that troublemaker was OUT of the league at the end of the year).
We each pay $20 membership fee at the beginning of the year. We then pay $5 per week to the league. Everyone takes care of their own table time. There is no pressure to collect every week; because nothing is paid out until the final night. As long as you are paid up at the end of the year, then you will be included in the final payouts. We pay out all 18 places ; no fortunes to be made in this league. The top half players will get all of their fees back and a little more; the bottom players play HARD the last night to improve their positions. There is NO sandbagging in this league as it would only lower your position.
I'm sure I've forgotten something, feel free to call if you have questions. Mark Wilson in Collinsville, IL has a quite different league format and handicap system; he has only 3 tables and shorter games. You might call him if you want another viewpoint. SJM on the AZB forum also has a different straight pool handicapping system (from his NYC straight pool leagues) that is good; but everyone plays to different numbers (a bit confusing), and is based on high runs during competition which makes a LOT of record keeping. Our system requires only recording the final score; I highly recommend this to reduce the paperwork.
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There are lots of established straight pool leagues around. I run one in Columbus, Ohio - and we are much better players that that Indy bunch despite them toasting us 7 matches to 1 last spring 
Joking aside, I sent you an email with my contact info, I would be more than happy to share with you how our league works.
Joking aside, I sent you an email with my contact info, I would be more than happy to share with you how our league works.
I prefer the handicapping method we use locally. It guarantees more or less 100% handicaps (which you may not want, but that's your decision), and allows you to adjust the length of each match to the speed/level of the players.cbi1000 said:
It is described in the article at http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2003-06.pdf except that now we are adjusting ratings 3 points for each match won or lost after each week, with new players being adjusted at 6 points per match. This is very, very simple to do and you can keep track on a single sheet of paper for the season.
A table of match charts for various length matches is at http://www.sfbilliards.com/14.1_charts.htm
A previous article about handicapping in general is at http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/1996-12.pdf
S
Scottster
Guest
THe straight pool league I run uses a handicap system predicated off of Bob's System.
Our league uses starting handicaps from 1-400. The handicaps always change and there is no cap (ie) our Highest ranked player has a current handicap of 416, with our lowest at 140.
The last match these 2 players had ended in a 2 ball win 120-13.
If you have any questions I will try and help. PM me your questions and I will do my best to answer them.
Great to hear someone else wanting to promote straight pool.
Our league uses starting handicaps from 1-400. The handicaps always change and there is no cap (ie) our Highest ranked player has a current handicap of 416, with our lowest at 140.
The last match these 2 players had ended in a 2 ball win 120-13.
If you have any questions I will try and help. PM me your questions and I will do my best to answer them.
Great to hear someone else wanting to promote straight pool.
Willie, where do you play in Indy, Chalkies, Executive? Just curious, I live on the East Coast but my folks are in Indy and I'd like to come watch if I'm in town sometime. Been playing in a straight league myself and would like to see how yours runs.Williebetmore said:
cbi1000 said:
CBI,
I think this is the first year for this venture. While I wish them luck; it seems to be an untested handicap system. Since handicaps are the most controversial part of any league I think the jury is still out. In addition, the more money sent to a central organization, the less is distributed to the local players during the regular season.
axejunkie said:
Junk-man,
The straight pool league is at Airport Billiards (near the airport....
). League action is Thursday evenings from October to February. Several pro's play in the league, action can be quite entertaining. Let me know if you are in town.Airport is a fairly crummy place, so other than league night I prefer playing in Betmore's Basement; much nicer place (owner is a personal friend of mine).
cbi1000,
If I am not mistaken, there is already some sort of 14.1 league runnning in your area. Look up Bob Zack, as he wins pretty much anything 14.1 related in the area.. Just show up at the big weekend tourneys in Portland, and ask around for him..
Russ
If I am not mistaken, there is already some sort of 14.1 league runnning in your area. Look up Bob Zack, as he wins pretty much anything 14.1 related in the area.. Just show up at the big weekend tourneys in Portland, and ask around for him..
Russ
CreeDo said:
Creed-man,
Your assessment is a little off....it's about a ton and a half of fun.
There are 3 professional level players in the league at this time, I'll PM you the details.
Check for yourself...
I run two of the leagues here in Tallahassee. The system works well and is easy to understand. The players are having fun and learning a grand old game. It is a win-win situation as far as I can tell. No major problems to speak of as yet.
As far as 14and1.com, Kevin is a phone call away and you can feel free to ask him anything concerning the league. He has plans to hold a "national tournament" for all the people that play.
He has a good system and believe me, I tried to break it. I was concerned about sandbagging, but it can't exist in the format. If you do find something, it gets fixed.
The distribution is 65% for Nationals and 35% for Administration. He is paying the top 8 places. This is the first year and it is looking good so far.
Williebetmore said:
I run two of the leagues here in Tallahassee. The system works well and is easy to understand. The players are having fun and learning a grand old game. It is a win-win situation as far as I can tell. No major problems to speak of as yet.
As far as 14and1.com, Kevin is a phone call away and you can feel free to ask him anything concerning the league. He has plans to hold a "national tournament" for all the people that play.
He has a good system and believe me, I tried to break it. I was concerned about sandbagging, but it can't exist in the format. If you do find something, it gets fixed.
The distribution is 65% for Nationals and 35% for Administration. He is paying the top 8 places. This is the first year and it is looking good so far.