Stretch marks on new Simonis 860 ?

M

mamics

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi All,

Are stretch marks normal following installation of new Simonis 860 cloth ?
If so, will they disappear in time ?
Its only cosmetic - but looks kinda weird. The light seems to reflect off the un-even stretch of the weave / grain of the cloth somehow...
It looks like the cloth is bubbled or not sitting flat / pulled tight enough - but this is not the case - the cloth is sitting nice & flat & is tight.
No glue was used during cloth installtion - just staples.
Thanx
Cheers.
Hmmm - is this the only way to put a picture on here ?
http://s1361.photobucket.com/user/mamics/media/stretch_zps90955b7e.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
 
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Sweeeet - my installer told me they would fade - but he's a bit of a hack so didnt really believe what he said...
(why is he a hack ? He didnt level the 3 slates properly before sealing with bondo was the biggy...
also clothing around the pockets wasnt the best - getting some minor bubbling from loose cloth right in the pocket mouths)

Simonis isnt used all that often here down under (not around where I live anyway) - seems like installing Mitchell 6811 cloth is a very different task to installing Simonis 860.
So I guess I lose for wanting Simonis on my 'American Style' pool table. (Most tables round here are english billiard tables with napped [Mitchell] cloth)
 
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mamics said:
Sweeeet - my installer told me they would fade - but he's a bit of a hack so didnt really believe what he said...
(why is he a hack ? He didnt level the 3 slates properly before sealing with bondo was the biggy...
also clothing around the pockets wasnt the best - getting some minor bubbling from loose cloth right in the pocket mouths)

Simonis isnt used all that often here down under (not around where I live anyway) - seems like installing Mitchell 6811 cloth is a very different task to installing Simonis 860.
So I guess I lose for wanting Simonis on my 'American Style' pool table. (Most tables round here are english billiard tables with napped [Mitchell] cloth)
Click to expand...

Beautiful table mate. Its crazy how hard american tables are to come by in oz.

Where abouts in NSW are you? just incase the name i have to set mine up shortly, is your hack.
 
Those stretch marks are not 'normal'. I have never seen them on any table that is properly installed. Simonis has a video that shows the proper way to install their cloth to avoid all these wrinkles.
 
the tension in the clots isnt even, wasnt pulled right. its a art to be able to pull cloth right, not many guys can, i know 4 that can-in all of america. they will disappear some as the cloth loses its sheen(shininess) but it wont be right, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, i have played on tables like that and its ok, wont ruin it but if should be better.


real nice table too!!!
 
Local

I have a Diamond, when I needed new cloth (860) installed I used the only table mechanic in my area to do it.He used staples and the cloth always had stretch marks along the long rail that looked like arches, it drove me nuts.When I asked him about it I was told it was normal .The stretch marks were always there but not as noticeable as time went on.The last two time I used Diamond mechanics who glued the cloth , not only did the cloth stay nice and tight but there were never any stretch marks.
 
franko said:
I have a Diamond, when I needed new cloth (860) installed I used the only table mechanic in my area to do it.He used staples and the cloth always had stretch marks along the long rail that looked like arches, it drove me nuts.When I asked him about it I was told it was normal .The stretch marks were always there but not as noticeable as time went on.The last two time I used Diamond mechanics who glued the cloth , not only did the cloth stay nice and tight but there were never any stretch marks.
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This is accurate, information, -one thing to add it's possible but difficult to pull a cloth with staples and not get stretch marks. Glue makes it MUCH easier and is the modern solution.


There has been a horrible thread going about Glen RKC, he knows the glue better than anyone in the biz. he is my friend and i dont want to get involved in that thread, but i learned of glue from him, he has taught lots of other table fitters about glue-i think i 10 years staples will be history.


dont get too depressed like its been said they will fade, but the grain of the cloth will still be wrong and can cause the ball to roll off, especially in 1P on delicate shots. i hope you can sort this out, if they left enough cloth on the edges and didnt pull it to tight you might could salvage your cloth. or you spend $300 and change for new cloth and a good fitter to re do it. that is worst case, it will last yu a very long time so 300 aint a ton of $$$ when considering the time.
 
There is a specific technique to avoid this I just had my table done with 860 and the mechanic that I got spoke of it as he was stretching the cloth.

It had to do with tha angle of the stretch, the side of the stretch the staple was placed, and some other things. Admittedly, I wouldn't ever do it myself, so I didn't log all of what he told me in the old memory bank.

Maybe a bit more lighting would lessen the visual.
 
It looks to me like the cloth was stapled on the sides first and then the ends. As Fatboy said the tension is uneven. I'm not an installer but I have done a few tables in my day and have never had them coming out like this.
 
mamics said:
I think I got the hang of it now... :-D
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No, the shadow's are not going to completly fade away, the cloth is not installed correctly which is why you can see the stretch shadows on both sides of the playing surface. Your installer did installed the cloth side to side first, then stretched both ends outsides out, which is what's causing the grain shadows. So, to answer your question...no, the cloth is not installed correctly...sorry:embarrassed2:

Glen
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
Those stretch marks are not 'normal'. I have never seen them on any table that is properly installed. Simonis has a video that shows the proper way to install their cloth to avoid all these wrinkles.
Click to expand...

When installing Simonis by the method shown in the Simonis video you will still get a few stretch lines around the side pockets; and this holds true whether you use glue or staples. The installer of the op's cloth obviously didn't know the Simonis method, which, if he had, would have avoided all the other stretch lines around the table. However, as mentioned by others, the cloth will fade and the stretch marks will not be such a visual problem over time.
 
stretching simonis

i have recovered a few dozen pool tables and understand how the process works, i hired 2 of the local mechanics that do all the bar tables in my area, to do my home table with 360. they started doing the rails like they would do the old rubber backed bar box cloth pulling it as tight as they could.
i made them take the rail apart because the colth is suppose to be VERY slightly pulled on the rails and bed. you do not stretch it like some of the older cloth. when we did the bed, we just layed the cloth on the table and worked out all the wrinkles and with the palm of out hands pushed the cloth to the edge of the slate then stapled it.

i might be wrong, but i was told not to get simois too tight.
 
desi2960 said:
i have recovered a few dozen pool tables and understand how the process works, i hired 2 of the local mechanics that do all the bar tables in my area, to do my home table with 360. they started doing the rails like they would do the old rubber backed bar box cloth pulling it as tight as they could.
i made them take the rail apart because the colth is suppose to be VERY slightly pulled on the rails and bed. you do not stretch it like some of the older cloth. when we did the bed, we just layed the cloth on the table and worked out all the wrinkles and with the palm of out hands pushed the cloth to the edge of the slate then stapled it.

i might be wrong, but i was told not to get simois too tight.
Click to expand...

Someone told you VERY wrong;)
 
desi2960 said:
i have recovered a few dozen pool tables and understand how the process works, i hired 2 of the local mechanics that do all the bar tables in my area, to do my home table with 360. they started doing the rails like they would do the old rubber backed bar box cloth pulling it as tight as they could.
i made them take the rail apart because the colth is suppose to be VERY slightly pulled on the rails and bed. you do not stretch it like some of the older cloth. when we did the bed, we just layed the cloth on the table and worked out all the wrinkles and with the palm of out hands pushed the cloth to the edge of the slate then stapled it.

i might be wrong, but i was told not to get simois too tight.
Click to expand...

-
It's always best to check with the manufacturer of the products if not sure.
http://www.simoniscloth.com/installation
The good thing is that it's on the table really loose with staples, it won't be to hard to make some adjustments.
Hope the best

Rob.M
 
simonis

tells you that the cloth has to be tight, tight and too tight are different things, the installers on my table were stretching the cloth so tight on the rails that you could look down the rail and see ripples in the rubber.
this is the second time i have used simonis on my 4 by 8 brunswick, just smoothing it out with the palms of my hands and a slight tug, works for me.
i believe there was a note in the package with the cloth that warned me about over stretching the cloth.
 
desi2960 said:
tells you that the cloth has to be tight, tight and too tight are different things, the installers on my table were stretching the cloth so tight on the rails that you could look down the rail and see ripples in the rubber.
this is the second time i have used simonis on my 4 by 8 brunswick, just smoothing it out with the palms of my hands and a slight tug, works for me.
i believe there was a note in the package with the cloth that warned me about over stretching the cloth.
Click to expand...

The Sinonis DVDs were made to show step by step how to install their cloth correctly, 100's and 100's of people have bought the DVDs and are now installing the cloth correctly, they're not very much money for the amount of information they hold;)
 
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